Combining fasting with low carb 1

[StuntNun]

This thread is for people who want to combine fasting with a low carbohydrate way of eating such as Low Carb Bootcamp, keto, paleo or primal.

Disclaimer – I am not a health professional – I am relying on my own reading and experience. If you have a relevant health condition then consult your doctor before introducing fasting. For example, people with diabetes or high blood pressure often require medication adjustments if they cut carbs or start fasting. In many conditions, medications must be taken with food which may dictate one or more regular meals per day. If you have had an eating disorder, or tend to be obsessive or controlling about food, then fasting may not be appropriate for you. I’m happy to chat about any of these issues but this thread is not a substitute for professional medical advice.

Why fast?

1. To lose weight
2. For the health benefits (e.g. reducing insulin resistance, triggering cellular repair, lowering inflammation, reducing blood pressure)
3. All of the above!

Types of fasting

1. Intermittent fasting (for example 16:8)
2. Fasting mimicking diet (such as 5:2)
3. Extended fasting (over 24 hours)

I will describe each of these over the next three posts. Most people start out with, or working towards, either 16:8 or 5:2. Before we get started, my top fasting tip is to make sure you have plenty of calorie-free drinks: water, black coffee or tea, green tea or herbal teas. You may need to drink more than usual because you aren’t getting any water from food during your fasting window.

I've done a 20:4 today, 16:8 tomorrow then try a 36 hour fast so eating again Sunday from tomorrow's dinner I find it easier to fast when I'm at home as not using as much mental energy!

25 hours because dinner was late. Steak, mushroom and blue cheese sauce, spinach, turnip/cabbage/cheese/butter bake. No easing myself in gradually! But then I don't think that is necessary after 24 hours.

I've done several 24hr fasts in the past, and a few 36 hour ones (usually as part of a meditation / mindfulness / yoga retreat. I'm planning on doing another 24hr fast on Sunday, that would make 3 this week.

The thing I struggle with mentally is the '5-a-day' mantra. I know that this figure was plucked out of the air (as is much nutritional and food advice) but it's been part of my healthy lifestyle for 20 years. When I'm doing occasional fasts I am fine with it because I know that everything will balance out over the rest of the month, but there's something making me anxious about doing this 3 times per week, because logic says that must diminish the amount and range of veg that I'm eating.

Somehow I need to make my peace with this myth and know that overall my diet is full of a range of veg, of all colours, and that this is OK.

Venus the whole five-a-day thing is a complete myth dreamt up by advertising execs. Remember when they decided five wasn't enough and you had to eat seven-a-day? And then I'm sure someone else said it really should be ten-a-day?! If you're eating a conventional "healthy" diet then of course you need loads of vitamins and minerals and antioxidants to compensate for all the grains and sugar that are doing you damage.

Plus of course we're supposed to be avoiding fat and not having too much protein so mainstream dietary advice is fill up on fruits and veggies. Did you know that there is a carnivore diet where you only eat meat and sometimes, not always, dairy products. It's the complete opposite of veganism, some of these people are only eating beef and not even adding any salt to their food. They don't eat a single fruit or vegetable for years on end and they are thriving.

Zoe Harcombe did a good job of debunking the five-a-day scam. Then she went on to find five food items that actually would maximise your micronutrient intake. Note that only one of five foods is a vegetable (kale) and one is a seed (sunflower seeds), the other three are liver, sardines and eggs. Suddenly that carnivore diet doesn't look like it's deficient after all. Note that she isn't saying that you should eat these five foods every day; the point was that a perfect five-a-day would only include one vegetable and that other foods are far better sources of the micronutrients we need.

So while it's important to get your FLGV (Fuck Load of Green Veg) in when you're eating, you don't need to worry about eating five-a-day. Just make sure that your meals are healthy and that you're eating plenty, especially veggies, on your feast days so that you're getting enough nutrients to see you through your fast days. I personally take a few supplements when I'm not fasting to make sure I'm covered and for various health issues. I take magnesium (longstanding deficiency), vitamin C (would you believe I got scurvy once), zinc (on the advice of my physiotherapist), vitamin D (because I live in the UK), vitamin B6 (supposed to help with perimenopause), chondroitin (recommended for my TMJ osteoporosis) and turmeric (ditto.) I also take electrolytes every day because my sodium levels are on the low side and also because I get very thirsty and need to pee all the time without them.

Thanks @StuntNun I know all the advice is not based in robust science, but it's difficult to walk away from the maxim that I've been spouting to my dc for years and years .

I don't know what I'm stressing about, lunch today was meatballs in veg sauce (made with shallot, celery, red pepper, tomato, garlic, the stems of some ruby chard) served on courgetti spaghetti, accompanied by broccoli and a few peas. Not huge amounts obviously, but enough. And dinner is a salad with leaves, asparagus, parsley, toasted almonds and sliced manchego cheese, (with a suitably oily dressing). I'll maybe have a glass of red wine for the grape juice

I've been aiming for 20:4 since Tuesday. I'm there or thereabouts most days (I'm terrible at updating the Life app). I noticed that I hadn't felt hungry yet at 1.25pm today which is progress, initially I was hungry at 11.30am each day.
I'm sort of undecided about which pattern to choose - I guess sticking with 20:4 is not going to work in the long run as my body will settle?

Oneborn 20:4 is fine if it works for you; it's going to be similar to 16:8. You won't see much health difference from fasting 20:4 instead of 16:8 but you might find you eat fewer calories in four hours than you do in eight so that could help with weight loss. I think the thing to do is not be too consistent about it. So some days have breakfast and eat three meals, other days you could do a 24-hour fast if you feel like it, maybe once each week or fortnight. In my opinion it's a consistently low calorie intake that's likely to slow down weight loss as your metabolism adjusts. I know on a low carb diet you often hear about someone getting fed up, eating a load of carbs... and then dropping three pounds the next day! We don't recommend it on the Low Carb Bootcamp because it's unpredictable and the weight will come off anyway without doing that. But it does happen and people do use carb refeeds to trigger weight loss, in fact that's the premise of the Carb Nite diet for weightlifters. I think the same is true with fasting - you need occasional feast days as much as you need fast days. Convince your body that there's plenty of food available and it will get rid of the excess body fat.

Thank you @StuntNun that's really interesting, along with your post from this morning.

@StuntNun can you link the electrolyte you use again please? I’m really struggling with headaches weeks in now despite taking magnesium supplement, eating avocado or salmon most days for potassium and having oxo drinks, salting food and also dabbing pink salt off a plate. Do the electrolytes have a flavour/will they make water taste different?

Motivate it's this electrolyte powder from Amazon.. It isn't flavoured and it doesn't contain sweetener but it does taste faintly salty. I'm not using it as an electrolyte replacement drink for exercise though so I only add half a scoop to a pint of water. I also take an extra magnesium supplement because most forms of magnesium in supplements aren't bioavailable so your body doesn't absorb them. However I have a long-term magnesium deficiency (poor sleep, pins and needles in hands and feet) so you might not need that if you're getting plenty of magnesium from food. Although there is a school of thought that magnesium has become depleted in the soil so modern foods don't contain enough for health. I take Magnesium Glycinatee but now my deficiency had resolved I only need a half dose (one capsule per day) to keep on top of it. Every time I stop taking it my symptoms come back so I expect to be on it long term.

Why does my phone do such weird things with bolding and links? It's so annoying! It looks fine on my screen and then when I hit post it gets all messed up. Hopefully you can make sense of it Motivate.

Thanks @StuntNun got all that!

@Motivateinmotion I've got an unopened Amazon delivery if you'd like it @Motivateinmotion I won't use it

My first week has been going well, slightly over on carbs (avg 50g) averaging around 1000kcals. So not low enough for ketosis? I’ve been finding 20/4 is working nicely but some days where I’ve felt properly hungry I have opened my eating window a little earlier but kept to the 4 hour window- have a good weekend all

I wouldn't worry too much about being in ketosis Twirly, it isn't necessary for weight loss.

Wish I’d seen this earlier @Oneborneverydecade I’ve just bought some electrolyte tablets I found on Amazon as was worried about the salty taste in water. Just the thought makes me feel queasy so hoping tablet form will help. Thank you though!!

I usually do 16:8 but thought I’d mix it up a bit and go for a longer fast today. Currently just over 20 hours and feeling fine. Might see if I can get to 23.

That's great Jolyholibobs how are you doing now?

Had breakfast today, eggs, avocado, creamy coffee. Then one long walk and one short walk big mug if tea and some water I between), dinner in 10 minutes.

Feels good to mix it up, but with all the walking I guess my liquids have been low. Nowhere to pee on my walks.

Going for another 23 hour fast tomorrow.

Good luck tomorrow Venus. I'm aiming for 24 hours from Sunday dinner to Monday dinner but I'll be on school doing Covid-19 swabbing on Monday which was rather stressful last time as they'd scheduled in too many people per hour. So if I come out of school stressed out I may not manage all 24 hours. I'll just see how the day goes.

@StuntNun thanks for this thread it’s really interesting. Did 23 hrs no problem. Wanted to eat with DH so they was the limit but I could have kept going.

I have a bit of loose skin that I am hoping this may help with.

It should do Jollyholibobs although you may find 36-hour fasts more effective so that autophagy can do its thing.

Hi everyone. I'm so happy I found this thread as I've started low carbing again last week. Fasting has always been part of my life (religious reasons) and I have always felt the benefits. It is so interesting to see how the discourse over fasting has changed so much over recent years. I remember telling people I was fasting years ago and they would be shocked and horrified that I was "starving myself" and how barbaric and unhealthy it is. This time I want to see what changes I can make to my health by combining both low carb and fasting approaches.

My weight has steadily crept up after having my kids and I'm at a point where I'm worried I may be developing insulin resistance. My overall aim is to lose approx 7kg and bring my waist measurement down dramatically. I don't "look" fat, but I'm a bit of an apple shape and I know that weight around the midsection is the most harmful.

Does anyone know what the rule is on sweetners? Why do some say they aren't allowed? They don't contribute anything carb or calorie wise? I don't think I'll be able to make it through low carbing without sweetener in my coffee!

Welcome @chilliplant634 I know what you mean in regards to fasting for religious reasons and people being horrified! But when I tal to them about its purpose for weight loss they are really interested 

In regard to sweeteners, some can have the same effect on your insulin as sugar, triggering cravings and hunger so best to limit them! I'm sure @StuntNun will be along with a much clever answer shortly

Chilli some people cope better with sweeteners than others. I used them for a while when I gave up alcohol and switched to flavoured water instead (on the basis that it's easier to modify a habit than it is to give it up.) I thought I was okay with the sweetener sucralose but when I gave it up I actually felt a lot better and that my gut health improved. Now I avoid sweeteners entirely and if I want something sweet I use sugar instead as I know it won't damage my gut lining. So I would advise planning to give up the sweetener in your coffee. Now if you've only just gone low carb now might not be the best time to try and cut out sweeteners as well. But at some point in the future I would give it a go. It is easier than you might think, especially if you cut down gradually. Once you've cut them out your palate adjusts very quickly to the point that if you get a sweetened drink by mistake it will taste horribly sweet to you. It's tempting to believe that sweeteners are fine and we can handle them but you only have to look at the number of people that are completely addicted to Diet Coke and the struggles they have giving it up. I think sweeteners have much more power over us than we realise.

I used a sweetener in my coffee for 20 years and since giving it up 3 years ago I can’t stand the taste of sweet coffee now. I also love it black now too, which I never thought would happen!