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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

BSD and Fast800 support thread #17

999 replies

thenewaveragebear1983 · 06/01/2020 10:51

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc)
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum at 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800.

Time restricted eating/TRE :
In addition to the fast800/ BSD plan you can incorporate a strategy of time restricted eating. Put simply, this means only eating between certain times each day to maximise your fasting time. TRE has shown to have positive results for weightloss, even if there is no calorie restriction, and increases insulin sensitivity/reduces insulin resistance. At first, try for a clear 12 hours without food each 24 hours, increasing to 16:8 as you get more adept at fasting.

Some useful links:

previous thread

Meal planning ideas thread
Blood sugar diet recipe thread and menu planner meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

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Thread gallery
23
FluffyEarMuffs · 11/01/2020 09:21

@MozzchopsThirty don't worry! Even MM had moments of weakness!

What are you eating today at home?

thenewaveragebear1983 · 11/01/2020 09:31

@Doubleyouexwhyandzed you will only 'burn stored energy' when you are glycogen depleted and have no insulin in your blood stream. It is very little to do with how many calories you eat and significantly more do with what you eat and when you eat it. The same calories eaten as one meal a day or 3 meals a day will affect you differently. It could simply be that you are much more insulin resistant than you realised and as a result you are still pumping out excess insulin as a response to food, which is then preventing the fat burning. It will change though. The best cure for insulin resistance is fasting, Mediterranean diet and gentle fasted exercise (eg brisk walk before breakfast) - your insulin sensitivity will increase, but it can take some time, as you are experiencing. Keep doing what you are doing, there are so many other benefits than weightloss!
Have you done your measurements? If not I suggest doing those because it can help when you have a plateau to see how many inches you are losing even if the scales aren't moving

I think the daily weighing can be very motivating, but if you're finding it demoralising then I suggest stepping back from the scales. I try and only weigh 3 times a week and on non-weigh days I get up and drink a pint of water straight away to stop me getting on the scales.

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tasmaniandevilchaser · 11/01/2020 09:32

@theforgetfulcat my DD is a similar age and is experiencing similar issues, I love the advice from your mum, I’m going to remember that!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 11/01/2020 09:46

@PhoenixMama re your daughter. I wish my mum had stopped me eating so much sugar. Her sugar addiction caused mine, and as a result gave me lifelong weight issues, causing gestational diabetes (therefore increasing my children's chances of weigh issues/T2 as well). I don't doubt that her use of low fat products and sweets in our diet came from a place of kindness but we know better now.

I have great fear that my boys, particularly my youngest (my insulin was uncontrollable while I was pregnant with him) will develop T2 diabetes and I have explicitly asked grandparents to simply not give them sweets. No chocolate puddings or sugary cereal. No huge portions of ice cream (adult size servings for a 2 year old in restaurant etc?!). I think the kindest thing we can do for our children is teach them that sweets are not a reward, encourage them to exercise some restraint and enjoy a small amount occasionally, and get them physically active - however, this is hard because we are in the minority thinking this way, and I find particularly when dealing with the older generation who were brought up thinking low fat, then have a little sweet after meals. They see it as harmless - despite all four of our parents (mine and Dh) having lifelong weight issues. Dh's mum has been slim all her life but is now piling on weight as she gets older because, quite simply, she's aging and her diet hasn't changed to compensate.

Your dd doesn't have to be hungry though. She just needs guided to the right foods, and maybe she is old enough to learn some mindfulness techniques to really listen to her stomach- is she really hungry, or bored? Anxious? Thirsty? Encourage her to make food (eg chop an apple and spread with peanut butter) as the 'making' sometimes satisfies the 'hunger' - whereas grab and go foods are eaten before we've even thought about it.

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CaptainBrickbeard · 11/01/2020 10:35

I think like a few people on here, I am feeling a bit fed up this morning!

It’s Day 10 and overall I’ve lost 9lbs which I know is amazing. I feel frustrated though because:

  • I’m on Day 3 of a plateau so haven’t had the buzz of seeing weight drop for those days which was giving me a morning lift.
  • I have been ravenously hungry yesterday and today.
  • I’ve been doing really boring tax related admin this morning and so much of my eating is boredom related! Dull tasks like that make me want to inhale the biscuit tin whereas if I was lost in my work or a good book, I wouldn’t think about food.

The hunger is getting to me because I am drinking at least 3 litres of water a day, a lot of it in the morning and I am definitely eating fat. Yesterday I had a 400cal tuna salad with olive oil dressing for lunch but felt starving all afternoon.

My period is due in two days and I think the novelty of the diet has worn off - those two factors combined probably explain all of my gripes above!

MozzchopsThirty · 11/01/2020 10:40

@FluffyEarMuffs haha, yes but I seem to have a whole weak weekend!!!
I find it much easier during the week

Today I'm having poached eggs, avocado and rye bread at lunch
Out tonight with dcs but will stick to chicken & sweet potato

To PP, I definitely think our hormones play a huge part in appetite. I don't have periods as I have a mirena but there are times in the month when I could eat all day long

thenewaveragebear1983 · 11/01/2020 10:42

@CaptainBrickbeard those hormones are very destructive aren't they? Notoriously affecting your insulin sensitivity too. Honestly? I'd have an increased calorie allowance today, but make it extra fat or protein obviously. Maybe factor in a nice pudding of yogurt and berries to look forward to? Rather than graze all day, increase your food intake at your two meals. That odd hungry 'wanty' opening the cupboards just in case a delicious treat has magically appeared in there feeling is insulin, which is probably going haywire due to ToTM.

It's not supposed to feel like a horrible punishment so there's no reason why you can't soften the blow to get you through. You're better to have increased cals of the right stuff than a spectacular crash-out on crisps and biscuits later on!

Be mindful if drinking loads of water, it can leave you a bit washed out and I find can make me hungry as my body starts seeking out salty food usually peanuts. A bit of salt can help, but actually even better is a sugar free electrolyte such as dioralyte or the ones I use for running, as they are a blend of salts not just sodium.

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Doubleyouexwhyandzed · 11/01/2020 10:44

Thanks Newaveragebear, I think you’re right. I’m always the slowest loser when I diet. It’s so frustrating. I don’t think I’m eating particularly Mediterranean- I’m definately not having much fat. How do we eat anything much if we blow the cals on oil 🤔 need to have a rethink of how I’m using the cals. I’m tending to have things like salmon/chicken and salad/veg or a low carb vlcd shake, bit of cheese. Low fat mince in gravy with veg. I’m not having any visible carbs like potato/ grain/rice etc.
I reweighed this morning after a second wee and I’ve actually gone up 😂😭🤦‍♀️ Ffs.
Captain the plateau is a bastard isn’t it. 😭

thenewaveragebear1983 · 11/01/2020 10:45

Should also add @CaptainBrickbeard that it will be interesting to note how you feel next cycle. I've had times where I've had zero pmt and suddenly realised I'm due on, because the low carb diet had settled my hormones so much. If you do keep a diet journal/diary maybe worth noting how you feel today to compare next month.

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thenewaveragebear1983 · 11/01/2020 10:53

@Doubleyouexwhyandzed firstly, I'd recommend not weighing more than once a day. I have a friend who weighs 3 times and averages it every day (but she's completely bonkers and knows it). Someone else upthread (kimlek? Possibly) said they weighed, and weighed again after half an hour? That probably isn't the best strategy either! Joe wicks calls the scale 'the sad step' and honestly if you feel that way, step away. Bathroom scales are fairly inaccurate, mine weigh 3 lbs different depending on what tile they're on!

Instead- weigh your food, count your cals, go back to basics. I'd add some fat into your shake for a start, even if you do that in addition to the 800 cals. Throw a tbsp of oil in there, 120 cals - see if it helps? The optimum fat sources are those that are carb free (so meat, eggs, oil) or ones that are low carb (yogurt, cheese, cream) so focus on those first. I don't eat dairy so I really struggle, plus since trying to cut down meat too, I've noticed it this week.

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TheForgetfulCat · 11/01/2020 13:13

CaptainBrickbeard yes indeed to PMT! But also yes to the low carb diet seeming to have a beneficial effect. I noticed it last time and hoping for something similar again.

Doubleyou I re read the bit in the book where MM says 'don't be afraid of good fats but this is a diet book so no handfuls of cheese etc'. I think it's easy to focus on the high fat bit whereas the first instruction is 'eat more veg'. Really if you're going to have 800 calories and not eat the furniture most of them will have to be veg I would think? Yesterday I tried quite hard to get my 800 cals from extra strong cheddar but I fear this wasn't a nutritionally balanced approach.

Today had apple porridge before parkrun and am now attempting to fast until tonight when DS really wants to go out for sourdough pizza which our local bar does on Saturday nights. Reckoning if I have nothing else I might be able to squeeze in half a pizza an even more nutritionally balanced approach

Doubleyouexwhyandzed · 11/01/2020 15:51

Yesterday I tried quite hard to get my 800 cals from extra strong cheddar
This made me chuckle 😂

PhoenixMama · 11/01/2020 16:27

I'm having a massive wobble and desperately want to drink wine! Arrrggggg! I think it's cuz we're having dinner out tonight at a little cafe because of one of DD's activities and I feel like saying 'to hell with it all!' which would be stupid after such a good week. Also out at friends for lunch tomorrow so won't be able to control food so know I might be over then so I need to be good, I just don't want to be!

Moknicker · 11/01/2020 17:32

Down 100 g but am nervous about tonight. We are going for one of those corporate sporting events with lots of booze and food. Am certain to fall off the wagon.

CaptainBrickbeard · 11/01/2020 18:52

Solidarity to everyone teetering on the edge of the wagon!

I had extra hummus with carrots this morning so after Greek yoghurt and seeds for breakfast and guacamole with veg batons for lunch I was already at about 600 calories by 1pm.

Took the kids out in the afternoon and I had a horrible taste in my mouth the whole time and was very hungry! So, for dinner I DEVOURED a rump steak with cabbage, leek, green beans and broccoli all fried in butter that came to 500 calories. At which point I did a small ‘fuck it’ and had two Hotel Chocolat 70% cocoa gin truffles plus 50ml of red wine.

So I’m somewhere in the realm of 1300 calories today but as far as a sugar binge goes, I’m not feeling too bad about the two truffles. I savoured every bit! And they were truly delicious.

Feel bad about Dry January but that 50ml of wine has gone massively to my head so I definitely don’t feel tempted for more!

I suppose 1300ish calories for a day is a lot, lot less than I was having before. I’ll keep trying! Weekends are probably always going to be a bit more challenging, I guess.

CaptainBrickbeard · 11/01/2020 18:57

Oh and meant to say, when I had a gin truffle at Christmas it tasted really bitter to me. Tonight I was amazed how sweet they seemed. I think it’s surprising how quickly that perception can change. I’m definitely finding dark chocolate a lot more appealing right now!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 11/01/2020 20:16

My day has ended rather badly- did bootcamp this morning, then had 3 falafel after for breakfast. Lunch was a nice roast beef at my parents (but did include a roastie, a Yorkshire and a pudding Blush) and then dinner was hugely delayed, Dh went to the shop and I ended up having a breadroll with ham, leaves, avocado and mayo.
So not exactly a low carb day!

Will need to try for a good day on plan tomorrow, it's always hard when Dh is home as I can't eat on my schedule so easily. It will be roast chicken and veg for dinner tomorrow, but will try to keep lunch very light and BSD friendly. Dh and I will be going for a 10km run hopefully (weather permitting)

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CaptainBrickbeard · 11/01/2020 20:33

I like the feeling - in this thread and on this diet - that a fuck up doesn’t spell the end and doesn’t mean the whole thing is ruined. I’ve definitely had very ‘all or nothing’ diets before and it’s not been a good long term approach. There is a really nice feeling on here of aiming for ‘good enough’, not punishing ourselves and always moving on. Previously I have felt that I’d ruined it all now after eating something ‘forbidden’ and taken that as licence to quit. It’s nice not to think that way!

Gjem · 11/01/2020 20:58

Hi everyone. I ate the most delightful white chocolate millionaires shortbread today! Back to it tomorrow. Most impressed that usually one thing like that would give me permission to eat all the chocolate in the world but actually I’ve just eaten when I’m hungry. Next week is my scheduled week of PMT which is likely to be the biggest challenge for me, going to prep breakfast and lunch so they’re ready to eat in case I find myself looking through the fridge for food!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 11/01/2020 21:09

@CaptainBrickbeard I think that too. For me it's because yes, I want to lose weight, but also this diet has long term health benefits aside from weight loss, so every good meal or choice is a positive tick that can't ever be undone. I have had phases of time doing this where literally choosing not to eat til lunchtime was the only element of the plan I was actually following - but even though I was struggling I still knew I'd done one of the things that makes the plan work.
I like this thread because we all find our way that works for us long term- whether that's occasional bread/potato/pasta, 2 squares of dark choc every day, or weekends totally off plan. I found the bootcamp thread far too strict and 'all or nothing' and for me that won't work long term.

It's weird not drinking on a Saturday night. Dh is all exuberant with his new healthy lifestyle and just tentatively suggested he may never drink again..,easy to say after 11 days. I'm sorry, but I flatly refuse. For a start, we go on holiday with our families twice a year, and I cannot will not contemplate that without at least a glass of wine...!

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KImlek · 11/01/2020 22:44

double I only jumped back on the scales to get my kg weight and hadn’t expected a change. It’s made me realise how tenuous it is and that I shouldn’t get too hung up on it. I’m going to get the tape measure out tomorrow.
No idea what my cals are today as MFP refusing to let me create a recipe - some error code. As I missed b’fast & lunch I had two portions of the Thai green curry with cauliflower rice. I tweaked the BSD recipe quite a lot so a tadge disappointed that MFP playing up. I also really really fancied a red tonight & got some alcohol free that was blooming awful! So had to take the taste away with a tiny glass of the real stuff. 🙄 Despite this I still don’t think I’m over 800 and if I am I doubt it’s by too much.

BSD and Fast800 support thread #17
FluffyEarMuffs · 12/01/2020 00:02

My phone is linked to my scales, so I'll double jump half an hour later when I have forgotten my phone and then decide to link it up to record a loss.

But on today...

Good news is I walked 12,000 steps

Bad news is that I have had two glasses of red wine, a very large portion of Cheshire cheese, three dark chocolate buttons... and one harribo.

Best news is I saw the marvellous Sandi Totsvik, who does have a knack of putting things in perspective re enjoying life every day. So I am determined that every decision is a choice!

Maccalenny · 12/01/2020 07:28

I really agree with the thoughts about one off-plan choice (or a few!) not meaning the end of the diet. I’m in the ‘2 squares of dark chocolate a day’ camp....I can skip most other things if I know I’m having that!

But I also think one of the most important things for me is that this plan is about long-term health, and that the weight loss sits within that goal, rather than being the sole aim. I’m trying age-proof myself as much as I can this year, by getting my bmi healthy, developing good and sustainable habits like yoga and walking, so eating good fats, decent level of protein, lots of veggies can only help.

I went on my first walk with a local group yesterday - only five miles, but I can really feel it today! By the summer I’d like to be attempting their 10 mile walks too, but I’m a long way off that yet.

CaptainBrickbeard · 12/01/2020 08:08

Plateau over! 2lbs down today so overall I’ve lost 11lbs in 11 days.

I am really struggling to sleep though and it’s having a knock on effect on my days. Last night I woke up so thirsty. I went downstairs at 1am for a peppermint tea and a glass of water. I have a feeling I’ve got my salt/electrolyte something out of whack. I’m drinking so much water and agree with what you said, Bear about then feeling washed out. But also thirsty a lot. I keep forgetting to add salt to my food. When the shopping order comes this morning I might do a bacon-based brunch!

Kimlek · 12/01/2020 08:08

Ah fluffy how fabulous to see Sandi Totsvik!! Wow!
maccalenny I’m very impressed you’ve found a walking group and 5 miles is a pretty good start.
Is there another good way to measure steps other than a Fitbit?

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