5:2 Thread No. 73: Go up a gear and enjoy life in the Fasting Lane. Let science boost your performance.

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.

• Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.

It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.

• Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss

Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabete UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.

Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !

Thanks TalkinPeace and BigChocFrenzy.

DH says I look slimmer. I didn't measure before but will do that now so that I can check in future. My face feels thinner to me. Perhaps I am retaining water??

I am 99% sure that the app is right - it's Nutracheck - been around years, with thousands of users, and I have in the past often checked it against MFP and other resources.

I rarely eat sugar and never drink it. But I do drink fizzy water most days. I suspect that my body doesn't like alcohol - it tends to bloat me.

I do weigh everything, apart from things like fruit, where Nutracheck has, say, "large apple" or "medium satsuma". But I'll make sure to weigh more consistently to be sure I'm not underestimating.

I have become more sedentary over the years and now don't do any exercise at all. That's not helped by working from home and so not even doing more than about 4-5k steps a day.

I've been doing 650 cal FDs (a quarter of what I thought my TDEE was), and these have been hard - I'm wary of going up to 800 calories though.

I have used thefastdiet.co.uk TDEE calculator and it puts me at 2100ish, which is lots lower than what Nutracheck says (2500ish). With a BMI of 22, and a year older it's 1400ish. That would be a huge struggle to achieve for me and this sort of low calorie level for months on end is what I think has damaged my metabolism in the past.

I think I'll try:

• sticking at 650 cal FDs
• 2100 as my TDEE
• lower carb
• alcohol-free
• no snacking
• adding in some regular exercise - a daily 20 minute walk is a good idea
• measuring as an additional way of tracking

Thanks again for all the advice and info.

Utterly bizarre and unexpected SV this morning - I'm 2lbs down! Given the ridiculousness of last week (I had a full English as a starter for breakfast last Saturday ) I'd have been happy with a STS.

So that's 2lbs down and I'm now 9st 7lb - another goal achieved!! I'm going to try for 9st 2lbs now as that will give me a BMI of 22. Given my original goal was 10st 3lbs and I never really thought I'd get there (was 12st 12lbs in July) I'm very pleased. Keep going new people, this WOL absolutely does work.

Wow well done Bug that it amazing. You’ve smashed your original target and your so close to your new one!

Far too that sounds like a great plan for action. My TDEE is now 1400 and agree what you said I would of never achieved that when I first started 5:2.

Im fofefitting FD today but will get out and do a run on treadmill instead as it’s been a week. I really felt like I was coming down with something yesterday but it’s disappeared now.

Well done Bug on your SV.

Got a SV too today and the scales finally shifted. Back to the lowest that I hit on 20th Feb of 58.6kg (when tummy was dodgy).

Going to enjoy my 2 NFDs and back to fasting on Monday. Best of luck to any Saturday fasters.

HLBug fantastic loss!!

Plus you have just inspired me to try my first ever B2B this weekend due to the stats you have just posted, I thought the chances of me getting back to the 9's was a distant dream but I'm now determined to make it happen.

I weighed this morning and have put on 4lbs since Monday due to all the carbo loading and then consoling myself with chocolate when race and weekend were cancelled.....even ate an Easter egg that wasn't for me . So to try and rectify the situation its a B2B rather than continue with mindless eating which would generally happen especially at a weekend!!!!

FartooFat sounds like you've got a good plan, good luck!!

HLBug that's fantastic! Well done. It's difficult with LO's as well but you have kept at it!

Quacking I was hoping you might be up to posting some headless pics if you don't mind? Not that we don't want to see your face but obviously don't want to out you

Good for you blue. A B2B will definitely undo any damage done. I’m a firm believer that just a single FD can undo any damage so best of luck to you. Is you race totally cancelled or have they pursponed it to another day?

Purple- I can post some pics. I hadn’t as when I normally take journey pics they are in underwear but I found some the other day from the beginning that were clothed and that weren’t on fb so that’s cool with me il take a snap when I get my gym kit on.

Quacking the race is cancelled it's quite a major operation to put on road closures and the like as generally 12,000+ take part. Still we are getting a full refund so I can always do it next year

Thanks for what you said regarding doing a FD straight after indulging its the motivation I needed, i will be ecstatic if that 4lbs is gone by Monday my usual weigh day.....fingers crossed!

Well done on your SV, bug
Great work, smashing through your original goal and then achieving further milestones
At your new, new goal, you'll probably need some new outfits - the clothes from your starting weight would be rather baggy

Good idea, blue to get back in the fasting swing after your disappointment
Those 4 lb are probably mostly retained water and undigested food, so a b2b should shift most, or all, of that.
Remember with b2b, you can have 650 cals, even if you haven't much to lose

I'm having a Saturday FD, so I'll join you for that at least. Anyone else ?

Sounds a good 2-week plan, fartoofat
The No snacking change is very helpful - it increases fat-burning throughout each 24-hr period
Remember, not even "healthy" snacks like fruit - have that as part of a meal.
However, you can eat up to 4 meals daily if you wish

I recommend adding permanently:

• swap the fizzy water for plain still water as much as you can - add ice & a slice if you like to jazz it up
• Boost drinking water - at least 1 litre in addition to other drinks. Start each day with a glass and keep water with you
• Start your last meal each day by about 7:30 pm - it increases the overnight fasting period Also, late eating significantly increases some health risks. So no midnight feasts, ever.

At 18 stone 5lb, 2100 cals sounds a sensible target on NFDs
As you lose each stone or so, you can recalculate

Mosely's calculator is definitely the one we recommend, as it is based on proven equations and databases
If you've been using the Nutracheck one, that's 400 cals too high - the largest variation I can remember
So over 5 NFDs, that's been 2,000 calories too much - eating back most of the weekly 2900 deficit from your 2 FDs
If your TDEE is lower than usual, that is probably all of the deficit gone, explaining why you haven't lost

Review after 2 weeks and if you are losing well, you could optionally add back one glass wine on NFDs
and try adding back lower GI starchy carbs - oats, rye bread, potato (not mash or deep-fried), quinoa, brown / red rice
but still cut out sugary treats for a while longer

Blue that's great to hear my post has struck a chord - you absolutely can get into the 9s. Good luck with your B2B this weekend.

BCF you're absolutely right - a few weeks again 6 full big bags went to the charity shop. I treated myself to some new 'back to work' clothes in the January sales...and may have gone a bit OTT. So, I've given up shopping for lent to let my bank balance recover for a bit .

bug We always say 5:2 actually saves people money
but erm, we omitted the fact that most will need a new wardrobe

4" snow outside I'm staying indoors, not risking my ankle
Stay safe everyone and do take an emergency kit with you if you must go out in snow

Blue - Have you considered doing the Bristol half in September? DH does it most years as it’s a nice course and goes out and back under the suspension bridge.

Oh, what a disappointment blue. So many things have been cancelled. I had my annual trip out with my mum this weekend but she is totally snowed in, and a friend coming over from Europe had their flight cancelled.

Fantastic loss HL! Congrats. And welcome FarToo. Lots of good advice on this thread so I am sure you will find something that works for you.

Great SV for me today after three weeks on the Plateau of Despondency! Have lost 2lb, so now down to 10st 3lb. Ten pounds lost in 55 days! :) And only 3lb to second goal - my first was 10 st 5lb to put me in healthy BMI range. Final goal will be 9st 6lb to give me some wiggle room.

Quack I have done the Bristol half many moons ago and yes it is a lovely course....flat as well!! But I find fitting in the long runs over the summer difficult so March/April races are better for me. Now that you have started running you could always join your DH at Bristol

Snail you must be so pleased to have broken through the Plateau of Despondency, you are leading the way for others to follow

Blue - my goodness you must be joking, I’m only up to 3 miles at the moment. Looking at a few 5ks & a 6k events for this year. DH is having a mid life crisis and has signed up for a 63 miler but then that’s him pretty much done with the running. I can’t run with him he’s too quick.

I’ve managed to gather some pics. I haven’t got any pics from the start of 5:2. But this is the best non outing pics I can find.

Hopefully they add in the correct order

1st picture is the day I started BSD.

April 2016 - 11st 12 BMI 29.5

Lost just under 2 stone on BSD.

2nd picture is July 2016 9st 9 just over a stone lost with 5:2.

3rd picture is today 8st11.7 BMI 19.4

Quack thanks for posting you look amazing, I can't believe the transformation......have you got use to your new size or do you not recognise yourself when accidentally you catch a glimpse of yourself?

Bloody hell quacking you look seriously awesome! You've really done such a fantastic job, congratulations

Fantastic photos, duck which really show what you have achieved
Congratulations.

Why not post also on the 5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread because many lurkers go there, when they are wondering if they should start

Well done on your SV, snail and for smashing through that plateau
Congrats on a major NSV, achieving heathy BMI

Even with the plateau, your overall average loss on 5:2 is nearly 1lb weekly,
which is a decent rate when you started not far above healthy BMI and

thanks.

No, it’s taking a while to get my head round it all. I don’t get changed in front of a mirror so it only really hit me a couple of weeks ago in the changing room.

Quacking!!!!!!! Oh my goodness!

You truly are bloody well amazing!!!!

Is it rude to ask how old you are? And how is the excess skin situation because there doesn’t seem to be any. And that’s why I’m asking how old you are because you may be young enough for it to have pinged back into place.

Personally I’m already investigating surgery for when I’ve managec to lose the weight. I can’t see it pinging back anywhere to be honest.

Wow quacking you look absolutely amazing! What an incredible transformation, you have a really lovely figure.

The snow is finally clearing so I've managed to get to the shops to stock up! Got a lovely big bit of pork for tomorrow's roast.

DP is away so I've got the run of the tv- currently watching master chef and planning what I would make if it were me!

WELL DONE quacking
That is a fantastic transformation.
Inspires me to get my backside in gear and aim to get back under 9st again

Fionne - no that’s fine I’ve had the exact same convo with a friend this week.

I’m early 30s. The excess skin situ really isn’t that bad because this is quite a gradual way of loosing weight compared to some of the extreme diets out there.

My stomach I can pinch about a inch of dead skin. It’s dropped a bit mind you and I have a slight overhang but it’s on my pants line so not too bad.

I also have dead skin on my inner thigh about a good handful I’d say. Every where else has pinged back quite well but I do have stretch marks but i had these prior to loosing this time round due to the years of yoyoing diet abuse. 8 years ago at my biggest I was a size 22 so I really can’t complain.

I had considered surgery in the past but I’ve now ruled that out.

Tip - it was actually your inspirational photo on the target thread that made me go for 5:2 I saw your fabulous legs and thought “I’d die for those long tanned toned legs” so thank you for posting.

I will settle for short very pale toned instead