Anyone want to talk to me about borderline?

[Crawling]

I was dignosed with bipolar type 1, but my Pyschiatrist thinks I have developed Borderline personality disorder to cope with my bipolar and some of the trauma this has caused. I am feeling a bit scared even more so as I am currently pg he has referred me for 5 months of CBT starting next month, he is very happy with my pg as I am usually clear of bipolar symtoms while pg (obviously of meds ATM) he hopes to deal with any borderline traits while they are not masked by my bipolar.

I was hoping for some good information or advice on borderline personality disorder I dont really know much about this and am very scared and upset to recieve a dual diagnosis.

I also feel angry and upset with myself for not being able to cope and not develop this. I feel so dissapointed in myself now my family have to deal with this too he told me last month but I have been so upset I have ignored it and tried to hope it would go away.

Hi Crawling

Whatever your diagnosis please please remember it is not your fault.

I don't have much time right now but I will come back later when DC in bed.

I have a diagnosis of Borderline so know a bit

PM me if you like and I'll be back later on.

Thank you I am starting to accept slowly

It's a difficult thing to accept, it took me quite a long time. What swung it for me was reading accounts from people with the disorder which I could identify with. One thing to bear in mind though, is that there are different "strains" of BPD so six people in a therapy group, for example, may behave in completely different ways. One thing they will all have in common though, usually, will be feelings of worthlessness and guilt, inability to trust and issues with being criticised. Some people are very emotional, some are withdrawn.
Please be careful with the literature you read though. I read some books, "Walking On Eggshells" comes to mind which made me feel terrible. Some books are geared at partners or family and can be quite cruel blunt. I will try and remember what books were helpful for me.
There are online resources, I'll give you the links at the end.
One other thing I would like to say is that people with BPD aren't just a bundle of neuroses and negative behaviour. Being able to access your emotional side has lots of good points, being a good friend and lover, and parent. Enjoying music, books and films more than "normal people" etc.
In my therapy we use Mentalisation Based Therapy which has been developed for use with people with BPD. Is it worth asking your Psych if anything like that is available?
I could go on for ages more, about what it's like to be a BPD parent, for example. If it reassures you, I can tell you that despite having an emotional mother with what my DD calls "The Feelings Thing" my DD has done extremely well at school, is popular and tells me I'm the best mum in the world . I tell you, without my DCs I dread to think what would have become of me.
If you need any support at this time please feel free to contact me. It can be helpful to know someone with the disorder who doesn't think you're mad, or manipulative, or just a damaged individual.
If I didn't have BPD, I wouldn't be the person I am today and whilst a lot of life is bloody hard, there are definitely good points.
Oh and having a dual diagnosis is extremely common, BPD is often a co-morbid condition as a lot of thinking is warped due to the condition.
You may find that being given your diagnosis is a way out for you from the misery you have been experiencing. And remember, it takes a hell of a lot of strength to get up every day and function, despite your thoughts and feelings, so when it's hard, give yourself a break. You're only human, after all
Hope this helps and I haven't overstepped the mark. Sending you my best wishes, Ghost.

bpdworld
mentalisation based therapy
national institute of mental health
Mind

Thank you very much you are right I often struggle with my emotions I usually try to block them out and hide from them, it is obviously harder to control when on a episode. I direct inward usually and always feel overwhelming guilt even for something I couldn't help which can incapcitate me. I care so much about things but because I care to much I cant help because I get to upset if things go wrong.

Thoose links are wonderful and I know what you mean about books or forums for partners I stumbled across a few about Bipolar which are very cruel and hurtful, people blaiming every fault a person has on the illness even if it is nothing to do with it blaiming a violent partner who is always violent and then saying all bipolars are violent.

I hate labels it feels like no one looks at you like you anymore every emotional outburst you are asked if this is part of your illness like that is all you are. It is good to talk to others who understand thank you very much for your time taken here to help me understand. Thank you so much you have been very kind and helpful

You are very very welcome. Please PM me if you want. I'm happy to fly the flag for BPD. Too much taboo and stigma and it all so unnecessary.
I'll give you one last anecdote which I use to describe what it's like for people with BPD when talking about the disorder to someone who doesn't know much about it.

Imagine you have made a wonderful roast dinner, fluffy, crispy potatoes, perfect chicken, vegetables just right. But then you discover the gravy is lumpy. For someone with BPD that dinner is ruined and nothing anyone can say will convince you otherwise. For me, I 'm getting better and I can see that the gravy is a tiny part of the meal but for me before it would have been a disaster. Typical of the "all or nothing" mentality and black and white thinking.

Good luck, crawler I wish you all the best.

I'm now free of the diagnosis following 3 years intensive "Schema Therapy".

I've written extensively about my experiences under the moniker "SkiHorse" and would be more than happy to answer any questions you might have.

Totally agree about the negative connotations and negativity displayed in books. It paints us all as violent, out of control, manipulative lunatics. I internalised my demons and hurt myself (overeating/smoking/drinking/risky sex/over-spending/self-sabotage), not others!

I will always be a little bit more sensitive than others in some aspects, but I'm free from the misery and I'm a lot better these days at understanding that the actions of others are not indicative of who or what I am. :)

as theres a thread here i hope you dont mind me jumping in and asking a couple of bpd questions? not sure i'd have enough info to start my own thread!

its about my dd

I am another recovered borderline. BPD is hell but there is also hope as symptoms often reduce with age. I would say I haven't met the diagnostic criteria for about 5 years. Like Alpine pony I am a very sensitive person.

Sorry only just came back thanks for replies it is good to hear you are all doing so well. IloveTIFFANY feel free to ask away any answers will probably help me and others reading the thread.

I was diagnosed with BPD and also atypical depression last year. It has been hard to deal with, especially since i live alone; i have good friends and close family but hate asking for help. Am seeing nhs psychologist twice month, am on high dose mood stabilisers + anti ds. The depressive periods are worst; not able to move, make a drink or even toast, not washing cos it's too huge a thing to do. Every 3 wks or so i slide back down - except i pick up at work as it's so busy. But it takes one negative remark and i hate myself so much + want to disappear. Am cutting hours due to fatigue from the meds etc, btw one thing i've found is having a pet (cat) has helped. Even if i don't bother with myself she gets food + water in clean bowls, brushed daily + litter tray emptied after use. She's funny too.
I do also get paranoid, hear things and have vivid dreams which i mix up with reality. The drs aren't bothered tho?
Btw, found that 'eggshells' book - IMO the author is a prejudiced dick.

I don't have BPD or bipolar, just garden-variety clinical depression, but glad to see such a positive thread!

Wishing you all the best, Crawling.

Kallista - if it can be any light at the end of the tunnel at all, I am now totally free from depression and my psych team said I never did have depression as such, just those crushing lows of self-hate and worthlessness.

I'd probably get right on your tits with my positively and happiness. :)

The lows of bpd are hard on an emotional level but I think it was the highs which were more dangerous.

One of the best tricks I learned was to rate my mood with reference to impulsivity, loss of control and general misery/fear/stress. As soon as I hit a 7 there was no way back - I needed intervention. Over 5 it would be 9 before I knew it and my ruby mitts would be in the medicine cabinet. Nought to OD in twenty minutes. :(

I rarely go above a 3 now.

AlpinePony is bpd where you feel up and down at the same time? I am used to doing a scale but the scale seems different, with bipolar 3-5 is ok, but lower than 3 means I am in a bad deppresion and probably self harming/suicidal. Higher than 7 and I am going manic suicide is not likely but death through reckless behaviour is. Can you explain your scale please?

Kallista I have children and like you find your cat helps I have found I am much better since having them. I also dont work right now as it triggers me. Also pyshcotic symtoms can be a part of BPD.

expatinscotland Thank you very much, I hope your depression is on the mend, depression is hard to live with, I get scared about when mine might return .

hi Crawling. Sorry, it was all several years ago now. The BPD swings highs & lows more I suppose like rapid-cycling bipolar, however, the difference is not due to chemical changes sweeping through the brain - just the inability to regulate emotions. So you can be having the time of your life, someone calls you a "fat cow" or you have a row with your mum, or someone says something at work - an external trigger I mean, will make you feel very, very low.

I took anti-depressants and mood-stabilisers to try and stop me veering to either extreme. But of course, and here's the nub, chemicals can't "fix" your emotions. I got to using for example, the Zyprexa, when I knew I was going batshit crazy and about to harm myself - I'd pop a pill and be asleep within 30 minutes and so I couldn't hurt myself. :(

The Zyprexa did of course help with the psychosis - in my case the disassociation. For example, I'd get in the car and I'd sit down and not know how to start the engine. Or I'd be somewhere (near home) and not recognise any of the streets or buildings. Or I'd not know my own name. These episodes (for the best part) lasted only a couple of minutes, but they were mentally exhausting and frightened me.

So, I suppose my scale was more about feeling in control and stress.

When my stress levels are up to 3, everything's hunky-dory. When they're 4 or 5 (difficult day at work, big bill comes in, horse hurts itself type thing) - it's manageable but I need to immediately take stock of the situation. I used to be awfully good at sticking my head in the sand, wheras I need to "fix" the issue right away to preserve my sanity. E.g., if I get a big bill in - no point pretending I didn't and kicking the offending letter under the couch never to be seen again. It needs to be paid.

Even now I get very jittery and uptight if the bills aren't paid IMMEDIATELY.

When my stress levels reached a 6 or 7 then I'd need to call the psych team to talk me down because there was no coming down from 7.

Having animals was an enormous help and I'd dare say quite a few times they stopped me committing hari-kari.

I would not have been a good mum before therapy. I took too many things personally and would fly off the handle. These days I'm much better at distinguishing when something is my fault and when someone else is to blame. I'm much better and saying "you're being a tit, but your behaviour and attitude is no reflection upon me". I'm also able to open up to my boyfriend wheras 10 years ago I think I must've been a psychotic nightmare to live with... mind you, being a psychotic nightmare I didn't attract "decent" men so they probably got what they deserved!

The roots of BPD seem to lie in PTSD of our childhoods. As a child you are not to blame for anything (within reason obviously!) - and the real healing starts (with Schema Therapy at least) when you're able to say "mum, you were fucking horrible and yes, you did abuse/neglect me". But alas, I've seen many BPD women idolise their childhoods when it's blatently not true. It's hard to admit you were abused as a child. Nobody wants to say "yes, I used to go home from school on a friday night and nobody would talk to me until monday morning". NOBODY wants to realise and admit to themselves that they lived like that.

My mum gets sharply told to "fuck off" every time she steps out of line these days. There has been a definite shift in power and she doesn't like it!

But there's also the realisation and acceptance that although my dad wasn't abusive, he was passive - and therefore allowed my mum to be a prize bitch, so I've had to accept that he is a "weak man".

There's plenty on the "Stately Homes" threads about being the children of clueless and abusive parents.

I'm just happy that I know I've broken this cycle of abuse (my parent's parents were shit too) and that my son is loved, cherished and cared for.

But congratulations to all the BPD women here who live as normal lives as is possible - the majority of BPD women end up unfortunately addicts and/or prostitutes. :( So if you're awake and dressed this morning with hot water and a roof over your head you're doing great! :)

I'm another mn bpd person! Don't have a lot of time to post at the moment as I am off to a mn coffee morning! I'm classified "highfunction" bpd as I hold down a pt job and am in a long term stable relationship, but I still suffer badly with depression, splitting, dissociation and negativity. I have posted on here as borderliner but am coming out of the closet! I too have been massively helped by having children but I do get very tired! Will be back later!

Thank you that explains brilliant and in a way you have just explained exactly why I have this diagnosis. My mother suffered severe depression and when I was 6 my dad went to prison for armed robbery. I was always close to my dad and refused to see any wrong on his part, while my dad was inside my mum went out with a pimp. I have blocked most memories of him and the only one I have is he stripped me naked and held me under freezing water, and he was looking after me when I was mauled by a dog and nearly died.

My mum was addmitted to pych care, and I stayed with my nan until my dad got out. My dad was a dealer and a addict but he tried his best to protect me not letiting me see the drugs. At 13 I started going manic (I was manic through most of my teens) and met my first love who was older than me and would rape and abuse me. But again I still loved him and found no blame. When I was 15 my dad had a pychotic episode and tried to kill my mum, the guilt I feel is I stopped him but not out of fear for my mum but because I didnt want him to go back to prison. My mum left him then and my abusive relationship got worse he raped me in order to get me pg. I terminated and had a bad depression, I was hemmoraging but I refused medical help and nearly died. When my vagina was examined it was covered in burn marks (as I had continued abusing myself in the same way my ex had) I was admitted and spent a year in pych care constantly supervised.

But the thing is I dont think it was that bad, it doesnt feel like it happened to me it feels like a story I read. I am in a much better place now, and I am trying to sort things out, I am a good mum and I do everything I can to make sure my DC have a good life and my childen are thriving but I want to get better to make sure I never hurt them. MNET is great for me as it shows me what is normal parenting. I do get angry easy and it takes hours to calm down and sometimes it is over silly things, or I can get easily upset and I constantly fight not to go back to self harming. I am getting there and have a wonderful DP who helps me and since I was 16 I have been much better and I keep getting better all the time.

Getting angry over small things and taking forever to calm down is a BPD trait. Don't beat yourself up about not coping, what you have described is very traumatic. BPD nearly always has it's roots in childhood trauma. I have heard mental illness (when it is to do with trauma) described as a normal reaction to an abnormal situation. I like that idea.

Got more to say, will be back later...

Yes, as ambarth says, your emotions aren't always processed in a "normal" way because emotional development can be halted because of childhood trauma. So in essence it's your five year old self trying to handle situations. E.g., put your five year old in charge of the mortgage and see what happens! No matter what, it's not your fault, your emotional self was not nurtured. All you could do was survive the very best you could and you did a great job!

Thank you that does make sence

I don't do a scale - am finding it hard enough just to do the basics but after the psych explained last week that i have atypical depression it all makes sense.
Because of the bpd, i am very over-sensitive + can take comments literally but that can affect the depression. I read online about the 'atypical depression' bit and i admit the dr is right with that diagnosis. The bpd diagnosis was a shock + v hard to accept. They also think i have OCD which i had as a small child.
I will try to watch out for anymore 'odd' psychotic symptoms.
Re: childhood trauma - my parents were lovely + we were poor but spoilt. No trauma there; only that i was a pretty child + felt awkward with the 'over affectionate' attention from some men. One close male relative would kiss me on the lips, ears + neck but i didnt know it was inappropriate. I don't actually think he did either so it's forgiven. (My psychologist suspects an issue there but its hard to discuss). We are close now, he helps me a lot + i love him to bits + i know he would be devastated to know what i'm saying? Its very awkward + i can still feel uncomfortable, which i feel so guilty about.
The other issue is i had a traumatic birth + epilepsy since i was small. Am on lot of meds but still get petit mal which affects my memory + the epilepsy nurse now thinks i get deja vu.
My aim to improve my job performance is slowly getting better.
Next is to meet a decent man but i have to feel i look perfect first. Have only ever had short flings. Then from reading this thread i know a mood (+ seizure) diary is a good idea - will start today!

Wondered how you are doing Crawling.
I've been signed off as feel overwhelmed by life and not coping with daily tasks - job stress + PMT not helping mood swings or the epilepsy. I know i should cut hours at work.
I was starting to feel odd again - loud and uninhibited or very low, and felt i wanted to just 'stop time'. I wanted to get on a train and go.
Ps how do psychs know if u are bipolar or bpd? Not all my highs + lows have triggers, and my childhood was ok!

Hi kallista, I am sorry you are feeling low I hope you feel better soon and get some help I think it is good for you to take a few days off.

The difference between bipolar and BPD is bipolar is not always present. It has triggers (they just are not explored due to funds) some will send you up some down some Mixed. A depression is a slow decline down then you just keep going, some eventually turn catatonic and with type 1 can have pychosis.

A mania again you will keep getting happier, I will need sex at least 6 times a day, 3 hours sleep, no food I am usually bouncing round like someone on speed I will get aggressive but it is more a desire to fight and it doesnt matter who, I am not angry fighting is fun. I no longer remember they are rules and believe I am above them special, I stay out all night and get irratated easy I will also do very silly dangerous things that I am incapable of doing. Pychotic symtoms are also a type one symtom It must last 1 week.

Hypomania is like mania but milder I sleep 6 hours need sex 3 times a day dont get aggressive but still a bit bouncy make plans talk lots but this feels like me but a happy more confidant me . This must last 4 days.

But then you sort of wake up and are confused as to why you feel this way you are then normal. BPD does not have extreme emotions but no tools to control them BPD is not episodic you always feel ill even if you are currently in control of your emotions. But the mood swings are not as high or low but just as hard because it is constant and you dont realise that your behaviour is wrong, BPD for me is also a self loathing destructive act. (I am sorry if my description is off I am still new to BPD).

I have been good I have had a few mild pychotic symtoms (maybe I am unsure I will ask my doctor) but no mood swings. Sorry for the essay

Thanks. This is what i don't understand - my psych already says i have chronic atypical depression which is true. And i would say i do get hypomanic - my work managers and family have to pull me to one side to calm me
down at times. Then often i feel numb and lose touch with reality.
Learning not to take things personally has helped - before psychology i would want to cut my wrists and feel i shouldn't exist if anyone just criticiszed me or didn't reply to a text! But sometimes there is no trigger to the up / down moods. I like being 'up' - it's like my brain clears and a whole world of possibilities stretches before me.
TBH regular meals and meds on time help but living alone and feeling low make it hard to do. I know i should phone the crisis team but it's embarrassing.

Please ring crisis it is nothing to feel ashamed about I suggest writing down all your symtoms both up and downs and also tell them how you now feel. If you think you think you have a dual diagnosis or a wrong diagnosis tell them they may get a appointment with a pychiatrist. Do you have a supportive family member or friend you can call to sit with you or take to crisis?