Has anyone been to a fasting clinic like Buchinger-Wilhelmi?

[Boobz]

www.buchinger-wilhelmi.com/

If so, what was it like, did you enjoy it and would you recommend it?

Day 4: 55.5kg

I suppose it's all relative, but I don't feel "quite light"! I am only 5"3 and before I was diagnosed with cancer in March I weight 51kg and was the fittest I had ever been (doing daily Insanity/P90X etc.,) and so to come to the clinic at nearly 10kg more than I was this time last year - I felt positively obese looking in the mirror!

But it is all going in the right direction. I haven't been in the 55s since I was having my first cycle of chemo (they weigh you every time you came for a chemo cycle - a bit depressing seeing the numbers go up every month/week) - so to have all the 5s today is quite nice.

I feel good. Yesterday was very wet here though, so our excursion to Constanze was a bit washed out! I stopped twice with a fellow faster in a local tavern/cafe, and it was a bit depressing to drink fruit tea whilst fellow wet travellers/locals all had hot chocolates with whipped cream on top!

Having said that, I really am not hungry - isn't that totally weird? I was REALLY hungry in bed, trying to go to sleep on Day 2 of the fast, for about an hour (and would have devoured a tea and toast with butter and marmite if someone had put it in front of me), but I am past that now.

A typical day for me:
7:00 Meditation in the Silent Room
8:00 Nurse check - weight and blood pressure
8:15 Ginger tea in room
9:30 - 10:45 Work out at the gym (run and/or HIIT)
11:30 - 2 small glasses of juice in the Salon (it's very 70s German here - love it)
11:45 - Enema
12:00 - Liver compress (1 hour enforced rest in bed)
2:30 - 4:30 Group Walk in surrounding woodlands/vineyards/monastry etc
5:00 - Therapy (either massage, or psychotherapy or facial etc)
6:00 - Vegetable consume
7:30 - Medical lecture
8:30 Bed!

But there is variety - today I am going to the local hot spring baths they have here, as well as a medical check up with the doc.

I will repeat the above for another week, breaking the fast next Friday to start the "re-feeding" process before returning home a couple of days later on Sunday 17th.

My starting waist measurement was 77cm - they didn't measure hips. Will find out final measurement a week on Sunday.

It's very quiet here. I like it a lot.

Ah, as a lifter / boxer with lots of muscle, I prefer around BMI 22, whereas you being a long distance runner would find the lower ranges bring better performance.
I hadn't realised your treatment had put on nearly 10 kg.
Naturally, you want to return to your ideal BMI of 19.5 to feel really fit. This fortnight should be a real kickstart.

An enema Well, I was considering a visit for my 60th birthday this summer, but definitely not !

I hadn't realised your day was so programmed. Very impressive schedule and program, a lot more than I realised.

I want to go. Body cleanse & total peace, heaven.

Day 5: 55.3kg

Yes Annie - it is such the reboot! It's going really quickly actually - too quickly.

Yesterday I did "3D stretching" and medicine ball class - an hour in total, free with the program, as it was my rest day from running. Was really good actually - a lot of core work which I need. Then a check up with my doc where I got my blood work back from the lab test on arrival. Everything is as it should be, which is good considering the battering my body had with chemo last year, although I could do with a touch more vit D (although everyone seems to get that diagnosis as far as I can tell!)

Hot springs were fun, but there was a cafe and lots of people eating chips with mayo. Hard to suppress a bit of salivation!

I went into the saunas which are of course mixed and naked as we are in Germany. I have used that style before in Austria some years back, but it still shocks me, as a Brit, to see everyone walking around the whole thing (not just in the sauna itself) completely starkers! There was a really young couple come in - probably 15 or 16 (or maybe they were brother and sister?!) - I can't imagine my 16 year old self doing that on a "date"... wouldn't it be brilliant to be that body confident at such a young age?

The evening was meant to be a cooking class, but honestly I knew I was never going to cook nor eat the food they had on display, so I went to bed earlier and watched Netflix.

Today was supposed to be a running 7 miles outside day, but the weather is rubbish so will have to do it on the treadmill. Will be interesting to see how fast I can do it - I managed 53 mins on Tuesday but I was only on the first day of fasting then.

And only 200g lost since yesterday - I suppose I knew I couldn't keep a kilo a day going! And that's not to be sniffed at - that's a kg in 5 days if I kept that up which at home I would be very pleased with!

If this is only hotchoc reading then I might stop as I have read back over this and it's a lot of detail for perhaps me and you on our own Hotchoc - a bit self indulgent!

Oh and Hotchoc - I can't believe you are nearly 60?! Not sure why but you sound a lot younger! BTW the enema is totally fine - again I think it's a taboo thing in the UK (a bit like naked joint saunas) but actually it's really no big deal - the nurse does it in less than 30 seconds and then you are left to just expel it into the loo which takes a couple of goes and then you are done. And you feel so light, empty and clean!

Do keep reporting, Boobz
Your thread is so informative about a prolonged therapeutic fasting, a topic that few people have considered or even heard of.
You have a much bigger audience than you realise.

I know several from our 5:2er threads are reading with great interest and I've also had a couple of PMs referring to this thread.
I suspect a few more Mumsnetters will visit the clinic now.

Yup, the big 6-Oh is approaching and I'm still waiting to grow up !
My profile pics show I'm a gym rat.

I've visited wellness spas and naturist beaches in Germany many times, also a couple in Sweden, so I'm used to the relaxed communal nudity there.
They have a complete disregard about body appearance at all ages, which is liberating and wonderful: I saw women in their 80s unashamed of wrinkles, nattering away to teens (no mobile phones allowed !), other people with large scars, a few amputations.
Noone stared or blushed. All seemed at ease.

Btw, I'm big not hot choc
The big refers to the "Choc Frenzies" I used to have, rather than my size - I'm 5'3"

(Are you maybe having secret fantasies about drinking hot chocolate)
Seriously, other than when you are surrounded by chip-eaters, do you find yourself fantasising about food, atm ?
Sounds like you still feel physically (and mentally) strong.

Oh god sorry Big Choc - There is a hot choc on my Cancer thread I think which has got me confusing the names - so sorry!

Liver compress now - back in a bit.

Another 5:2er watching with interest, Boobz!

Keep the reports coming, please, they're fascinating!

Day 6 (half way): 54.8kg

Hi Breadandwine - thanks - will do then.

So I did run 7 miles on the treadmill yesterday but it was harder than Monday's 7 miler - did it in 58 mins so about 5 mins slower than last time, but still under an hour and the miles logged so that's ok. I never expected to be able to run 7 miles after not eating for 5 days so was pretty chuffed! I also did yoga for beginners class which was brilliant - especially all the arm exercises as it really helped to stretch out the muscles below my new implants which are still a bit weird feeling (they twinged the whole time I did breast stroke at the pool!) But it feels good to wake them up after protecting them for the last couple of months since surgery.

Lunch was a glass of pineapple juice, followed by my hot liver compress and a sleep for an hour. This was a mistake though, as it meant I found it really hard to sleep in the night time and didn't drop off until midnight or so..

After the nap I went for a walk but the weather was awful and my shoes inadequate so it was a bit of a wash out.

The afternoon dragged a bit as no activities. The usual soup at 6pm followed by a film in the salon, but it wasn't that interesting so I sloped off to do some house hunting online in my room.

And to today - just had my enema, and will have an Ayurvedic (sp?) massage at 10am which I'm looking forward to! Then a sauna, my afternoon 11:30 juice and them I will hit the gym (cross training today, as per my Hal Higdon schedule).

Have made 2 friends here: a London woman the same age as me, and a French chap about 10 years older. We natter at the meal times and stick close on the walks.

1/2 kilo loss since yesterday - which is fine by me.

Not hungry, not tired. Remarkable. It makes me realise how much I overeat in real life!

Has everyone already seen this? I watched it on iPlayer last night:

BBC Horizon doc on fasting

Did not know iplayer was available in Germany!

Sounds beautiful and interestng - must now get to gym myself.

I have a VPN on my phone so can access iPlayer anywhere - very handy.

Boobz, pls continue posting. I was away for 3 days and without internet.

I'm really interested in all you are saying but Im wondering if the thought of fasting fills anyone else with terror the way it does me? Or is that just a fat persons 'thing'.

I'm going to have a look at the Horizon doc.

A couple of years ago I went to the Phuket Cleanse. It was a radical thing for me to do and had I been in better place emotionally after the break up of my then 36 year marriage I would have loved it. Instead though I had the most extreme urge to get home to everything I knew and I left after 48 hours instead of staying the two weeks I'd booked.

Im still trying to overhaul my weight and health and I wish I'd had the strength to last in Thailand.

Sansoora I was not particularly looking forward to not eating for 2 weeks. My husband joked that we could go on a two week skiing holiday where Marcus Waring would cooks us 3 michelin starred meals every other day (this is a real thing we saw advertised) instead of this "retreat", but really I cannot stress how easy this has been. Not only have I not been particularly hungry (there have been a couple of waves of hunger over the past 6 days, but nothing I would describe as "starving", and my energy levels are up there with my normal routine at home or even higher, as I am not running after kids/eating badly, working etc).

So I would say if you want to do something like this, go for it! There are about 50 other people here at the moment I would say, and we are all drinking our 11:30 juice and eating the vegetable consume at 6 and no one looks like they are trying to stop themselves from eating the sofa.

Don't get me wrong - am looking forward to nice a steak salad when I get home, but that's what I want, rather than a massive pizza. It's about re-setting food boundaries and realising what your body needs rather than giving in to everything it wants. And now I don't feel like there is even a giving in thing going on - I just don't want to eat very much right now, and the weight is falling off. And all the other health benefits too!

I'm fascinated by this. I'm planning to start 5:2 as feeling so sluggish and lumpen.

Good luck, it sounds wonderful.

Wow OP, it sounds amazing!

Day 7: 54.4kg

Day 8: 54.2kg

I suppose the slowing down was inevitable - but at least it is still going down!

Did meditation yesterday and it was so hard - I find it almost impossible to empty my mind of other stuff, and to only concentrate on the here and now.

Went for a 6km walk yesterday, in addition to an hour's PT so am a bit bummed about only losing 200g but I think I still have some more to lose in me before Sunday. It's 3 miles on the treadmill today, and I will do some of the exercise I learnt from yesterday's PT to take it up to an hour's work out.

And then I have my first psychotherapy sessions at 10am. Has anyone had this before? I don't really know how it works - I have things I want to talk about, but where do I start? Cancer? Work? Parenting? Sex life? There seems too much to cover in 2 x 50 min sessions!

Then an enema, my hot liver compress, another walk if the weather holds.

Day 9:

Your weight loss is very good, Boobz It's natural this tails off as the available fat to burn diminishes.

You are probably down to the stubborn fat which have high concentrations of alpha receptors. You have the perfect regime - frequent exercise and v low sugar - to zap this fat, because it is v insulin sensitive.

It's not surprising if your running performance drops a bit: v few carbs consumed and v little fat left to burn for fuel.
However, once you leave the clinic and build up to eating TDEE, your performance may well be better than ever - not just because of the lost bodyfat, but because the fasting can build in resilience.

It will be very interesting if you can report also say a month after normal life on weight and running. You may gain a couple of lb water weight as you start eating more carbs, but that's fine.
I'm sure the clinic will say what to expect. I wonder what they recommend to build up to normal eating again.

I hope the psych stuff was positive, whatever it turned out to be in the end.

Day 9: 53.9

Sorry - I must have hit too soon in excitement there - am in the 53s!

BigChoc yes I think I am down to the thigh and muffin top now - always the last to go. Stomach itself is totally flat it's just the saddlebags and inner thigh - argh! I know I will get there, but am still hoping to get down another dress size and into the 51s before I go if I can. Might seem a bit far fetched now as I only have 2 more official fasting days left before re-feeding on Saturday and Sunday and then I go home. Would be amazing if I did get down to the 51s though (stop it, stop it - be happy with 53s!)

I ran 3 miles on the treadmill yesterday first thing, and it was a slog - no energy at all. Today I had osteopathy, psychotherapy and a large glass of fruit juice ("lunch") and then ran 6 miles after that - was a totally different run and did it in 51 mins - no problem at all?! So obviously having that little back realignment and kick of fructose made all the difference.

Am now showered and high off the endorphins knowing that really was a fat busting run as there is nothing else to convert energy from.

The psych stuff has been incredible - have had 2 sessions now and am booking one for tomorrow we are making so much ground.

Watched Eat Prey Love last night. I know it's schmaltsy, but I do feel like I am having my own mini journey over these 2 weeks. I feel so lucky to have been able to do it, after such a tough 2015.

Yes will come back and report in a month, if anyone else is interested.

Well, as you know: your flat tum indicates v low visceral fat; that remaining lower body fat has v little influence on health, certainly at your sort of bmi.
You've already achieved so much with this fast, whatever the end SV.