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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

BSD and Fast800 support thread #17

999 replies

thenewaveragebear1983 · 06/01/2020 10:51

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc)
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum at 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800.

Time restricted eating/TRE :
In addition to the fast800/ BSD plan you can incorporate a strategy of time restricted eating. Put simply, this means only eating between certain times each day to maximise your fasting time. TRE has shown to have positive results for weightloss, even if there is no calorie restriction, and increases insulin sensitivity/reduces insulin resistance. At first, try for a clear 12 hours without food each 24 hours, increasing to 16:8 as you get more adept at fasting.

Some useful links:

previous thread

Meal planning ideas thread
Blood sugar diet recipe thread and menu planner meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
Apolloanddaphne · 27/02/2020 07:00

After my first week I have lost 5.5lb. I am very pleased with this. I haven't been 100% perfect but I have tried very hard and mostly kept to my plan. I assume I am not going to lose at this rate every week?

CaptainBrickbeard · 27/02/2020 07:07

Well done apollo! That’s a brilliant start!

The weight loss is definitely not steady and predictable - using the FitBit app or happy scale app to smooth it out and see the trends really helps. I lost 9lbs in week 1, 2lbs in week 2, nothing in week 3, 1lb in week 4 for example - but today is exactly eight weeks since I started and the scales tell me I’ve lost 25lbs altogether! (Another pound came off since yesterday! Hooray!) So it works. And I haven’t been 100% on plan all the time either - life happens! But this diet really does work.

Kimlek · 27/02/2020 07:22

Bizarrely I’m down another 1lb this morning and have hit the next stone (10.13.4)!! Yippee!! Don’t really deserve it as haven’t planned or put anything into MFP nor done the yoga!! I did play tennis yesterday and had a decent dog walk with a friend but not very brisk. Had lunch out which started off well as ordered fish with veg and no carbs. Everyone ordered wine bar me. Then ordered puddings. I ended up succumbing and joining in with a glass of wine and a mini pud!! Then went home and had a handful of peanut M&Ms.... mindless. Not hungry but really really wanted sweetness despite the mini pud! I really need to ensure my daughters eat these (who bought them) rather than me!! I missed dinner as was totally stuffed.
Today, I’ll walk the dog later as it’s pouring down. But may try the yoga day 1 this morning. I’ve lots of admin to do but should fit it in! I’ll fast as usual until lunch. I’ve left over salmon and stir fry peppers for lunch; dinner will be pan fried chicken with veg. And NO blinking M&Ms!!!!
apollo that’s incredibly impressive and well done you! It’s unlikely a rate of 5.5lb a week will last but a lot on here seem to have 2-3lb rate a week. I plateau a LOT so my average rate is around 1.3lbs a week. Remember that even when it’s slow or plateau there’s good work going on and you’re changing habits.

Kimlek · 27/02/2020 07:31

I’m in week 9 (I think) and have lost a stone since starting (27th December). As you can see from happy scale I seriously plateaued first 3 weeks of Feb despite being strict. But has picked up again this week!

BSD and Fast800 support thread #17
Colourmylife1 · 27/02/2020 08:05

Good morning. Just checking in and looking for some wisdom from anyone who is successfully maintaining after reaching goal. I reached my goal weight last October and was successfully maintaining until December when my weight crept up a few pounds over Christmas. It took me a while to get back on plan in January but I’m now back down to my goal weight. I’m now really struggling with maintenance because I’m worried about regaining weight again. I have yo yo dieted my whole life (now age 56) and enough is enough. I am still keeping my calories very low - less than 1000 a day and I worry about messing up my metabolism. Before Christmas I was successful maintaining on around 1500 a day which I’m quite happy with. Do any maintainers have any tips? Should I increase calories a small amount daily? Or should I move straight to 5:2 or 6:1? I have both the BSD and Fast 800 books but they don’t really give enough guidance on maintenance in my view.

thenewaveragebear1983 · 27/02/2020 08:37

@Colourmylife1 I've maintained (ish) for a while now but when I say maintenance it is definitely a fluctuation of up to about 7lbs above my lowest weight at any given point. I decided once that fluctuation regularly exceeded 7lbs then that meant I needed to lose again, properly.
I didn't have a strategy as such, I have muddled through the last 12 months, but I would say that my strategy of more calories daily is actually probably not the most effective (especially given further reading I have done about insulin control and fasting) and that actually having one or two strict fasting days each week might have more effectively kept my weight stable. I have maintained through a kind of gain 5/lose 6/gain 3/ lose 2 kind of method and it gets very draining sometimes. I also do a lot of exercise and I think that's what's made the difference to the weight staying off.

OP posts:
FluffyEarMuffs · 27/02/2020 10:53

@Colourmylife1MM talks in his Fast 800 book about the people who deliberately restrict calories every day (what are they called again??) and does seem to conclude that it's not workable long term.

I plan on doing strict fast days in amongst eating a not really calorie controlled Mediterranean based diet with a few treats of carbs once a week or so. That's what MM does himself and it seems to work for him, so I may as well try it!

CaptainBrickbeard · 27/02/2020 11:11

I know MM talks about intermittent fasting and intermittent dieting as ways to maintain. Long term calorie restriction just won’t work, I think. Certainly not for me, a yo-yo dieter as well. I don’t have high hopes for my ability to maintain but my plan once I get to that stage (still a long way off!) is to try to have fast days every week where I do a strict 800 calories - starting with 5:2 and moving to 6:1 and to watch carbs the rest of the time. So I would hopefully carry on having Greek yoghurt and berries for breakfast rather than going back to muesli or toast. And have salads rather than sandwiches most of the time. Also, the TRE is really helpful to me to try and keep away from evening snacking so I would want to keep that up most of the time.

All of that is easy to say, not so easy to do. But I do know that it’s not realistic at all for m to say I’ll log all my food and calorie count every day for the rest of my life and keep under 1500 or whatever. It just won’t happen and I’m more likely to swing the other way and give up altogether if I attempt it.

One habit I’d like to form and keep is perhaps to weigh weekly and keep an eye on things in that way, so that if my weight starts to creep much higher then I can lose it before it gets too bad. But I’ve said all of this before! But here I am again!

Colourmylife1 · 27/02/2020 16:10

Many thanks for your replies @thenewaveragebear1983 @CaptainBrickbeard @FluffyEarMuffs. I’ve been following your journeys with interest. bear I was really hoping I could move on from my weight bouncing around 3/5/7 lbs. It’s so easy for me to put on and so very hard and slow to lose. Also I’m not very tall so 7lbs really shows and is almost a dress size on me.

I think weekly weighing is probably a good idea. I have tried not to weigh too often in the past but that hasn’t really been successful for me. I have avoided stepping on the scales if I suspect I have put on weight. Thus 1 lb becomes 2 then 4 then so on ....

I’m a bit concerned about a big bounce back if I go straight from 800 cals to 5:2. I think I’m generally quite anxious about maintaining the weight loss but maybe equally I need to accept stabilising at a weight which is a few lbs higher than my lowest weight. I will also try to focus more on health, exercise and strength. I have managed to reduce my body fat % by 14% through this WOE and exercise so that’s something to hold onto.

Maybe I need to get the books out and reread this weekend!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 27/02/2020 17:18

@Colourmylife1 there is always going to be some variation though, whether that's 2/3/4 lbs or whatever- you'll never be exactly the same. Maintaining to within a parameter is surely the only option. You just need to set your parameters. For me, 7 lbs is about right, partly because I can hold a substantial amount of water so when I do eat carbs I can literally gain 5/6lbs overnight so I'd never be able to eat anything off plan again! It could be that 2/3lb is the most you're prepared to gain without going back to basics to get it off.

From my experience, it's not how much you eat, but what and when and I think any maintenance plan needs to have those core principles at its heart. Suddenly increasing carbs will result in weight gain, and prolonged increase in carbs will result in us regaining what we've lost over time.

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bluepixie · 27/02/2020 18:26

Hi guys can I join!
I’ve done countless diets before and always get half way to target stop and then gain again. I’m Absolutely determined to do it this time and this sounds like a healthy way to do it.

I started it on Monday but I’m really struggling with the 800 cals. I’ve managed about 1100 any tips? I’m drinking about 3l water (need wee about every hour it feels!!)
Maybe I need less carbs? This is sort of thing I’m doing

B-Greek yog almond milk chia seeds cocoa powder and blueberries (all weighed out and 200cals) on my work days so I can drink on way to work. Otherwise is eggs (2) and Avacado or eggs and smoked salmon
Lunch - home made Quorn bolengase with no rice. Semi skimmed lattee (100mls milk only used)
Dinner - salmon marinated in miso courgette and onions.
I can’t live without choc so had 2 squares of dark choc. And I can’t live without one milky coffee a day!

I’m thinking Quorn is higher carb than I realised so I was starving by dinner? And salmon is high cals so I went over?

Any advice! You guys r doing so great hopefully I’ll manage to not die on 800 on day soon!

Oh I’m 11stone 5.6 and 5ft 6. Officially the heaviest I’ve been for about 2 years. I usually am around 11 but want to get to 10.5 ideally

Kimlek · 27/02/2020 21:11

Hi cream123 well done giving this a go. I really like the whole way of eating as it makes sense. I wouldn’t worry too much about 800 cals or 1100 for the time being. But the more you can plan the easier it is to omit the carbs. I struggle to stick to 800 if I have bfast, lunch & dinner; let alone if I added in a latte & snacks/dark choc. BUT you have to be kind to yourself and do what works for you otherwise you’ll stop. I fast after dinner until lunch. If you scroll back you’ll see a conversation between a few of us re fasting etc. I’m the same height as you and a similar weight. At Xmas was 12st and now 11st. I’m also wanting to be 10st as that’s a decent BMI.

Kimlek · 27/02/2020 21:18

cream123 it’s worth putting your daily/weekly plan into MFP before you eat. It’s surprising how some things add up and other plans really don’t!!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 27/02/2020 21:35

Hi @Cream123 , welcome. You could try cutting out your breakfast (maybe on alternate days to start with if you aren't sure) to see if that helps you get down to 800. I find the earlier I start eating, the hungrier I am. Otherwise, provided the carbs are still low, it doesn't matter if you do 1100 cals although obviously the weight loss might be slower.

I'm closing up the kitchen today on 770 cals, 49g carbs (I had a 100% veggie day). Today is the first day this week where I've had that weird frantic 'need food' feeling, although I have managed to resist. I made my dinner before going out to work which was my saving grace because I'd never have made it when I got home. It was really tasty too: 250g grated celeriac, 100g quorn mince, 100g mushrooms. 100g frozen veggie 'base' mix. And a smoky stock pot. All pan fried and just generally mushed together into a kind of hash. Very tasty. I only had half, calories were low (less than 200) and it was very easy and filling. I am finding my appetite has dropped; I'm hungry at mealtime but I get full much more quickly.

I've done 16k steps (no run) and day 16 yoga, and about 20 mins boxercise and some core stuff. Knackered now though!

Tomorrow: I have bone broth simmering away which will be ready tomorrow so I'll have that during the day. I'm in by myself tomorrow as I've skived off a meal at my in laws, so I'm planning a rather glorious evening of catching up on trash tv, a bit of pampering, and I will probably have a nice snacky evening meal of salad, houmous, cold cuts and maybe a glass of wine.

I normally dread the weekend (food wise anyway !) but I feel quite optimistic this week!

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bluepixie · 27/02/2020 21:53

Thanks so much guys. Can I ask roughly how much carbs you end up having a day ?
I’ve got a plan for tmrw which omits chocolate(!) and only has 25 mls of milk for a coffee. Surely I can do that for one day?!

@Kimlek well done on such a great weight loss. Good to have someone with similar weight and target. I was 10.3 at my wedding ten years ago and I felt like I needed to loose loads and now I look at myself in pics and think I was slim!

I’ve been hungry tonight and wanting to go to the cupboard but I’ve resisted and now I’m going to bed (hungry!).

Kimlek · 27/02/2020 22:04

cream123 I try to keep carbs below 40g/50g. Protein is around 60/70 for me. Rest fats. (20% carbs; 35% fats; 45% proteins) And if you're hungry make sure you’re eating enough fats. It’s a real change of mindset to increase fats but it makes a huge difference with regard to hunger!

Kimlek · 27/02/2020 22:07

Sorry fat 45% and protein 35% and carbs 20% having said that I don’t get too hung up on it now but it’s interesting to monitor every now and then.

bluepixie · 27/02/2020 22:17

Ok I need to up My fat prob why I’m hungry!!
Cheese, Avacado Full fat dairy and nuts here I come! Thanks xx

thenewaveragebear1983 · 28/02/2020 07:31

Weighed in his morning at 10.4.5- so that's 8lbs down since Monday! I'm so pleased with that but a little shocked as well.

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bluepixie · 28/02/2020 07:34

wow well done. That’s great! I feel
Motivated just being part of this thread!

thisyeargoodyear · 28/02/2020 07:50

Great work everyone. I am on Day 5 now and just weighed in and I am 5.5 lb down. My goal of 7 lb in week 1 looks promising Smile

Kimlek · 28/02/2020 08:12

Huge well done!! There’s some big kisses there bear and goodyear!!
cream some people have HUGE weekly losses so don’t be disheartened if you don’t. In Jan my average loss was 1.3 and in Feb 1.6 so some weeks I’d lose 2/3lbs but others nothing. We compare with others and if your loss is small it still counts!!!
I’m about to brave the rain for a dog walk but it won’t be brisk with this friend!! I’m then lunching out and it’s my middle DDs bday so we’re out for dinner too!! I’ll stick to BSD foods but may have a glass of wine at dinner.

bluepixie · 28/02/2020 08:32

I started on Monday at 11.9 and was 11.5.6 and today 11.5 so it’s coming off.

But my 11.9 was after a 2 week huge binge where I was eating and drinking everything in sight (I mean everything) following a failed ivf cycle (last try for sibling). I weighed 11.9 post pregnancy so I was pretty disgusted at myself!

11.5 is still really high for me so I’m still cross I’m only 4.5 down. (Prob being a bit harsh on myself)

I’ve planned today with 35g carbs black coffees lots of chicken eggs tomatoes nuts Olives and salads. High fat so fingers crossed a decent drop tmrw. I was aiming for 7 off the first week given how it was gained in 2 weeks I thought it would come off ASAP .

I’m annoyed I’ve been 10.10 and then let myself get back here rather than loosing more. But I’ve no excuse now and I’m going to do it!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 28/02/2020 08:38

I think they key thing for me this week has been I have actually stuck to 800 cals, and I have tracked everything properly, So I know it's really 800. I think when I have a very strict week I realise just how far from the plan I actually am sometimes, much more 'the lifestyle' of BSD rather than the actual diet. Planning has been priority though, and having my soup there in the slow cooker has meant that I haven't even had to think about lunch or snacks, I've just had that, meaning I have pretty much fasted all day. Whether that is sustainable long term, I don't know, although it is rather nice to be losing consistently again. 10.3 was my lowest ever (apart from a rather nasty bout of norovirus) and if I could get under 10 I'd be dancing!

I have my 2nd collagen treatment today and that's really helping too as I can already see results and really want it to get the best possible results. I have noticed a difference already and I will post a pic (maybe) after another few sessions.

OP posts:
Kimlek · 28/02/2020 09:26

bear so pleased the collagen is working!!!! Do you buy a bone especially for your broth?

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