5:2 Thread number 53: You won't get the bum you want by sitting on the one you have. Come join us ! You may not reach your goal next week, but you'll be closer than you are now.

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced on BBC Horizon on August 2012:
Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means somewhere around the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

For most folk, 5:2 results in a weekly 3,000 calorie deficit, so averages 1 lb loss. However, some folk may lose much more quickly / slowly, or in fits & starts.
Initial weight loss may be much quicker, especially if you have a lot of weight to lose.

When you are within a healthy BMI range and just want to trim a few more lb, progress may be much slower and you may need to monitor carefully that you don't average above TDEE on non-fast days.

ACRONYMS & CALCULATORS:

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight normally needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI ( Body Mass Index ) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men) or 1000 cals for BF
If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful website or app to track food & drink caloriesi

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this over the week's NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that to maintain our new healthy weight longterm requires a permanent change in how we eat.

HOW TO START
==========

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator above as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators
Calorie Counter: mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Good2Know
Alcohol: Calc Safe , Calc Units
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Body Fat: Calc

FAQs / Tips:

• WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, just count any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice.

Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are good though!

Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.

• CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF. If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals

• To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,

optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.

• Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, have past or present EDs, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Browse previous 5:2 threads in the fasting section

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s thread collects practical tips and info we have gained over all the 5:2 threads. It is especially useful for newbies.

Inspirational: eatriskier’s Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.
Read to boost your motivation.
Add your own when you have lost weight too

Recipes: frenchfancy has collected FD recipes from all the threads.
Post your own here too.

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has a Thread for advice & support on combining 5:2 with a healthy exercise regime.
The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Maintaining: talkinpeace has a Thread for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining.
Some of those sharing experiences have been maintaining for 2 years, which shows 5:2 is sustainable longterm.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting
====================

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was fat, not muscle, which is unusually good for a diet.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease
Also this ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.

Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !

Thanks BC, that gives me hope!!

Morning all! Half term is over and it's back to normal routines here.
FD Monday after 1.5hrs of dancefit/weights class so feeling good.
Four weeks till a wedding of a close colleagues, and another three weeks after that is the evening do of my very fit (young!) fitness instructor so would like to shift some more lbs before both of those events

dotty, sounds like some nicely spaced goals to keep you on track.

Another FD here. As I am doing BFing fasts of 1000 kcal at the moment, I tend to skip breakfast (easy to do when rushing around trying to get children ready!) and either skip or have a light lunch, and then have the same dinner as everyone else, but with fewer carbs to meet my target. I really find that starting eating wakes up my appetite and is best avoided on FDs!

Bimble I do 16:8 most days now and LOVE it!

Find it so motivating reading everyone's posts.

Today is my 100th day logging on MFP........HORAAY! Had a weekend of opportunities for falling off track but I found it easy to eat until I was satisfied and then stop. This is a massive NSV for me. A complete change of mindset. I'm so pleased .

Day 1 here, FD.

have had black coffee and 1 hard boiled egg so far today, and lots of water.

Planning 2 chicken breast fillets with peri peri seasoning rub with steamed leek and courgettes and a sugar free jelly for this evening.

Working at home and tend to graze through out the day so trying not to think about it!

Hello all, just joining the thread.

I've 5:2'd in the past with some weight loss success and returning to it now that my DS2 is nearly 1. I tried it a few months ago, but due to sleep deprivation i just couldn't concentrate properly. DS2 is now thankfully sleeping through consistently so I've got the head-space and energy to recommit to 5:2.

First FD today and feeling weirdly relieved to be back on it! I've over-eaten massively while on maternity leave that it's nice to feel that I can break away from that. I'm the heaviest I've ever been, but confident I can lose a bit. I also find it quite energising being on 5:2... not so I actually do any hardcore exercise but I feel a lot better in myself day to day.

Glad to be back

Meerka I'm planning on drinking some bouillon too, thanks for the reminder!

FD here. Had my lunch at 12 as I was starving. Feeling quite tired now. Must go and get myself busy as food thoughts are starting to creep in!

Sorry if it's been covered up-thread but does anyone use a fitbit or similar together with MFP to help? wondering whether to get one to try to increase my day to day activity levels in the absence of any 'proper' exercise routine.

That's reassuring Knowler that you lost weight on 5:2 before. I agree with feeling more energised, I'm on my second fast day today and definitely feel more mentally alert than usual!

Lamblossum, that sounds like a lovely fast day dinner

So far today I've had an Ainsley Harriet cuppa soup, lots of water and herbal tea. I'm planning on quorn bolognese for dinner with broccoli on the side instead of pasta and a dollop of low fat creme fraiche instead of the usual liberal sprinkling of cheese. Feeling quite good today as I know I can make it through to dinner

Hello knowler, welcome back. Sleep deprivation is a killer! Glad your LO is allowing you some well deserved rest. Sounds like you're back into the swing of it already!

Well done letme! I can't manage a week of MFP.

Your tea sounds delish lamblosssom.

When I lost weight I ditched the clothes I'd slimmed out of and bought smaller sizes of funky, figure hugging clothes. I also bought a couple of long tops and some leggings to shove on if I was ever in a hurry, but I hide in these all too often. I don't know what suits me, so I buy random things that I don't have the confidence to wear. I convince myself I'm too fat to wear them, then reach for the leggings!

I'm sending them to the recycling bank today and on the advice of a friend I'm booking a slot with a personal shopper. Even the thought makes me feel nervous!

Octonauts
When I went to New York for a fortnight I put on 8 pounds.
And shifted the lot in 3 weeks of strict fasting
as it was mostly water and undigested food!

Bimble
You have the tools to achieve what you want : go for it.

Knowler
Welcome to the gang.
Its one of the coolest things about 5:2 is that fast days become something to look forward to rather than with conventional diets, dreading yet another day of hunger.
Upping the exercise is a really good call : just don't increase your food to compensate - as the idea it to make your body pull on the stores that are stashed on your hips

dustwitch - quorn bolognese is a great idea and i happen to have quorn mince in the fridge. Tea sorted.

talkinpeace - i am trying on the exercise front but haven't learnt from many years of experience, my best bet is to try to be more active day to day rather than committing to an expensive gym or saying i'll go jogging 5 times a week. it never happens

Thanks TiP, that's good to know. It feels good to be back on the wagon. Am just amazed at how much I must have over eaten. It shows why I was so overweight before! It took me 2 whole months to lose what it took just one week to put back on...very sobering.

Can't scroll back on my phone but to whoever mentioned the Ainsleu soups, I'm a big fan too! Also Waitrose and Tesco both do a chicken noodle that's only 43 calories and very tolerable for a FD

knowler i have a fitbit flex and I love it. I find it really keeps me focused on my levels of activity and is a real motivator on those days when it is a little bir harder to get moving. 8 have mine synced to MFP and it really helps.

knowler
even the teeny things can make a massive difference

• stand up when posting on MN (put the ipad on the worktop)
• always sit forwards on your chair so that your back muscles are constantly working
• run up the stairs not walk
• be the person in the house who jumps up to get the door / phone / whatever
• walk to places eg get off the bus a stop early
• walk a little bit faster than you normally would
• at the supermarket, never lean on your trolley and try to steer it with your hands in the middle of the handle not the ends try it, you'll be amazed how much harder it is
• march on the spot rather than just standing while chatting on the phone

just those small changes will burn a couple of hundred extra calories a day and tone your muscles.

Drinking my bouillon now. Got distracted by DS's cheesestick

Not feeling hungry at all at the moment.

Good luck everyone!

First FD of week 2 here and I'm feeling surprisingly fine

I skipped breakfast other than tea, had soup for lunch and am having leftover vegetable stew for tea

I've had a rather stressful and v expensive day with an emergency trip to the vet so I've not really had time to think about being hungry (wouldn't recommend this as a standard way of dealing with fast days through ...)

Hope your pet is okay now, Basildon, sounds like a rather stressful day - well done for sticking to the FD.

Good to be back here. FD done, kitchen is now closed. Dinner wasn't especially nice, but hopefully it's filled me up, so not too bothered! Have come in at about 525, which I'm pretty pleased about as my first FD in months.

Knowler - I've grown addicted to my FitBit flex over the past 15 months. I found that it really does make you look at your behaviour (activity-wise!) in a different way and change how you do things. I have also been known to spend my evenings watching TV and jogging on the spot in order to make my target!

Now for an evening of water and an early night!

Omigod I am now absolutely ravenous....Dh cooking tea now thank god. I was fine till about 5.30......

Not a FD for me today, but still tracking on mfp and pleased with my total for today. Must, must keep tracking what I eat - too easy for me to eat a load of crap and 'forget' about it. FD tomorrow - off to plan it on MFP. It is slightly addictive!

Much, much better FD here today and I'm sure it's because I was hydrated.

Chicken teriyaki protein pot 166 cals for lunch and superfood rainbow salad (quinoa, broccoli, beetroot, feta) 280 cals for dinner.

Enough calories left for an options hot chocolate later yay!

Thanks talkinpeace, some v helpful stuff. It's amazing how easy it is to be almost completely sedentary for 8 hours when at work ((I'm in an office) and it is so bad for me.

"
bimble - I'm off to look at fitbits

knowler
Offices are tricky : when I work I just sit as well.

Can you swap your office chair for a swiss ball - as then you are secretly doing a couple of hours of pilates a day ?

Also, make a point of lifting one of your feet three inches off the ground, hold for two minutes and switch - all the while sitting tall and forwards on your chair.

Have coffee / snacks standing up rather than sitting.
If you can, stand up while on the phone - it makes your voice sound deeper and more authoritative as a bonus.

Clench your buttocks and hold for a count of 10, three times an hour, every hour

and lastly, make a point of stretching your arms right up above your head once an hour to maintain shoulder flexibility.

who needs a gym

Welcome Knowler, Blossom Not long to go until you've nailed your 1st FD

If it's difficult to commit regular chunks of time for exercise, try 5x5:
on 5 days per week, do a 5 minute Fat Blast at home, from the ExerciseThread3 OP.
Mosely presented research suggesting that although they obv don't burn many cals, they can improve insulin metabolism, which may help fat burning over the weeks.

Welcome back, Bimble You'll soon be back in your old 5:2 swing.
A 5 lb gain is not bad after 3 months of sugar, no fasts or real exercise. Once you return to happy weight, you should be able to maintain quite easily with a weekly FD to give you that margin when you want to indulge.

That's a really important lifestyle NSV, Bus
if you've learned to eat until satisfied on NFDs, then stop. Congrats too on your mfp century.

I hope your pet is ok now, Basil They are part of the family (just not on the NHS, unfortunately)

Great idea about the personal shopper, Maz You want to show off your bod to its best advantage and walk tall, not hide in baggies.

Good luck with your 2 events, Dotty You'll also want to feel at your best. So, remind yourself if ever those damn munchies try to sneak in.

BFers
You can start at 1000 cal FDs and either stay there or gradually reduce to 700 when you feel ready. You can always return to 1000 cals for growth spurts or bad sleep deprivation.

FD, salt, headaches
If you feel weak or headachey during an FD, first make sure you are drinking enough, but also have a teasp of Marmite or a tbsp unsweetened soy sauce (each 10 cals). This replenishes salt and minerals which may be low due to eating much less and drinking more.

Alternatively a cup of hot Bovril is also 10 cals. I have this as my starter instead of soup on FDs.

Also, this is not the time to give up your caffeine fix if you are used to it - or that may cause headaches too, or other withdrawal symptoms. Just try to have it without sugar and include any milk cals in your FD total.