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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

BSD and Fast800 support thread #17

999 replies

thenewaveragebear1983 · 06/01/2020 10:51

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc)
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum at 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800.

Time restricted eating/TRE :
In addition to the fast800/ BSD plan you can incorporate a strategy of time restricted eating. Put simply, this means only eating between certain times each day to maximise your fasting time. TRE has shown to have positive results for weightloss, even if there is no calorie restriction, and increases insulin sensitivity/reduces insulin resistance. At first, try for a clear 12 hours without food each 24 hours, increasing to 16:8 as you get more adept at fasting.

Some useful links:

previous thread

Meal planning ideas thread
Blood sugar diet recipe thread and menu planner meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

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Thread gallery
23
Hellsbells0509 · 28/01/2020 14:19

What are the guidelines about Macros? What should we be aiming for on BSD? I'm regularly going over 50gs for carbs - what should I be aiming for?

thenewaveragebear1983 · 28/01/2020 14:39

@Hellsbells0509 there isn't really a set amount. I always say that as long as you're avoiding the main carbs (so no sugar, no bread/flour, no pasta, rice, potato etc) and also limiting fruit and sticking to 800-1000 cals then your macros will be fine. A varied diet will help (so meat heavy one day, vegetarian/lentil heavy the next day etc) and really focus on getting fat in (as our natural propensity is to avoid fat) - consider it over a week not a day. It should still work out. Similarly, you can eat a veg diet (so no meat at all) and still lose provided you choose the right sources of protein.

However .... sometimes the low carb community say 50g carbs as a max (bear in mind traditional keto/bootcamp style don't count calories) as a guide to limit your consumption. But 50g carbs out of 800 cals is a fair percentage whereas 50g carbs out of 2000 cals is a small percentage.... so it is to be taken with a pinch of salt.

On my angelic halo wearing days 😇 I'd be looking to get in at 800-1000 cals with around 40g carbs which in my predicted total for day is around 20% total calories consumed as carbs

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thenewaveragebear1983 · 28/01/2020 14:45

@Kimlek I wonder if your app is slightly underestimating values? This quick search suggests 100 g cooked chicken has 31g protein, plus your lentils will have had some too- making 32g all day quite a low total for what you had?

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PhoenixMama · 28/01/2020 16:08

So @Kimlek I think you're really over on fat tbh. After much playing around, research, etc I ended up on Protein: 70g, Fat: 31g & Carbs: 50-60g You're eating double my fat and half my protein. It was definitely a bit trial & error in the beginning - can you try really upping your protein for a week or so & seeing how you go?

Kimlek · 28/01/2020 16:17

Thanks pheonix and bear I’m using the MFP for macros etc. I’ve already put today’s food etc into it (50ml milk, easy bolognese BSD with konjac noodles & dinner will be BSD ginger salmon with peppers and green beans - according to MFP that’s only 550 cals and 20% carbs, 42% fat and 37% protein. As per photo

BSD and Fast800 support thread #17
Kimlek · 28/01/2020 16:28

pheonix I’ve read that carbs should be less that 50g and around 20% - so I put 20% as my parameter - number of grams will depend on calories though. I also read that protein grams should equal your ideal weight in Kg. For me that’s 60kg therefore 60g of protein which equals about 40% so a whopping 40% left for fat. But someone please correct me if I’ve got this wrong! Having said all this I’ve no idea if the macros are normally on target or not. And MFP playing up just now so can’t check!! I think I’m usually ok protein wise but will defo check!!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 28/01/2020 16:41

@Kimlek for protein I've always done about 0.35-0.5 g per pound of body weight (not ideal body weight, but actual body weight) - so for me, that's around 55g a day (actual protein so eg. About 150g chicken = 55g protein. Approx). I actually eat slightly more because I do do a fair bit of exercise.

If there is a big difference between your ideal goal weight and your actual current Weight @Kimlek then you may not be eating enough for your current needs by eating to your desired weight?

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thenewaveragebear1983 · 28/01/2020 16:41

Sorry for the bold shouty post!!

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thenewaveragebear1983 · 28/01/2020 16:50

And also I do agree with @PhoenixMama that you need to play around with it a bit to find what's right for you. I definitely need more fat than maybe others do and I have to work hard to get it in. I've been considerably better this week since having more dairy and therefore fat.
I also find I'm very carb sensitive- certain carbs, even if they are 'allowed' are absolute no-no for me, and yet an occasional piece of bread doesn't affect me like it does others.

@Kimlek I know this all sounds like hugely conflicting advice, sorry. 2 things I'd do first in your position: 1) check your protein requirements using the 0.4g per pound formula and compare against the ideal body weight formula and see whether they are hugely different? And 2) check the inputs on MFP for the foods you add (I use Tesco website for generic foods like veg or meat etc) and check any branded stuff against the labels, just in case somewhere someone had added the item and made a big error (if it's something you eat every day you could be using wrong stats regularly)

Keep doing what you're doing though- it sounds like you're following the plan but your body is fighting you a bit. It must be frustrating I know and I'm sorry I can't help any more than this Thanks

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Kimlek · 28/01/2020 17:00

These are my parameters. They’re probably ok aren’t they? But whether I’m attaining those I’m not sure but will keep a very close eye on it.

BSD and Fast800 support thread #17
Riddleofthesands · 28/01/2020 17:24

Hi everyone, I gained 3/4 lb after the weekend but hoping to have lost it again by tomorrow. Been strict today, small peanut butter and sauerkraut for lunch, duck breast, spinach, peas and mushrooms for dinner. One kid has toothache and one is finally over throwing up bug, they have kept me v busy playing nurse and obsessively laundering towels etc. No time for couch to 5K since Saturday which is maddening, will make sure I get a half hour to myself tomorrow or I will go nutty. Keep going everyone.

onanothertrain · 28/01/2020 17:40

All this talk of protein is making me realise I don't get enough but its difficult as a vegetarian. Made a real effort today, greek yoghurt with Raspberries for breakfast, Feta salad for lunch and quorn Sausages, eggs and beans for dinner.

Kimlek · 28/01/2020 18:50

Thank you bear using your calculation I need 64g protein so only 3g more than my method. Good to know! I’ve been faffing with MFP and found it calculates macros weekly as well as daily. Interesting seeing a weekly overview. My first week was 800 cals every day with carbs 26%, fat 41% and protein 33% so pretty bang on. Since then the protein has lowered to 15/20% and fat increased to 60/70%. Also cals have been nearer 1000 than 800. So I need to look back at that first week and be a lot stricter!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 28/01/2020 20:58

I've had a good day today, food slightly tweaked from my original plan as I had a handful of nuts and some yogurt in addition to my planned menu. I did 20k steps (including a 12km run) and other than that have had a fairly relaxing day.

Interesting the macros chat- I never know whether it's good on not to plan to macros, but I will say that almost universally when I've had a good day, the macros are en pointe - 20% carbs, 40 fat, 40 protein- and that does seem to be my winning formula.

Tomorrow: I like to do a longish fast On a weds because I'm at work over lunchtime so it's easy enough to do. I'm planning a short run in the morning, weather permitting, then will have a soy latte at work which will tide me over til dinner time. Can't remember what's on my dinner menu and I'm too tired to go and check!

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thenewaveragebear1983 · 28/01/2020 21:04

@onanothertrain I find now I'm increasing my veggie meals, it's difficult to get the protein in without also increasing carbs as almost all veggie protein sources are carby ( like lentils, nuts etc) if you eat too many. Eggs I suppose would be pure protein/fat?
I have some Richmond veggie sausages which apparently are amazing but I have checked the back and they are as high in carbs as they are protein!

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Hellsbells0509 · 28/01/2020 22:24

@thenewaveragebear1983 @Kimlek thanks for the advice. I'm well over 50g on my carbs if I have rolled oats for breakfast so I'm going to cut those and stick to eggs and see if it makes a difference.

I looked at my macros for last week (2nd week) and was averaging 35% carbs 29% fat and 36% protein. Not sure I've tracked and weighed and measured everything though so that could be where I'm falling down.

It's all so confusing! I thought if I limited to 800 the weight would just fall off!

Kimlek · 28/01/2020 22:34

hellsbells at 800 it should shouldn’t it? I wonder if some of the MFP items are out. You’re not too far off with 35% carbs, but it’s worth aiming for 20%. Eggs will definitely be a better BSD option than oats, especially if you’re having them often. Good luck!!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 29/01/2020 07:03

The thing is it really is so much more about^^ what you eat rather than the calories, and also the timing (hence the TRE element that's a big focus in the fast800 book- not so much in the original BSD). The combination of cutting calories and cutting carbs and increasing fasting time all work together to produce the results.
I'd suggest re-Reading the book at some point, as now you've had a go you're a bit better placed to know what you're doing but I guarantee there will be things you totally missed first time! I still read it occasionally and think 'I'm not doing that yet'.

It took every fibre of my resolve not to stand on the scales this morning because I know I've had 2 really good days, but I committed myself to do til Friday before weighing. Hoping for another good day today!

Have a good one folks

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Kimlek · 29/01/2020 07:13

Morning everyone!
I’ve lost the lb gained yesterday and back to the static weight I’ve been for the previous 5 days. Happy Scale makes it look like I’m steadily loosing and still says I’ll reach my goal in 8 weeks. I’ve 20lbs to my ideal.... so I think 8 weeks is a stretch and more likely 12.
Given the macros chat I’m going to plan my food on MFP before I eat it and tweak as necessary.
Today will be an hours tennis, fast til lunch, smoked salmon, avocado & toms (I’m visiting a friend with no kitchen otherwise I’d have an egg). Dinner will be a beef stir fry. That all comes in at 700cals and leaves
me with 100 cals of Carbs 6g, fat 4g, protein 9g to use for a snack/coffee if needed.

PhoenixMama · 29/01/2020 09:23

Well done on the tweaking @Kimlek - it's tough getting it right in the beginning and @thenewaveragebear1983 is the font of all knowledge on these things.

Someone up.thread asked about the 30 days of yoga - the one @Maccalenny & I are doing is by Yoga with Adriene. She's on YouTube, it's totally free & she's done it for 6 years so there's lots to choose from. I think this is one of her best for beginners, because she does grow the practice & she's put in some very gentle days as well. I've done I think 4 of the years but not always in January. This is the first time I've set my alarm for half an hour earlier to make sure I actually get them in, and the impact on my mood has been significant. I have ptsd, anxiety & depression and my head's been noticibly calmer (and muscle definition I'm gaining doesn't hurt either!)

FluffyEarMuffs · 29/01/2020 11:08

Ah, that was me asking about the yoga. Thank you @PhoenixMama

I want something I can do when I am away for work in my hotel room. This sounds perfect and a nice routine to try and stick to.

thenewaveragebear1983 · 29/01/2020 17:04

I'm absolutely starving today! I ran this morning then went straight to work so I've existed soley on coffee, soy milk and about 3 chicken poppers and a handful of mixed nuts.

Slightly higher carb day today because I'm having half a baked butternut squash with some Richmond veggie sausages and a fried egg for my tea (not on my menu, y'see what I'm always saying about my plan and then not actually doing it!) I have to change on a whim to fit in with kids and what needs used up.

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FluffyEarMuffs · 29/01/2020 18:21

I did a gym class this morning at 6:30am. It's the only time I get to exercise without it impacting on my youngest, so I am doing this now twice a week.

Made a cheese, mushroom and tomato omelette for lunch with some sliced Quorn (yuck; was on offer, will never buy again), and a salad... a spot less than 500 calories.

I am going to skip dinner. There's nothing I fancy and I am not hungry.

I am feeling a bit down. This way of eating is "working" in that I don't feel hungry at all. But I am not getting the results. I am going away for work in February and I want to look and feel better.

But all I fancy doing when I get home at 9:30 is making some toast and marmite and drinking a bottle of wine 😁

Maccalenny · 29/01/2020 19:20

Agree with everything Phoenix said about the 30 days of yoga, and yoga with Adriene generally. She does apparently do a monthly calendar of suggested daily yoga practice all year, so I’m aiming to keep going once January is over.

onanothertrain · 29/01/2020 20:38

I got home from work really late and starving so obviously had to have had ice cream for my dinner. Straight out the tub. Woops Blush

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