Quick Question

[CatFlaps]

If someone is to try and admit themselves into a phsc unit, and they have a good family network, do SS still get involved with the kids? Many thanks

Please???

Didnt want to leave this unanswered but im not quite sure, depends on the circumstances, if SS are involved already then they will probably get involved again but if not then i dont think so unless there is a risk to kids involved.
If it is the main carer of the children that is trying to admit themselves but someone else in the family is going to be caring for them then there shouldnt be a problem but as i say depends on circumstances.
My experience with SS is through my autistic son so its the SS dissability team who i have had dealings with but they would not do this.
Perhaps you could supply a bit more information.

yes they will probably get involved to check on the welfare of the children. The involvement may well be limited to concluding that the children are well cared for, nothing at all to do with taking them away (role of ss in this is not always understood well).

But if you need to go in you need to go in, it's no good struggling along very ill, that will not do your children much good.

Catflaps - there are 2 issues on your OP. You say you are "trying to get yourself admitted to pysch ward" - can you say a little more about this. You have to be severely mentally ill to be admitted and a conslt pyschiatrist has to have reason to believe that this is necessary. Many people are treated at home by the intervention of a crisis team or community psychiatric nurse and the GP. Do you want to be admitted. If you can say more about your illness etc some of us may be able to give advice (though not from a medical point of view) as we are not medics, but there are many MNs who have had/still have mental illness who can offer good advice.

Re Social services - I have 30 years experience as a social worker and team manager in fostering adoption and child protection. If you have responsible adults (relatives) who can care for your children then there is no need for any involvement from SSD, and to be honest I don't think they would be involved, other than as madmouse says just to make sure the children are safe, but they would have to receive a referral from someone and that referral (from a medic) would only be made if they thought your children were unsafe. PLEASE PLEASE believe that IF (and it's a very big IF)they were involved, the last thing they would want to do is remove your children. People don't realise this but social workers and their managers spend a lot of time trying to keep children out of the care system as it is so expensive. They are also incredibly pushed and don't have time sometimes to see children who are at risk. They are not looking for work I can assure you.

So come back if you want to and tell us a little more. Madmouse is right so many MNs suffering mental illness automatically think their children will be taken away. It is a great pity that so many people think social workers are going to jump in and take children into care and that is just not the case. HONESTLY!

Hi, I was in a psych ward for a month. No SS involvement because DH and my mum looked after the kids between them.

HTH

Thanks for your replies it's really appreciated. I am extremerly depressed and am suffering from severe anxiety. I know I am depressed as I suffered from PND but this is much much worse. I have the usual depression symptoms and if it weren't for my amazing daughter I wouldn't be here now. Everyday is a mission and I'm struggling to hold it together. I feel dead inside just empty. My anxiety is out of control, I have major issues with cleanliness and bleach and wash and antibacterial my hands so much they bleed everyday. I have other anxiety where I worry about leaving the house as I worry about what ppl think about me, how I'm perceived. My biggest one is health anxiety. I am 100% convinced I have an illness. I am so so scared I have something terrible. I am always googling and coming up with Awful things. I am too scared to goto the dr incase they say I have something terrible. I constantly think about dying and how it will affect my daughter. I need help and I need it quick, I just want to run and run but I can't and it's killing me. I need to get away, I want to walk into the unit and to be kept in to sort my hell life out. I cannot live my day to day life like this I really can't. The depression and paranoia. I have the drs on Tuesday but that's a 5 min appointment, they won't listen, I need more than cbt and pills. SS aren't or ever have been involved with us. Has anyone else had this health anxiety thing? I'm sorry I am rambling.

Oh catflaps - your anxiety sounds like it is sky high and as you say you sound very depressed. I have suffered 2 severe episodes of depression - one in 1995 and one last year (both times in hospital for 3 months)but haven't yet recovered fromlast one and was discharged in July. I know exactly what you mean by feeling "dead inside just empty" - I am not a medic but it does sound a bit like OCD as well doesn't it, with all the hand wshing etc.

Health anxiety is very common and googling for health problems comes second only to goggling for pornography, so there are an awful lot of people out there like you (and I have has health anxieties too and googled etc) I now will not allow myself to google. You too must keep away from google please.

You say you are scared you have something terrible - well in a way you do - you have anxiety and depression and that to those of us who have suffered it is certainbly a terrible illness, and you are suffering from it right now. The dr will NOT tell you that you have anything else terrible.

Have you been on meds before for dep and anx - if so were they helpful. You say you will have 5 min appt with a dr who doesn't sound sympathetic. You can book a double appointment and tell the receptionist it is private. Write down how you are feeling before the appt in bullet points (quicker to read) like this:

• scared
• empty
• anxious
• keep washing hands
• think I have terrible illness

and whatever symptoms beside that you have. A busy GP is more likely to read a list than this, than a rambling account and it might be helpful for you too.

Have you been in a psych ward - I wouldn't be too quick to want to go in one - they are not always plesant places, can be noisy and a lot of very distressed people with hosp rules and regs. etc. In an event you willonly be admditted if there is a clinical need.

You mention your daughter - is she an adult. I was wondering why you were scared about SSD involvement.
Have you a H or P or any RL support. Try to do some deep breathing, breathe in to a count of 5 and out for longer (to a count o 7 or 9) if you can manage it and you may calm down a little.

I too get horrendously anxious at times and cry and cry and give myself headaches and tension in my shoulders etc. Mental illness is horrid and you have to experience it to understand it. Try to get through hour by hour and keep posting and I'll stay with you xx

Many thanks for your replies, thank you Nina your post has made me feel reassured that someone understands.

I am a lone parent with a beautiful 5 year old who is no trouble at all. I live in a beautiful house in a lovely town. It makes me wonder why I feel this way when I have these amazing things. People in my town see me as a pretty confident woman but that's because I am so so good at masking how I feel and nobody has a clue! I've been on mn for a long time but it has taken me weeks to get the courage to post about how I feel.

I know I have OCD with the hand washing and cleaning it's ridiculous but I cannot help it, the thought of germs worries me! I'm so anxious about my health, as I said that's the main anxiety thing. I constantly have a headache and sore jaw from clenching my teeth it's quite painful. That's not normal is it? I look so so tired so pale so ill, my skin is terrible right now too, is this normal?

My daughter has really saved my life, I'd be long gone of it wasn't for her, she is what keeps me going. I do have family but not close enouh I can confide in them and I have pretty much shut my friends out of my life. I just can't be bothered anymore. With anything. I have zero energy and zero confidence. I just don't want ss involved purely from a pride point of view.

With my pnd I was on Citalopram and then Fluxotine which I went cold turkey on last year so maybe it's my fault, maybe that's the reason why I'm in this mess.

I hope you being in hospital has helped you and you continue to get all the help and support you need. Can I ask how you came to be admitted into hospital? Are you much better now?

I am quite strong as in I won't start drinking etc as I know that won't help me at all. But does that mean I'm not actually depressed because I have that will power?

I'm sorry this seems all me me me! But it's so reassuring to know I'm not alone. I can't thank you enough xx

Hi Catflaps. Glad you found my post helpful. It's a bit difficult sometimes reaching out to strangers on a laptop isn't it, but I think it is realy important that we can support each other, and MN is brill for this. As I have probably said before, you have to have experienced this awful awful illness to understand it, and then it's only partial understanding because everyone's experience of anx/dep is different I think.

I honestly think that going cold turkey on your meds was not a good idea at all and you will undoubtedly have been suffering from withdrawal symptoms which has almost certainly made things worse for you. I wonder why you went cold turkey? Were you feeling better or just a notion that you didn't like taking them?

You ask about my hospital admissions. I had never suffered any MH problems until 1995 when my dearest and closest friend died of ovarian cancer (and no catflap you DON'T have that!)at age 46. We were as close as any sisters, lived near to each other, at school together, teenage yrs together, brought our children up together and worked together. She actually died in Sept 94 and I struggled through till the following Jan (95) and tbh wasn't that bad, of course I cried a lot and missed her but it wsn't until Jan that I started getting symptoms of anx/dep (which I had no idea about as never had them before) I truly thought I was going mad, I was so dizzy I could barely walk and was crying crying crying most of the time, and suicidial thoughts galore. I kept going to the GP but only told him I was dizzy! Anyway a severe episode of depression built up very quickly (in about 3 weeks) and finally my DP took me to GP and told him what was going on and I cried and cried and said I felt like I was disintegrating. He asked if I would go into hospital and I said yes (I would have gone anywhere). Had appt with very nice gentle cons psychiatrist that afternoon and she said I needed to be in hospital. She started me on ADs immediately (the old fashioned tryclic ones) imipramine 150mg and after the first terrible, frightening week when I did nothing but cry I started gradually to pick up a little (as in bits of light appearing in the darkness for an hour or so each day) Thing was no-one else in the ward seemed as bad as I was but there were people in there with psychotic illnesses and other sorts that I knew nothing about, all I knew was they weren't crying like me! Anyway the psych was very caring and told me this was a very nasty illness and I had to take time to get well again and stay on the ward and continue to recover. She never pushed me and said I must not do anything that was an ordeal, and slowly I started going home for the day and then overnight and was eventually discharged (the 3 months included the coming and going from hospital) which is how it work on psych wards. You aren't just discharged like in a gen hospital.

I continued taking the meds for 14 years and was fine, back at work, and never had any thoughts of it returning. Had a bit of counselling about my friend's death but not much and over time the memory faded and I was ok.

Then I started seeing a psychologist as I wanted to come off the meds and each time I had tried, just reducing 25 or 50 mg I had ended up with acute withdrawal symptoms which gave me the same symptoms as the illness, crying, scared, empty etc etc. I also tried coming off with GP supervision and the same thing happened. I then heard about this psychologist who was an expert in helping people come off long term use of meds, so I went to see her. She told me that I must be in control of the plan to reduce and must do it very gradually. At the time I was on 100 mg (I used to forget to take the mid day one while I was busy at work) and was fine on the 100mg. The psychologist said I could safely reduce 25 mg but I was too scared and said I only wanted to reduce 10mg and she said that was fine. SO I reduced 10 mg per month and it took 10 months for me to be off them. I finally finished the meds in July 09 and in Jan 2010 I had another severe episode of anx/dep and would you believe I didn't recognise it this time.

I had had a gut bacterial infection (bit like salmonella) and NO you don't have that either! and was laid low for weeks, Christmas came and went in a haze of feeling physically ill and lifeless and anxious. However the symptoms got worse over the next 3 months and by this time I knew it was anx/dep but didn't want to go back on meds because it had taken me so long to get off them, so struggled on and went back to the psychologist but that didn't help at all and by Easter I was rock bottom and on Sat before Easter Sunday (last yr) my friend took me to A & E as I was in such a state and I saw the crisis team (which was a dr and a CPN) and they said they would refer me to psychiatrist and sent me off with diazepam. By Tuesday after Easter I had stopped eating and drinking, wouldn't getout of bed, was terrified of anything and everything and a conslt psych came out to see me (not a very nice man)asked me lots of Qs while I cried and shook etc etc and said I just wanted to die (which I did) and he said I needed to be in hospital. I went into Older Peoples Ward as I was 66 then (and ward was for over 65's) and most people were in their 80s but I couldn't have cared less I was so ill. However they had closed one of the dementia wards, so patients with this awful illness were being admitted and that was very worrying as they did bizarre things and one man used to come and glare at me right in the face and call me horrible names. I knew he couldn't help it but it scared me all the same. Some of the nurses were ok but some seemed like they couldn't care less to be honest, and no one comforted me when I was upset, but fortunately I had a loving DP and some good women friends who visited me.

I was put backon the imipramine and it did kick in again reasonably quickly but I had some truly terrible days in there. However eventually I started to improve, but this time the psych was trying to rush me out of hospital and the nurses said he rarely admitted anyone as he thought care at home was better. I was very intimidated by him and it was all so different from the first time. Anyway I was discharged after 3 months but didn't really feel that good. However since then I have been fine at times (went for 6 weeks feeling fine shortly after coming out) and thought it was all over but NO, ever since then, I have had many blips/setbacks/bad patches (the medics use all those terms) and it is completely unpredictable. I can go to bed feeling fine and wake feeling like shite. The blips last anything between 3/4 days to 15 days (that was the longest) they vary in intensity too, sometimes they only last part of the day, sometimes all day. Am just comingout of a short (5 days) but dreadful blip (worse one I can recall for ages) so that's it really, sorry it was such a long answer.

I have been seeing a lovely CPN regularly but she is leaving and so she will transfer me to a colleague (but she was so lovely) and the consl psych is coming to see me on Monday and will probably officially discharge me, as I have been on his books since last April. I will tell him about the blips and ask if upping meds will help but don't think they will.

I am going to end this post CatFlap because my laptop has a nasty habit of suddenly losing all the text but will send part 2 in a min!

Catflaps

If you are planning on simply walking into a local psychiatric unit and requesting admission, that will most likely not work. Usually units will not accept self referrals (ie you would need to be referred by a GP), and even after assessment it might not necessarily be thought that you need to be admitted (Im not making any comment on your case with that, just talking about the process by which these things are done).

As NanaNina says, your GP is the best place to start, and handing over a list of your symptoms (and the effect that they are having on your life) may help in giving some focus and structure to your appointment.

Social services would not be involved as a matter of routine, only if someone thought that there was a reason to make a referral to them.

Me again - hope you can see Catflap that coming off meds has to be done gradually, and most of the medics were convinced my dep/anx had returned because I came off them after so long. SO I think you definitely need to be advised by your gp what meds are best to take and do not go cold turkey again! You owe that to yourself and your lovely little girl.

Does your little girl try to parent you,as sometimes this does happen. Presumably you were self medicating by drinking at one point and this is absolutely not the way to go, as it gives you 2 illnesses then - alcohol abuse and dep/anx, ad dep/anx are quite enough on their own to cope with, without adding anything to it. You ask if it means you aren't depressed because you have that will power. NO it certainly does NOT mean you aren't depressed. It means that you have enough resilience in you to not go down this route and enough sense to know that it won't help.

On my worst days I don't want to get out of bed but I have the will power to do it because I know that staying in bed isn't good for me, but it certainly doesn't mean I am not depressed - far fromit.

I think catflap that you may be "over thinking" things a bit and this is very common with depression and anxiety. I know your anxiety is centred around health, but it is the anxiety that is the problem and needs treating. Some people's anxiety centres around thinking one of their loved ones will die, or a car crash has happened - it is the anxiety that is causing the thoughts and with youy it is around imagining you have a terrible illness, but it is the anxiety "talking" to you to make you feel this, so it is the anxiety that needs treating - do you see what I mean?

How were you when you were on the meds.

It's a shame you have shut your friends out of your life. I know how hard it is to keep up friendships when you feel like this and I had an absolute dread of anyone (other than a couple of close friends) seeing me when I am in a state. I was paranoid about it and the way our house is, people who knocked on the door (with glass panels) would see me rush across the hall and up the stairs, but I still did it, so I totally understand you not wanting to go out. You are rock bottom at the mo catflap and you need to get back on those meds and then start to do baby steps - you know tiny little things to start the climb up. Do you have to take and meet your little girl from school by the way?

When you are not so low, could you think of reaching out to one of your friends (you'd surprised how understanding they might be). I have just got an excellent book from Amazon called "Cimbing out of Depression" by Sue Atkinson (she's not a medic or any expert) but she is an expert because she has suffered depression herself and she has given the most amazing definition of depression I have ever heard and I so much of what she says is jumping off the page at me. I think it wouldhelp you too.

Have to go now but will be back later.xx

LAST POST FOR A WHILE!! keep off google other than for Amazon book!

I'm really sorry I'm not in a good place at the mo. I'll post tomorrow. Don't want you to think I'm ignoring you.

No worries catflap............take it steady and come back when you feel up to it. Sorry my posts are so long. I can't cope with MN when I am feeling terrible. Just try to get through 1 hour at a time. N xxx

Hello, Nina your post really touched me you seem a remarkably brave and courageous woman. I'm so sorry you had to go through all you did and I'm glad you are getting through it. Do you have children? How were they through your illness?

I went cold turkey as I was so so happy at the time. It started forgetting to take the meds then just took odd ones until I thought I don't need to bother with this. I didn't really have any withdrawral at all. I haven't drank alcohol in over 12 months but was tempted to get some today but resisted. My daughter does mother me, what does that mean?

I went to the drs today prepared with a list as you suggested. I mentally prepared myself as I was really scared to go, I have been putting it off for a long time. I explained how I feel and read my list to him. I cried and shook and was a complete and utter state. He has made me feel worse now. He didn't ask me one question, he didn't sympathize at all, no understanding. I was beside myself pouring my heart out which was to me, was a huge step, all he said was 'i haven't got time for this I have other patients to see.' Then prescribed me 10mg Cipralex and I was on my way. I feel totally deflated now.x

Its good that you were able to tell the doctor how you were feeling, and have now been given some treatment.
Did the doctor give you an idea of when you should go back to let them know how you are doing with the cipralex?

Nope he didn't say a thing. Couldn't get me out the door fast enough! I'm really sleepy right now, you know like when you goto the loo in the night and nearly fall asleep on the loo, I feel like that right now. Could this be a side effect after taking just one pill 4 hours ago? Thanks again for your replies

There is some information here about cipralex. Drowsiness is a known side effect.
Is there a different GP that you can go back to, if you arent finding this one helpful?

Thank you I'll have a read. There are a few other drs I'll try. He just didn't listen and didn't care. It was like I was an inconvience. I know ssri's take a while to work, I asked for anything to help me with my anxiety in the mean time he just told me to wait.

Hi Catflap - I think the way that dr treated you was absolutely appalling and he deserves to be complained about, but I guess you don't have the emotional stength for that. You must find another gp in the practice who is more human (word of mouth is a good recommendation, or maybe the receptionist could give you a name)otherwise, find out about other practices and change. I feel so angry when I read what you had said - drs are there to help us and they get paid very well for it.

I have never heard of cipralex but will look it up on google, couldn't access the thing eviscarate linked. Have no idea how they do that actually.

I am not particularly brave or courageous catflap - you wouldn't say that if you had heard me crying and moaning to my DP and crying down the phone at one or two of my friends. I do have kids, but thery are grown with families of their own and so have gr/chdrn who I wasn't able to see for months and months and that really upset me and they are all too young to understand what was wrong, so we told them a "bad tummy" - one of the worse things was I had a new little g/dght who I did not see from 3 months old to her first birthday, because I was so ill. On the other hand, I am relieved I don't have young children as so many young mums onhere do and are suffering with depression.

Your little girl parenting you means that she will possibly grow up believing that she must take care of people and may not expect that she has a right to be cared for herself. Don't worry too much about this but if you can, try to be the parent as much as poss and let her be the 5 year old that she is as this will be much more emotionally healthy for you both, now and in the future. Does she have friends round to play, or go to other children's houses - if not she needs to really so that she can be a child, rather than a mommy to her mommy if you see what i mean.

Hope these meds help - let us know how you get on and take care of yourself xx

Oh Nina bless your heart. That must of been so so hard for you. Bet your family are so immesily proud of you for coming through it, despite the dark days you still have.

I'm still upset about the dr. I finally get the courage to tell someone in real life and I'm treated like I'm an inconvience. I really don't want to be here today. I really really don't want to be here right now. I can't stop thinking about it and don't know what to do.

Not at allsurprised you are stll upset about that damn doctor. Have you started taking the meds, I think it's quite a low dose for an SSRI. I think most ADs aremeant to cope with anxiety too, although I am on diazepam for anxiety but I really don't think this is a good idea because they are very addictive. I only take a small dose but want to cut down on them even though I am still having rows of bad days. As you probably know ADs do take time to kick in and I think symptoms can get worse before you get better. However if you are no better in 2 weeks I would definitely go to see another dr in the practice (a woman doctor maybe) although they are sometimes as bad as the men. I have a lovely woman GP who never rushes you, but the trouble is she is so booked up it takes an age to get an appt.
Have you taken ADs before catflap and were they of any help to you. Please try to forget this stupid doctor and try to find one who is more sympathetic. Do you have any RL support - family or friends.

I so so know the feeling of "not wanting to he here anymore" - have written (or scrawled that in my journal) in thick black marker pen so manytimes.

Th trouble is the alternative is too awful to think about as if we do commit suicide, we just pass on the pain to others, and you must must think of your lovely little girl, which I know you do.

Can you say a bit more about your life catflap - was your childhood ok, do you live near your family and are they supportive. Sorry not being nosey but just trying to get a picture of any support that you might have.

Speak soon catflap and sending love inthe meantime N x