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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

BSD and Fast800 support thread #17

999 replies

thenewaveragebear1983 · 06/01/2020 10:51

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc)
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum at 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800.

Time restricted eating/TRE :
In addition to the fast800/ BSD plan you can incorporate a strategy of time restricted eating. Put simply, this means only eating between certain times each day to maximise your fasting time. TRE has shown to have positive results for weightloss, even if there is no calorie restriction, and increases insulin sensitivity/reduces insulin resistance. At first, try for a clear 12 hours without food each 24 hours, increasing to 16:8 as you get more adept at fasting.

Some useful links:

previous thread

Meal planning ideas thread
Blood sugar diet recipe thread and menu planner meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
RooKangaroo · 10/02/2020 19:13

De-lurking to say, @Phoenix Mama, can you please share your muffin recipe?

VenusInfers · 10/02/2020 21:01

Hi all

Good weekend here. Not feeling hungry, really, and my (admittedly dodgy) mechanical scales say I've lost another couple of pounds. Shock So only one to go to target! Yay! Today was busy, on my feet all day and keeping to 800cals, so still going well.
Just hope the last pound goes from my thighs rather than my boobs - they've already done their bit and are decidedly smaller! Dammit.

BTW, tried the Jack Monroe vegan sausage recipe on Sunday here - really yummy and pretty BSD compliant. I reckon the method makes 7 portions at 190 cals each. A bit high on carbs (hard to calculate, but around 10 -15 g per portion) but very satisfying.

DottyDetective · 10/02/2020 21:18

Fasted 25hours and then opened with avocado, cheese and Parma ham. Followed up with a big chicken, broccoli and cashew nut stir fry. Does everyone pay attention to calories in extra veg etc? I’ve been throwing in some extra broccoli/onion occasionally to bulk out the meals. Around 850cals to close anyway.

Bear well done for getting back on track! How often have you done the BSD now?

Kimlek · 10/02/2020 22:28

dotty I add more veg to all the recipes and often different veg but put my changes into MFP so it shouldn’t be miles out.
venus my tiny boobs are almost gone! Going to need chicken fillets and padded bras so they at least match my tum!
I’ve not been great today. Not awful either though. Just quite snacky! Walked the dog, washed him then found 3 cooked sausages in the fridge from yesterday - ate one, the dog enjoyed the other 2. Then that was it! Seeds, nuts, several blackberries, a pepper. Didn’t stop grazing. Other than an hour’s pilates. Had a beef stir fry for dinner then continued to graze on more nuts and seeds. It’s still coming in at 850 ish but didn’t weigh seeds so unsure. But certainly no fasting and 12 hours of eating! Haven’t had much water either. Feeling really heavy tonight now.

DottyDetective · 10/02/2020 22:36

I generally do count them all on MyFitnessPal but if I throw in a little extra broccoli or courgette for example I don’t worry about it.

FluffyEarMuffs · 11/02/2020 08:25

Still not moved from 145lbs. Getting fed up now really. All I am doing is losing and then gaining the same couple of lbs.

I've been plateauing for weeks.

Urghh.

thenewaveragebear1983 · 11/02/2020 08:56

@FluffyEarMuffs 145, that's what 10.5? What's your bmi/target? Is that a 'vanity target' (like my 9.7...yeah right) or is it a genuine 'middle of healthy range' target? I found when my bmi got to around halfway through the normal range (10.3 for me) that was it. I plateaued there for months (a year) despite eating loads and despite running miles and miles every week. Could it be that this is your Weight? I had to make my peace with 10.3 because I was never going to get into the 9's.

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thenewaveragebear1983 · 11/02/2020 08:59

@DottyDetective I've been doing it on and off since April 2016. That was my first round, I lost a bit then regained. I've muddled on for a while l, then relaunched fully in jan 2018 which is when I started running as well and that's when it really worked for me. I tend to have ongoing 'following the principles' times and then intersperse with fully 'on it' times which is when I actually lose weight! I've had to mix it in with training for races and accepting I need more carbs during the summer months so I can race. For me it's definitely a lifestyle not a diet.

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MMC20 · 11/02/2020 09:13

Hi all. Was doing OK and losing a pretty steady 2 pounds a week. Went pear-shaped when working from home yesterday. Ate a whole frozen pizza for lunch and then biscuits 😢 complete disaster. Not weighing now until next week. Working from home definitely a risk area for me.

FluffyEarMuffs · 11/02/2020 09:32

@thenewaveragebear1983 sadly, I am not in the middle of my ideal weight range, or I'd blame it on that! 😁

It just seems so unfair. I can count on one hand the times I am deviated/cheated at all in the last six weeks. I have been eating so much less than I used to, of the right foods, and barely drinking anything. Exercising every week, walking lots every day. And yet, arghhhh.

Kimlek · 11/02/2020 10:19

Argh fluffy it’s so frustrating! What are your macros like?

FluffyEarMuffs · 11/02/2020 12:04

@Kimlek I have not been obsessing about macros as I know my carbs are low, but perhaps I ought to start.

I have also not read the BSD book, only the Fast 800 book. Do you think I should buy the BSD one? Does it concentrate on macros in that?

thenewaveragebear1983 · 11/02/2020 12:14

@FluffyEarMuffs I prefer the original BSD book to the fast800 personally but the principle is basically the same. BSD was originally a medical diet to reverse T2 diabetes and the fast800 is presented more as a weightloss plan for everyone. Neither is particularly focussed on macros if I recall. It's more to do with eating the right foods and stabilising insulin that way. Not saying you are doing this but the danger of focusing on macros is that it negates the source of the nutrients- eg. 50g carbs in milk chocolate is different to 50g carbs in veg.

I'm sure you're doing this all anyway, but eg, are you weighing portions, drinking plenty water etc? Also, are you snacking/grazing rather than eating full meals (this can make you less sensitive to insulin and prevent weight loss?) Are you getting enough electrolytes?

If these things aren't working, I personally wouldn't cut calories any further, if anything I'd increase calories slightly but focus on proteins and fat, and cut the carbs as low as you can to give your metabolism a boost. It sounds like your body is just clawing back calories and you need to 'trick' it into weight loss again.

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FluffyEarMuffs · 11/02/2020 12:34

Ah, perhaps I will buy the BSD book anyway.

Yes, that was my understanding that macros don't feature in this diet as a pre requisite - but that they can really help some people. I should look into it I think as it can't hurt now I am feeling like this ;-)

I have never snacked, I never eat breakfast (even before) so I naturally have always done a form of Time Restricted Eating but I am more aware of it now and stick to it.

Basicallly, I have either been having one meal or two, depending on the day of the week. If I include vegetables, it's 800 calories evened out over a few days. If I exclude vegetables as MM suggests, it's about 600, but I have been making an effort to eat more good fatty calories in the last week. I don't even LIKE chocolate or sweets or sugar though, so I haven't been eating those Grin

I haven't been weighing things recently as I don't have micro kitchen scales anymore, but I am very aware of portion sizes in relation to recipes and especially carbs and I don't think I am far off ideal, if at all.

I have had the odd glass of red wine since the 2 January, and two weeks ago I had a small amount of rice as was invited to a Chinese New Year dinner. I've had a small slice of wholemeal sourdough maybe three times since the new year. That's been the extent of my cheating.

I really wanted to be 9 stone something soon. Grrrrr.

I am going to walk home from work and stress eat an avocado and a teaspoonful of almond butter.

I will also top up my water bottle. I do drink a LOT usually. I haven't bee adding salt though after the first week. Perhaps I should.

Thanks Bear for listening. I am sure eventually I will get a whoosh.

thenewaveragebear1983 · 11/02/2020 13:23

@FluffyEarMuffs none of those things should really be stalling your weightloss and it does sound like you're doing everything right. The only thing I would say is that 600 cals every day is too low, even if you're very petite and tiny framed. I really would recommend eating the 800 every day or gleaning the calories in your normal meals (eg choosing tuna in oil, full cream milk or cream in coffee, full fat mayo etc) if you don't want to add an extra 'meal' (I see from your post that you are doing this now but I was a bit worried before when you were cutting calories really low) He dismisses the old 'starvation mode' theory based on a few key factors- the BSD prevents muscle loss so keeps metabolism high; protein raises metabolism etc- but if you're only eating 600 cals most days you will be gradually getting more nutritionally depleted, and possibly not getting enough protein, and your body will fight you every mouthful to preserve calories. I'd suggest electrolytes rather than just salt as well. I use a sugar free soluble one that's for runners (it does have artificial sweeteners in though) or you can get plain dioralyte sachets. I think Holland and Barrett May do an electrolyte supplement too?
I'm sorry you feel frustrated though, and I can understand why as you do sound like you're following all the advice. A good day always shows, I'm sure a whoosh is due soon! I love the image of you angrily eating a teaspoon of almond butter!!

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Kimlek · 11/02/2020 13:24

Mmmmm fluffy it sounds like you are on it!!! Hardly any ‘cheating’ at all. I don’t think 600 cals is a good idea either. I have the original book but it doesn’t mention macros. I monitor mine as i can pile on the veg and then be quite surprised at the carbs in some. So have learnt to just check (very basically that they are not way off) when I meal plan. Although I’m obviously not doing it right either as lost 8lbs since Jan 2nd... so also pretty rubbish but it’s at least a general loss. Have you done measurements? And how much have you lost since 2nd Jan? Let’s keep plugging away!!! We’ll get there!!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 11/02/2020 13:28

I just did day one of 30 days of yoga, i'm really going to try to do it every day but I may not manage it. I really enjoyed it though and it makes me realise how tight and inflexible running has made me!
Just having lunch of salad leaves, tinned Tuna in oil, some mixed antipasti (olives, mushrooms, sundried Toms) mayo and a sprinkle of seeds. I feel very virtuous!

I just have had a good low carb day yesterday because I had that familiar but very annoying 'wide awake' feeling all night. I struggled to get to sleep, and then felt very 'wired' all night. It usually settles down after a few days so hopefully will sleep better tonight

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PhoenixMama · 11/02/2020 17:02

Hi all - busy day and had a massive mood crash in the middle and haven't been super good so def not having the angelic week I had planned!

Someone asked for my Skinny Banana Chocolate Chip Muffin recipe - here it is!

It's not super low carb but its not bad calories wise, and they're really filling - if you make 12 muffins it is 170cals, fat: 4.4g Carbs 29.2 Protein 4.9

1.5 cups of whole wheat flour (I use spelt)
1 tsp baking soda
0.25 tsp salt
3 bananas
0.25 cup honey
1 tbsp vanilla
1 tbsp melted coconut oil or olive oil
1 egg
0.5 cup greek yoghurt
1 tbsp almond milk (or milk)
100g chocolate chips

Preheat oven to 350.

Whisk flour, baking soda & salt.

Blend bananas, honey, vanilla, oil, egg, milk & yoghurt in a blender.

Add wet ingredients to dry and fold in chocolate chips. I keep 0.25 of a cup back and sprinkle them on the top.

Bake for 20 - 25 mins.

Cool in tin for 5 mins before removing.

RooKangaroo · 11/02/2020 18:08

Thank you Phoenixmama!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 11/02/2020 21:42

Closing up today on 1245 cals. I just had some yogurt and a pear and a few grapes so my carbs were quite high on 89g. Despite being very busy I only clocked in 10k steps as I didn't run although I did do yoga. My diner was a super easy piece of white fish, baked in tinfoil with frozen Mediterranean veg and a white wine stock pot which was very simple and really tasty.

Tomorrow: I'm going for a short run in the morning, then I'm at work which means it's a soy latte lunch kind of day! I haven't decided on dinner yet, but it's most likely to be either vegan meatballs and pea pasta or pork steaks with salad. I'll try to find 30 mins for day 2 of Adrienne as well.

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DottyDetective · 11/02/2020 22:33

I had a busy day too. Think I’m adapting to the one meal a day eating as wasn’t too hungry. Your fish sounds lovely bear. I put a chicken curry in the slow cooker this morning and had a huge portion with some cauliflower rice followed by a nice bit of cheese. 730kcals. Peckish still but hopefully will be ok tomorrow. Kids are both in childcare in the morning and I’m starting work late (sadly finishing late too) so I’m going to try fit in a HIIT class in the morning. Only problem is exercise in the mornings makes me exceptionally hungry afterwards so may need some lunch tomorrow.

Kimlek · 11/02/2020 22:34

I was grumpy and down in the dumps today so didn’t go to tennis. Had avocado & smoked salmon for lunch. Dinner was some picky bits from the fridge. Then snacked on nuts and seeds at 9pm. I’m getting into a habit of this, which is when I’m meant to be fasting! I’m closing at 786 cals but given I feel bloated, big and heavy I’m expecting to be the same if not up a bit on the scales in the morning.

Kimlek · 12/02/2020 06:26

I’m static this morning... again.
My daily average cals over the last week is 834. Similar to the week before and the week before that yet I’ve only lost 1lb in the last 12 days. I’ve 17lbs to go so at this rate it’s going to take 6 months according to happy scale. Grrrr!

Kimlek · 12/02/2020 06:53

I’m feeling very sorry for myself. Not because of the eating/weight but just generally. I’ve no Motivation to do anything. My get up and go has got up and gone. Don’t feel like tennis again today. I’ll drag myself there but....

thenewaveragebear1983 · 12/02/2020 07:00

@Kimlek I'm sorry you feel fed up. Prior to the 12 days plateau have you been losing quite rapidly? It really is common that you will experience a plateau of sorts and some of them can drag on. I know that doesn't really help but rest assured that we've all been there and come out the other side. The body just takes a while to get used to the initial weight loss and you will be losing inches if not weight.
I'd definitely play tennis today, it will perk you up and make you feel 100 times better.

I've not weighed myself since Sunday despite having a few good days because (although I was tempted) I feel stiff this morning after doing that yoga and am probably retaining some water. Just going to plod on with my plan for the day and maybe will weigh tomorrow.

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