5:2 / IF Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 3: Advice and information for those following Intermittent Fasting .... and anyone else too

[BigChocFrenzy]

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Recent Research showed that lack of exercise is twice as likely to lead to premature death as being obese (BMI 30 -35)

Body Fat, Exercise & Diet
People who maintain their weight through diet alone without exercise are likely to have major deposits of visceral fat (the more dangerous kind around organs), even if BMI is ok.

They are TOFIs (Thin Outside, Fat Inside)

A MRI study found that:
45 % of women and nearly 60% of men with “healthy” BMI, had excessive levels of visceral fat i.e. clinically overweight

A Can J Card study showed visceral fat can be burned off via exercise, even if weight is unchanged (increased lean mass)

Hormesis

Hormesis, see Mattson , BlackSwan and Stronger is cutting edge science for nutrition & fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between “extremes” - e.g. feast & fast (5:2 / IF) , intense training & rest (HIIT) - makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs (Fast Days), seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for sessions of up to 90 mins.

TYPES of Exercise

Main types: Aerobic, anaerobic, flexibility.

All exercise will burn fat, the more intense the faster the fat burn

Anaerobic
e.g. HIIT (see below), sprints, strength training
. Shorter training period
. Increases the RMR (Resting Metabolic Rate) for up to 48 hrs
. Soon increases fitness
. May help correct insulin metabolism issues & target abs fat.

Aerobic
e.g. walking, running, cycling, swimming
. Longer training period
. May burn more calories during exercise, if it is lasts much longer than HIIT, but burns fewer afterwards
. It is easier to do for the less fit

Flexibility, Stability, Relaxation
e.g. yoga, stretching

The best exercise routine is one you enjoy and is sustainable.

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are especially recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

HOW to Exercise

If you are a very overweight unfit beginner:
. Check with your GP before starting exercise
. Start by walking 5-10 mins twice per day, gradually increase
. Try walk intervals: alternating 1 min faster pace, 1 min normal
. Build up to a brisk 30 mins daily walk and you will significantly improve your health & fitness
. Swimming is also good, preferably crawl or back stroke for less strain on back & joints.

Everyone Else:
Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

• Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
• Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve. But stop immediately if you feel any sharp pain.
• You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !

Efficiency / Intensity: This Study proved that at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less intense recovery periods

. Very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis)

. Increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

. May improve insulin metabolism, very important for health and abs fat.

. Reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT can be applied to cardio or to bodyweight exercises, at home or gym.
Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek (=HIIT with irregular intervals)

FAST Exercise

"No time" to exercise ?
Or want to boost fitness & fat-burning metabolism

Dr Mosely developed a FastExerciseProgram to complement his 5:2 WOE
His Fast HIIT and strength routines can significantly improve metabolism & fat-burning capability

Other scientists like Tabata have developed routines now wisely incorporated in training.

HIIT Fitness Blasts

A few mins per day, 3-5 days per week

START with 2 mins warmup then EITHER

Sprint or Rope-skipping intervals
. 1 minute sprinting / skipping @ max effort +90 secs jogging to recover
. Do 5 intervals

OR

Fast Blasts
Choose from:
Running, stationary bike @ low resistance, rope-skipping, burpees, jumping jacks, spotty dog, punching air or bag, step-ups, swimming, squats, lunges, pressups, tricep dips, situps ... or any combination you like.

Choose type of Blast:

4-minute Blast
. 4 mins @ 90% effort

OR "Tabata" = 8 x intervals of 20 secs @ 100% effort + 10 secs recovery @ rest or slow speed
( FreeTimerApp )

OR 2 x20-sec intervals=
. 20-sec @ 100% effort
. 2 mins walk to recover
. 20-sec @ 100% effort

END any HIIT or Fat Blast with a few mins cooldown walk / jog

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
Lift at home / in the gym weights area / in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of lifts
Sets are separated by brief rests
E.g. 3 sets of 12 reps = 36 lifts
Breathing: Inhale before lifting, exhale while lifting. Don't hold your breath.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups
Video

• The best upper body exercise
• Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor
• Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
• Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
• Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
• Also build up via inclined pressups IncPress , see bottom of wiki page
• To increase the number of pushups IncNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

• The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs
• Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat

-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes

• Bring your arms forward
• Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical
• Squat down as far as you can without knee pain or hunching your back
• Push up from your heels, exhaling.

Pullups

• Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
• Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup / InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
Squat BentOverRow (press button "female")
BehindNeckPress (press button "female")
DeadLift

To increase Strength
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts

To Build Muscle
Lift lower weight, 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts

To Build Endurance
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight for 3-5 mins, preferably without pauses

BUM / GLUTES
Squats & lunges are excellent
Also this 2-min bodyweight workout especially for women, targeting the bum:
WorkYourBum

ABS
Choose the exercises & number of reps for your fitness level

The plank
. Start at 2 x 15 secs. Build up to 2 x 45 secs
. Advanced:

1. Use TRX slings, picture 2

Side plank + hip raises
. If you can, keep the side of 1 foot plus 1 forearm on the floor, free arm straight up in the air, picture 3
. Easier - free hand on your hip. Easier still - keep calf & knee on the floor, instead of bent at the knees
. Start at 3 sets of 3. Build up to 3 x 30

Leg raises
. Lie flat on your back, with legs bent to 90 degrees
. Lower the legs one at a time to 1" above the floor (straight leg if you can) then raise again
. Start at 3 sets of 3 each leg. Build up to 3 x 15
. Advanced:

1. Lower both legs at the same time

Situps
. Hands forward to really work abs & avoid pulling the neck
. Alternatively, cross your arms over your chest
. Start at 3 sets of 3. Build up to 3 x 30
. Advanced:

1. Raise legs to 90 degrees & bring them towards you when you situp (double crunch)
2. Legs nearly flat on the floor
3. One leg bent at 90 degrees, the other held straight 1" above the floor
4. Hold a weight disc / dumbbells / barbell above your head

Angled Situps
. Lie on your back and rest one ankle on the opposite knee
. Angled situp so your opposite elbow touches the knee
. Keep the other hand be in the air by your knee, or alternatively supporting your head - do NOT pull on the neck
. Build up to 3 sets of 20 each side
. Advanced:

1. with dumbell
2. Situps with legs rotated 90 degrees to the left, resting on floor. Then repeat set with legs rotated to the right, on floor
3. Lie on the floor, rotate legs 90 degrees to the left. Raise and lower legs like that, keeping back on the floor. Repeat set with legs on other side
4. Keep legs raised & rotated to the left and do situps (double side crunch) Repeat with legs raised & rotated to the right

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve GRIP STRENGTH GripStrength , GripBuild

RUNNERS

. Sprinting improves fitness
. Regular 5 - 10 km runs burn significant fat, especially fasted

Running illustrates the "J or S-curve" effect, where increasing exercise improves health, up to a certain point, after which health worsens e.g. MayoClinic , RiceUni , JMed :

. Running 20 mins improves immune system

. A run of 90+ mins may weaken the immune system for up to 3 days.
With insufficient recovery periods, the damage is cumulative.
Elite runners have immune systems that handle that strain

. Long races 20k+ may cause micro-tears to the heart muscle in some runners, hence a 2-week recovery period is recommended.

CALCULATORS:
Calories Burned for specific exercises: ExerciseCals
Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Running Calories burned: RunningCals
Running Standards: Age-RelatedRunCalculator
TDEE 24hr activity times & body fat TDEE-Detail

Ah ha, note to self, read the OP thoroughly!

Thanks Bread, I'll try that way. I guess it's like starting with the declines in pull ups too?

Nice to find somewhere I can indulge my lapsed fitness geekery :)

B&W You want to have those muscle trained & loose, but fully tested and fresh.
The sweet spot.
I suggest 2 x 1 minute sets flat out every other day, with no upper body on the recovery day - do legs & cardio.
Have a full rest day from exercise directly before the challenge and on the day, if you wish, just do a set of 8 in the morning.
Do us proud ! < fist bumps >

Welcome, Inspector

Short bursts are excellent for fitness and improving insulin metabolism.
We recommend HIIT and lifting as being especially suited to IF; a smiliar principle of hormesis: intermittent short high load increasing resilience.

HIIT:
. I think you'd like adding the Fat Blasts, a few mins per day on 5 days per week.
. I suggest you download a free Tabata App and do sprint intervals outdoors. Other days do rope skipping.
. You would probably also like plyometrics, e.g. box jump, burpees, chest throw & rebound (med ball)

Longer Calorie Burning Cardio
Optional, if you do HIIT & lifting
. HIIT spin class can be very strenuous
. Also boxing or any martial art.

Running:
. If you run for health, 20-30 mins seems optimal. It boosts the immune system.
. However, a 90 minute fast run lowers the immune system for up to 3 days. .
. Marathons can create micro-tears in the heart, hence the need for 2 weeks recovery.
. No need to run if you dislike it. Just concentrate on what you enjoy, so you do it regularly.

Pressups:
Keep your abs & core rigid, so your body is in a straight line from shoulders to heels.
Some male PTs in particular can be very gungho about nearly touching the floor - this often leads to joint injury. Instead, imagine a fist sideways on the floor and aim to touch that with the middle of your chest (may be tricky for the larger-norked)

As you may have read, some research advises a brisk walk for 15 mins after a lifting session, so any remaining mobilised fat is burned, not stored again. It's probably a good cooldown for your CV system too

Calorie intake & choices are important when trimming to be ripped (different for those with a few stone to lose)

Suggestions:
. FDs should be 500, unless your TDEE is > 2000, in which case you can optionally do 25% TDEE.
. FDs must be reasonably healthy, completely free of booze & sugary junk.
. Excellent to have all your cals in 1 meal, after training - maximum fat-burning.
. NFDs should average within TDEE for 5:2, or you are eating back the calorie deficit. It is on ADF (Alternate Day Fasting) that you can lose on 120% TDEE
. Avoid snacking / grazing / nibbling even on NFDs - it keeps insulin raised and hinders fat-burning.
Eat 2-4 meals per day, with any alcohol or food "treat" as part of the meal.
I know, heresy in some fitness circles
. Aim for 2 litres water each day
. Alcohol stops fat burning until the liver has processed all the toxic byproducts. So, alcohol stops fat-burning for however many hours it takes. Excess fat is oreferentially stored around your middle, where you least want it.
So, keep within nhs safe limits. Good for your liver & general health too.

That's really helpful, thank you!

Looks like I should keep within 1,800 calories on NFDs then, which is actually a decent amount; I still have 900 left for today (although will likely roll some over to the weekend).

One more - probably daft - question: Should I not eat any of my exercise calories over the week? If my TDEE is 1,800 then I stick to that as an average regardless of activity?

Inspector Don't eat back calories from a fitbit or other calculation of cals burned.
If you want to account for exercise, then calculate TDEE with your activity level set realistically - "moderately active" is up to 5 days at the gym.
If you want to lose more quickly, just use sedentary TDEE.
Lots of info about 5:2, TDEE calculator etc in the [[http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/fasting_diet/2593674-5-2-Thread-number-62-If-God-wanted-me-to-touch-my-toes-she-d-have-put-chocolate-on-the-floor-There-s-a-more-scientific-approach-to-nutrition-fitness-in-our-friendly-support-group?watched=1&msgid=59897570#59897570 5:2 Thread #62 OP, including a geeky section at the end "Scientific Evidence for Fasting"

Btw, what also helps building strength to go down low in pressups is doing benchpress oscillations (bar up & down rapidly) with the bar held at the very lowest position, so upper arm is below 90 degrees.
Mainly, it's persisting with the full pressups and adding hand release ones.
Also try different forms like diamond, or one hand on a medicine ball. This helps train all the muscles at different angles & loading.

oh, I hate the App sometimes 5:2 Main thread #62

Thanks BC. Loads of really useful reading in these threads which I've been taking in over the last couple of days.

I'm genuinely excited at the prospect of testing myself with push ups this weekend and building up to more reps!

I did my second FD yesterday but didn't manage to get to the gym (so tired, and massive DOMS from Tuesday) but I had a pretty vigorous tennis lesson first thing this morning on an empty stomach so am hoping that counts as fasted exercise too, despite yesterday's 500 cal dinner.

I'm going to try and hold out until after lunch to eat today - I have stuffed mushrooms, poached egg, avocado and grilled tomatoes planned. If I can manage 1000 cals today then I'll have some spare for the weekend which would suit me much better as I do love food and don't want to feel restricted when I'm with my OH.

Thanks again for the advice!

I'd count training as fasted if you haven't consumed calories for at least the previous 10 hrs, even if the previous day wasn't an FD.

Hi everyone, did my second body pump class yesterday (v v late so no time for fat blast before) but lifted heavier weights and more achey today. It wasn't a FD but it didn't feel significantly easier for having eaten in the day so I think I will try it fasted from now on. Also have been persuaded by a buddy to go to a circuits class on Sunday morning so with my Tuesday circuits that will be 3 workouts a week. When I'm back at work though my Tuesday sessions will have to stop and I think I will try skipping in the garden!! Will prob have the Rocky theme tune running through my head!!

Onwards and upwards. bread was the challenge today!!?

Good progress and it's motivating to go with someone.
3 times per week is much better than 2, to increase fitness & strength.
Since the Sunday class is morning, you could try that fasted. Or maybe see what it's like first; if you eat, just have a small meal with protein 2-3 hours beforehand.

Well done persis , sounds good!

b&w - challenge day? Hoping you're having a celebratory vino as we speak!

No exercise done this week due to trip away, but have 5 days without DC next week so hoping to get in 2 x training walks (one big one - 17 miles probably, and one 4/5 speed miles)

Hi folks

We saved the challenge until this morning, since DS arrived pretty late last night, and I have to say it went OK! DS did 52 and I managed 55 - I didn't do any loosening up beforehand, unfortunately, or I might have done more.

DS was well impressed - even more so when I showed him my records, including my PB of 69 - and was enthusiastic about my fund-raising idea. He thought that to avoid any damage to my rotator cuffs, it would be as well to avoid the long continuous stints, but instead to limit each set to 20 or less. Since I’m aiming for 17 every minute, this fits in well with what I’m planning. He also suggested I get a T-shirt printed for the event - I might be able to get sponsorship for this.

So, all in all, for the moment, Dad rules! But watch this space!

Congratulations, B&W < croaking tuneless chorus of "We are the Champions")
Dad rocks !
This news of your prowess will spread and impress the whole of tribe B&W
Iirc, your DS is an RAF PT instructor ? If so, he may or may not share the news with the lads there !

wahoo well done b&w we knew you would do it!

Thanks, folks!

No, he's not a PTI - just a very fit guy. I've no doubt he'll put a bit of emphasis on press ups when he's training over the coming weeks and ask for a rematch at some time!

But now down to the serious fund-raising training. Tonight, whilst the paper reviews were on the TV, I did a set of 20 every minute, and got up to 320 in 15:20. Interestingly, as I got into it, I was doing the sets in17/18 seconds, even when I was up to 280. Going for sets of 20 will give me some scope for dropping them down to sets of 17 if I find I'm losing my form as I get well into the hour.

Theoretically, I could do 340 in sets of 20, 330 in sets of 17 and 330 in sets of 14 if I was flagging, and still get to 1000 in under an hour.

I think I could do that now, but I want to train for another month or two, to make sure I can manage it without any hitches. I reckon 1200 is possible!

amazing!!!

Circuits was great - mix of ages and abilities and a nice instructor. I told him all my problems and he was v sympathetic! I am struggling a bit with lofting things (found that at body pump too) as my core is so weak.....but am trying to at least do my planks every day so that hopefully that will improve. Need to find a way to fit a 3rd session in when I go back to work as will lose my Tuesday circuits.....but will be walking 1.5 miles each way so hopefully that will tide me over til I get settled and can sort out a formal session!!

mrd when is the big day!!?!

Thanks, Persis - and you have a celebration of your own, I see from the main thread!

I am at my target and have stayed there for 8 days (!!!)

That's so good to hear - I've just done a salsa turn around the kitchen for your achievement!

Salsa you say!!

We should plan some kind of flash mob for mrd for the moonwalk!!!

And thank you

Lots of great exercise NSVs and plans, I see.
B&W For your contest, I suggest you outline a schedule to do 1000 pressups in 55 mins, so you have a little leeway for the tough final sets.
Then you could practice the first 500 on that schedule once per week.

I'd recommend aiming for no more than 1000 for the contest, so you don't exhaust yourself early on and not reach 1000. If you managed 1,000 within 55-59 mins you can always cram in a few extra at that point.
Save the 1200 target for a later time, so you still have something to aim for later

Most impressive to see all the dancers

Hey all, thought I'd better join here for some exercise motivation too. I've just finished jillian michael's shred it with kettle bells - first workout I've done in three years. That was tough and I stopped and hobbled to the couch to pant for a bit halfway through, but I am very unfit now. Still, I did it! And I'll do it again tomorrow if I can - I need to get the hang of those moves.

I will also walk to work tomorrow.

Thanks, BC - I certainly aim to have some leeway when I make my attempt.

About my dancing - I could not dance a step until I went to Cuba in around 2000, where it was "Salsa lessons by the pool, 6-7pm," and I picked it up then.

I'm a great fan of Strictly Come Dancing (stay with this - it's absolutely exercise-related!), and in my mind's eye I've got a picture of Brendon, standing on one leg, on his toes, leaning to one side and giving 3 short, sharp flicks with the other leg.

It's my intention to replicate this, and, to that end, whenever I get the chance, I practice standing on the toes of one foot, to strengthen the muscles. Wherever I'm standing waiting - at the bus stop, in a supermarket queue, there I am, standing alternately on the tippy toes of each foot. I don't do the moves! I'm not daft - I wait until I'm in my kitchen, where, unobserved, I can kick to my heart's content, with some slowish (I'm getting faster) salsa-type music on.

Hi panda, didn't see you there! Welcome to the thread - this is the start of a whole, new, you!