5:2 / IF Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 3: Advice and information for those following Intermittent Fasting .... and anyone else too

[BigChocFrenzy]

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Recent Research showed that lack of exercise is twice as likely to lead to premature death as being obese (BMI 30 -35)

Body Fat, Exercise & Diet
People who maintain their weight through diet alone without exercise are likely to have major deposits of visceral fat (the more dangerous kind around organs), even if BMI is ok.

They are TOFIs (Thin Outside, Fat Inside)

A MRI study found that:
45 % of women and nearly 60% of men with “healthy” BMI, had excessive levels of visceral fat i.e. clinically overweight

A Can J Card study showed visceral fat can be burned off via exercise, even if weight is unchanged (increased lean mass)

Hormesis

Hormesis, see Mattson , BlackSwan and Stronger is cutting edge science for nutrition & fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between “extremes” - e.g. feast & fast (5:2 / IF) , intense training & rest (HIIT) - makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs (Fast Days), seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for sessions of up to 90 mins.

TYPES of Exercise

Main types: Aerobic, anaerobic, flexibility.

All exercise will burn fat, the more intense the faster the fat burn

Anaerobic
e.g. HIIT (see below), sprints, strength training
. Shorter training period
. Increases the RMR (Resting Metabolic Rate) for up to 48 hrs
. Soon increases fitness
. May help correct insulin metabolism issues & target abs fat.

Aerobic
e.g. walking, running, cycling, swimming
. Longer training period
. May burn more calories during exercise, if it is lasts much longer than HIIT, but burns fewer afterwards
. It is easier to do for the less fit

Flexibility, Stability, Relaxation
e.g. yoga, stretching

The best exercise routine is one you enjoy and is sustainable.

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are especially recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

HOW to Exercise

If you are a very overweight unfit beginner:
. Check with your GP before starting exercise
. Start by walking 5-10 mins twice per day, gradually increase
. Try walk intervals: alternating 1 min faster pace, 1 min normal
. Build up to a brisk 30 mins daily walk and you will significantly improve your health & fitness
. Swimming is also good, preferably crawl or back stroke for less strain on back & joints.

Everyone Else:
Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

• Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
• Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve. But stop immediately if you feel any sharp pain.
• You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !

Efficiency / Intensity: This Study proved that at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less intense recovery periods

. Very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis)

. Increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

. May improve insulin metabolism, very important for health and abs fat.

. Reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT can be applied to cardio or to bodyweight exercises, at home or gym.
Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek (=HIIT with irregular intervals)

FAST Exercise

"No time" to exercise ?
Or want to boost fitness & fat-burning metabolism

Dr Mosely developed a FastExerciseProgram to complement his 5:2 WOE
His Fast HIIT and strength routines can significantly improve metabolism & fat-burning capability

Other scientists like Tabata have developed routines now wisely incorporated in training.

HIIT Fitness Blasts

A few mins per day, 3-5 days per week

START with 2 mins warmup then EITHER

Sprint or Rope-skipping intervals
. 1 minute sprinting / skipping @ max effort +90 secs jogging to recover
. Do 5 intervals

OR

Fast Blasts
Choose from:
Running, stationary bike @ low resistance, rope-skipping, burpees, jumping jacks, spotty dog, punching air or bag, step-ups, swimming, squats, lunges, pressups, tricep dips, situps ... or any combination you like.

Choose type of Blast:

4-minute Blast
. 4 mins @ 90% effort

OR "Tabata" = 8 x intervals of 20 secs @ 100% effort + 10 secs recovery @ rest or slow speed
( FreeTimerApp )

OR 2 x20-sec intervals=
. 20-sec @ 100% effort
. 2 mins walk to recover
. 20-sec @ 100% effort

END any HIIT or Fat Blast with a few mins cooldown walk / jog

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
Lift at home / in the gym weights area / in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of lifts
Sets are separated by brief rests
E.g. 3 sets of 12 reps = 36 lifts
Breathing: Inhale before lifting, exhale while lifting. Don't hold your breath.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups
Video

• The best upper body exercise
• Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor
• Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
• Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
• Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
• Also build up via inclined pressups IncPress , see bottom of wiki page
• To increase the number of pushups IncNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

• The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs
• Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat

-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes

• Bring your arms forward
• Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical
• Squat down as far as you can without knee pain or hunching your back
• Push up from your heels, exhaling.

Pullups

• Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
• Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup / InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
Squat BentOverRow (press button "female")
BehindNeckPress (press button "female")
DeadLift

To increase Strength
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts

To Build Muscle
Lift lower weight, 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts

To Build Endurance
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight for 3-5 mins, preferably without pauses

BUM / GLUTES
Squats & lunges are excellent
Also this 2-min bodyweight workout especially for women, targeting the bum:
WorkYourBum

ABS
Choose the exercises & number of reps for your fitness level

The plank
. Start at 2 x 15 secs. Build up to 2 x 45 secs
. Advanced:

1. Use TRX slings, picture 2

Side plank + hip raises
. If you can, keep the side of 1 foot plus 1 forearm on the floor, free arm straight up in the air, picture 3
. Easier - free hand on your hip. Easier still - keep calf & knee on the floor, instead of bent at the knees
. Start at 3 sets of 3. Build up to 3 x 30

Leg raises
. Lie flat on your back, with legs bent to 90 degrees
. Lower the legs one at a time to 1" above the floor (straight leg if you can) then raise again
. Start at 3 sets of 3 each leg. Build up to 3 x 15
. Advanced:

1. Lower both legs at the same time

Situps
. Hands forward to really work abs & avoid pulling the neck
. Alternatively, cross your arms over your chest
. Start at 3 sets of 3. Build up to 3 x 30
. Advanced:

1. Raise legs to 90 degrees & bring them towards you when you situp (double crunch)
2. Legs nearly flat on the floor
3. One leg bent at 90 degrees, the other held straight 1" above the floor
4. Hold a weight disc / dumbbells / barbell above your head

Angled Situps
. Lie on your back and rest one ankle on the opposite knee
. Angled situp so your opposite elbow touches the knee
. Keep the other hand be in the air by your knee, or alternatively supporting your head - do NOT pull on the neck
. Build up to 3 sets of 20 each side
. Advanced:

1. with dumbell
2. Situps with legs rotated 90 degrees to the left, resting on floor. Then repeat set with legs rotated to the right, on floor
3. Lie on the floor, rotate legs 90 degrees to the left. Raise and lower legs like that, keeping back on the floor. Repeat set with legs on other side
4. Keep legs raised & rotated to the left and do situps (double side crunch) Repeat with legs raised & rotated to the right

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve GRIP STRENGTH GripStrength , GripBuild

RUNNERS

. Sprinting improves fitness
. Regular 5 - 10 km runs burn significant fat, especially fasted

Running illustrates the "J or S-curve" effect, where increasing exercise improves health, up to a certain point, after which health worsens e.g. MayoClinic , RiceUni , JMed :

. Running 20 mins improves immune system

. A run of 90+ mins may weaken the immune system for up to 3 days.
With insufficient recovery periods, the damage is cumulative.
Elite runners have immune systems that handle that strain

. Long races 20k+ may cause micro-tears to the heart muscle in some runners, hence a 2-week recovery period is recommended.

CALCULATORS:
Calories Burned for specific exercises: ExerciseCals
Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Running Calories burned: RunningCals
Running Standards: Age-RelatedRunCalculator
TDEE 24hr activity times & body fat TDEE-Detail

As you can't borrow B&W's (one & only) belt he uses as a waist check, maybe judge by previously too tight jeans.
I'm surprised there is no dressmaker shop or haberdashery that sells a tape measure - have you asked around ?

yeah i've asked around and looked - there probably is somewhere majorly tucked away that sells such things but no one knows of one. i'll keep looking. just did the body frame one by the elbow width using my son's ruler from his pencil case to measure the finger distance. guess i could use a belt and try to use the ruler to measure along it but thinking that won't be the most accurate method will keep asking around otherwise a friend is bringing one when they come out next month.

i didn't see that thread but i can well believe it - i know i've felt like that when younger. it's really just recently that my health and the concept of wanting my body to be strong and resilient has really hit home for me. otherwise it's been a 'thing' that i happen to be attached to or a thing whose aesthetics i wasn't happy with etc. i think we have very strange attitudes to our bodies in general - as if they were not 'us' but just some vehicle we move around in that we don't identify with and only really notice if it lets us down in some way such as in disease. now i'm vaguely remembering having to read a philosopher who looked at this at uni - going to have to go google now.

Easy No-Tape Frame Size
Wrap your thumb and middle finger around the other wrist, at the smallest diameter, just above the wrist bone:
. If your fingers overlap, you have a small frame.
. If they just meet, you have a medium frame.
. If they don't touch, your frame is large

see the trouble i have with that theory is that i have freakishly long fingers and toes also my sister who you can see has diddy bones under the fat has really short fingers and uses this measure to convince herself she has big bones.

going by the elbow measurement or just with the eyes i am large framed - going with the fingers round your wrist i'm small/medium

also those kind of bangles that open and then clip into place never fit me and buying rings i am really restricted because they don't have many that fit me (not big enough sizes). beginning to think my body is just weird

Also those frame measurements are all upper body so don't really work for pear shapes. I come out small framed but my waist is 27'' and hips are 38" so probably a medium on bottom half.

i've upped my couner push ups to 25 per set today. i realise i technically 'should' have moved to modified on your knees push ups instead BUT i find i can get the proper alignment and use of muscles with this method, as in engaging abs, good straight line, etc so for now i'd rather do more of these than do a poorer technique in a supposedly superior way? does that make sense or am i being a woos?

Knee pushups are really only for those newbies who are very heavy and need to be v careful of back & joints.
I'd say continue with the inclined pressups, but if you can do sets of 25 it's time to reduce the angle, i.e. hands on something lower, say a bench.
Also, try the Hand Release Pressup which is starting from lying down, then raising, but you release hands each time, see Video at the bottom of the OP

hand release ones undo the good work of the right line for me - end up lifting chest then middle then bum in a worm fashion. i can't get up from them in a good straight line. good idea to go for a lower surface to do the inclined ones from. counter is waist height and i've been increasing intensity by stepping further away so far so more weight is tipped forward. will try the bed next i guess with some good grippy shoes. may have to reduce number in a set initially but will build it up again.

I find fasted training especially easy if the evening before was exceptionally greedy
After an enormous & delic restaurant blowout last night of 5 courses , I did fasted training from 11am to nearly 2pm:

. A high caffeine drink to help make body fat more available for fuel
. 1 hr HIIT spin
. 90 mins heavy lifting for a full body workout - 5 x 5 / 10 x 3 / 15 x 2 / 40-30-30 - for the various main muscle groups, with 20 - 141 kg.
Plus sets of bodyweight squats, lunges, dips and pressups too, of course.
. 45 mins inclined treadmill walk, to continue burning the fat that should have mobilised.
. A shake with 25g whey protein plus 250 ml almond milk, sweetened with Stevia.
I don't usually need shakes, but I didn't want to wait to feed those muscles until after I showered, cycled home & cooked.

I've eaten well now and I'll have an early night, so my muscles can repair.

Wow!

"Exercising in your 40s can stop your brain from shrinking!"

Headline in one of the papers tomorrow - think it's the Torygraph.

Apparently your brain naturally shrinks with age - but exercise can stop this happening.

Morning all, did Body Combat after my fast yesterday and it's definitely getting easier. Great class. It's one of my faves.

Some questions for the wonderful BigChocFrenzy:

1. How important is it to consume protein after weight lifting? Currently I have two scoops of diet protein powder about 30mins after lifting but it often 'spoils' my fasting (I like large zero-calorie periods of fasting).

1. Is it true that women should eat before working out in order to get the most effective fat burn? (20% more burn, I read).

1. If I did short bouts of high intensity cardio throughout the day (say, 2 mins every 2 hours), would this keep my metabolism raised? Would this routine be worth pursuing?

< examines self for signs of wonderfulness. Fail ! >

Geordie

1. For optimum muscle build results, most women need at least 40g protein daily; preferably over 1g per kg body weight. So, it depends on when the fasting period started.

IIRC, you are 16:8
If you skipped breakfast & lunch, I recommend protein shake before and after evening training.
If you had at least 40g protein at breakfast and / or lunch, no need to eat before breakfast the next day.
I go by how I feel: Have a shake if you feel really drained after a tough session.

2. No, not true. In fact anyone with insulin resistance, premeno, postmenu would find it much easier to burn fat if they train fasted. Lifting, HIIT, martial arts, any intense exercise works well fasted.

The advice is more for runners (it is often assumed women don't lift) or others who do other medium intensity cardio for long stretches - some find it difficult to mobilise sufficient fat for fuel.
However, our Anglaise can run fasted, iirc, just not in a race.

3. That sounds a real faff that would raise cortisol ! Overstressing the system can reduce fitness. Mosely recommends his Fat Blasts of a few mins, see the OP here, but only 1 per day on 5 days per week.

Otherwise, aim for 30-90 mins proper exercise on 3-6 days per week.
Best to avoid long periods of sitting during the day or evening: use a standing desk at work, go for short walks in the breaks, don't flop for hours in front of the TV - we avoid this temptation by going to the gym !

Thanks BigChoc (You are wonderful btw! Much respect to you).

Interesting that it's assumed women don't lift (and sad as lifting is important for both genders). I love lifting! Love feeling strong. It's really boosted my confidence after getting out of an abusive relationship.

VERY useful to be reminded of cortisol, thank you. I know it encourages fat deposits around the waist. Will concentrate my workouts within a 2 hour period. I got confused because Mosely mentioned the importance of sporadic exercise dispersed throughout the day in one of his docs.

What supplements do you use BigChoc?

By sporadic exercise, I undertood DrM meant getting up from your desk for 2 mins walk every hour or so, because prolonged sitting is bad for us.
Plus one Fat Blast, which just lasts a few minutes, on 5 days per week.

I suggest from Holland & Barrett these supps:
. Fish Oil 1200 mg containing 600 mg Omega 3.
. Vit B Complex
. Vit D3
. Evening Primrose Oil - for women only, not useful for B&W

and from Metagenics:
. Cal Apatite Bone Builder with Magnesium. This is far better for your bones than standard Calcium Carbonate or mineral complex tabs.

i'm sorry to hear you are another Mumsnetter who has suffered abuse, but good on you for getting away and making a better life
I totally agree that too few women value muscle and lifting.
I'm proud of my muscle - I worked damn hard for it and I love being strong.

Despite this pic, I don't knock Zumba or yoga - the important thing is that people find exercises they enjoy enough to do regularly

Big Choc have you been listening to the Radio 4 Food programme 3 part series 'Eat to Run'? It has been really interesting (well, at least to me as a runner, but for any sporty person there is interesting nutritional advice) In part 2 last week they were talking about how running in a fasted state helps build endurance. A lot of élite runners train when fasted for this reason.

Sounds interesting, Anglaise Who are the scientists being quoted ?
I have to admit I don't listen to radio, probably because I gave up driving for cycling in 2000. I haven't switched on the TV since NYE either.
< retreats into hermit's cave >

I advocate fasted training for those who can do so, because it does burn more fat.
For those struggling to lose peri / meno gain, fasted training is one tactic that can break through the hormonal swirl.

Interesting if it also helps athletic performance, but not unexpected:
it is, after all, our food friend hormesis again, building resilience.

our good friend hormesis < decides it's bedtime now >

BigChoc if I remember correctly it was a doctor from the English Institute of Sports who work a lot with the UK athletics team who was talking, I'm afraid I don't have a study to refer to. And when the programme talked about the Kenyan runners training camp they always do their first 15 mile run of the day before breakfast. It isn't recommended for intensive effort such as interval training, but long runs are fine, that has been my experience too. And I didn't hit the wall when I did a marathon last year, maybe running fasted helped with making my body is more efficient at using stored glycogen.

I'm wondering if anyone on here can help?
I'm embarking on a slightly modified version of the blood sugar diet, and wondering whether at 800 cals it's going to be possible to build muscle, or at least not lose any!
I'm planning 5 days a week at 800 or thereabouts, 2 days med low carb at the weekend.
I'm doing 20 mins of high intensity bodyweight exercise 3x per week, 40 mins of swimming 3 or 4 x per week, the odd brisk walk.

Only done 3 days of BSD so far, but my protein intake so far is about 50 grams per day and I'm wondering if that's enough? It's a struggle as I don't eat meat - I do eat fish though.

Any advice welcome!

Sputnik You are unlikely to build muscle on 800 cals x 5 days per week, but you should retain what you have - I asked Mosely on the webchat and he didn't think people lost muscle even on the daily 800 cals.

Food sounds ok:

• Over the week, aim to average 1.0 - 1.2g protein daily for each kg bodyweight. i.e you can boost protein a bit on the 2 higher cal days. Fish is excellent protein. So are eggs. Beans & lentils have decent amounts too. Eat plenty of veg with it.

I suggest changes to your exercise program:
More lifting and change your cardio to v short bursts.

• Do resistance training 3-5 days per week, 30-45 mins per time. Don't work the same muscles on consecutive days.
  Better to do controlled lifting with good form of reasonably heavy barbells or use bodyweight.
  Avoid crossfit or manic pump or even HIIT
  Work the main muscle groups - Bum / Thighs, shoulders / chest -
  e.g. Pressups, deep squats, lunges, deadlift, tricep dips, bench press, bentover row

• For HIIT, just do one 4 minutes Fat Blast (e.g Tabata) on 3-5 days per week.
  Avoid long or frequent cardio sessions. They might actually cause muscle loss on such reduced calories.
  Personally, I'd cut the swimming and just do 15 mins walk some days after lifting, just to make sure you burn the fat mobilised by lifting.
  If you really like to swim, I'd suggest just one session of 40 mins, on one of your higher cal days

Hi, joining in here. Did my first fasts on Tuesday and Thursday, not too difficult as at work so busy. Will be weighing in on Friday mornings. Gone from 72.3 to 71.6kg this week so pleased at this. Aiming to get below 60kg by the Summer. Not a great exerciser, but have a Fitbit and will be doing my 10k steps per day or more if I get the opportunity. Great to read all the success stories and tips here.