IF / ADF / 4:3 / 5:2 / 6:1 / 16:8 ~ Maintaining at a healthy weight ~ Chapter 5

[TalkinPeace]

This thread is for those of us who have been practicing IF (Intermittent Fasting) for quite a while ( it being nearly 2 years since the Michael Mosely TV programme aired ) and are now at, or nearing, their target healthy weight.
It's also for anyone who is doing it for the health benefits alone.

How do we mix fasts and a stable food intake while having little or no weight to lose?
How do we ensure that this WOL keeps us at the healthy weight long term rather than revert to yoyo games?
How do we ensure that we keep ourselves looking great rather than just thin?

More and more of us have been maintaining at our original goal weight for many months, and others are joining all the time.
Obviously, the more the merrier!
It is also worth considering whether a second, leaner target might be achievable.

You'll find the first four maintenance threads and all the main 5:2 threads for posters practising IF to lose weight here Fasting / 5:2 on the diet forum. We're currently on thread no. 46, but there is a new main thread every 2-3 weeks.

There are three other associated threads:
This one, which is an absolute goldmine of Tips and Links on how to practice IF, and the research behind it.

And here is a treasure trove of 5:2 recipes, mostly low calorie for fasting days, but there are also recipes for when you want to treat yourself. And, now we're maintaining, we'll need more of these!

Since I started the last Maintainers thread the importance of exercise has come even more to the fore, as part of our general health and to help weight loss. BigChocFrenzys thread is here

Hi all,
I'm back in the UK with at least half a stone to shift.

DD got her GSEs today (3 x A*, 8 x A, 2 x B - one of which is English Language so will be remarked) so the combination of jetlag and adrenalin is quite surreal.
West coast was amazing. Downtown Seattle is somewhere I have no desire to go back to though. ( no stray dogs or cats, just stray people in NW USA )

ATB your gums toughen up after a month or so - get some of the wax to mould round the clips if they are rubbing.
Laska good to see you popping back in - you are still FAR lighter than you were at the start so that is still a result.
Betsy hugs for your mum

Excellent results for DD TiP! That's wonderful news

I think NSS is an excellent idea, I'm freaking out a bit about this tri and have had abdominal pain the last few days (doctor said it was likely an ovarian cyst but apparently doesn't need checking unless I am being sick or have a fever!) so not doing any exercise and wallowing in too much chocolate as ice cream!

I did however make a very delicious fish pie last night and managed to eat loads, although immediately had to floss and brush.

Thanks for reassurances, I know it'll get better and it's nowhere near as painful as when I was a preteen so that's good. And actually I think I probably do need to throw in a fast day. DH made a coffee, banana and PB smoothie this am but as I have my laksa soup planned for later I reckon I can easily make today a FD so I'm going to.

This is eat here in a new guise

betsy well done on fasting through everything. I'm not sure I'm ready for SFS yet myself but support anyone who is!

tip welcome home, and well done DD.

atb go for it!

So today hasn't gone as planned for me. I'm still on course for a full FD, but can't do everything I planned as my hand and my electric whisk had an altercation earlier. I'm declaring it a victory for my hand as the whisk is screwed, but i'm in a lot of pain and strapped up. More gutting as its my left hand and DH has bought me a lovely eternity ring for our anniversary on Saturday. Looks like it won't be worn for a bit . And this bandage is doing nothing for the lovely nail varnish job I did last night.

Betsy I suggest NOCS (NO Crap September)
< participating is waving your NOCkers (not knockers) >

Well done to your clever DD, Tip

TIP. Congrats on your Dd! Proud moment indeed

Itruely! Nice name. Sorry about your hand. Sounds awful and painful. Hope it feels better soon.

FD here gone well. Just need to stay out of the kitchen for the rest of the evening. Oddly I want wine. Not just a glass but a gallon. It's been that sort of a day.... (Don't even ask)

We go on hols on Tuesday. Need to pack. DCs are excited. I am too bit will be more so once packed.

Poor Itruly I hope your hand soon recovers from its whisk-bashing

I wear 12oz boxing gloves before punching irritating objects or hunks.

Bigchoc. I could do with some of those for punching some irritating objects if my own.

Started packing for holiday with DC jumping around and tearing stuff back out of suitcases they are "helping".

Did anybody else watch Mosely on Horizon, re eating meat ?

I was at the small portion size they recommend.
I eat lots of fish most days, so I usually only have red meat about once per week. However, my portion size size is 200g for steak, 259g for burgers and my monthly bacon sarnies use a 100g packet
Also, like most rodents, I eat a LOT of cheese, easily 200g in a fondant or breaded cheese. I'm considering cutting down my cheese, but not my beef !

Oops, 250g burgers.

Bigchoc. No I missed that.

Your portion sizes sound like mine. What size were they recommending then?? Just wondering as 200g of fish or steak is fine but less would leave me hungry.

I don't really ever eat bacon or sausages. But I eat huge amounts of cheese. Yum yum. And 200g in one sitting is a small cheese snack for me.

That said I don't eat cheese every day.

Is that programme still on iplayer and do I want to watch it??

Nope didn't see it - was it for health reasons? The more and more I read, and I take care to search out all sides of the argument and as objective research as poss (ie not just believing vegan propaganda!) I'm convinced health wise most animal products are not good for us. Dairy is a big culprit so I'm trying to pretty much eliminate it from our family diet - cheese is hard though as the DC LOVE cheese. You can't get all the yummy European cheeses here cheaply so I don't eat them any more anyway. DC now have porridge, smoothies and ice Lollies all made with almond milk which has more good stuff in them and I sneak spinach and chia seeds into EVERYTHING.

I don't really crave any meats anymore anyway, and can't eat half of them with braces as it is. Can't bear to give up fish though so heading towards pescatarianism I suppose. I feel torn though because I do think the DC should ultimately choose themselves what to eat so I keep offering up meat in various forms (and in fairness we all gobble up the very expensive chicken livers from our local more-than-free-range bloody 5 star living chickens periodically) but seeing as I avoid it for health as well as environmental and animal welfare reason, aren't I putting their health in jeopardy if that's what I deem to be an issue?!

Argh - I shouldn't really worry. We eat a pretty much whole food diet, they rarely get anything processed, we make our own ice Lollies and cakes (DS is now so accustomed to my almost no sugar baking he proclaimed a shop bought cake too sweet the other day smug ) so I should prob stop getting my knickers in a twist

Speaking of knickers and totally OT potty training DD. Joy.

Good news - this am I WI and am down to my ideal weight of 130lbs which I've not seen twice before (normally hover 133lbs ish)....for wiggle room would like to be 126lbs but need to slow down the loss to make it sustainable and get back into training

ATB
Having just been on the west coast, in terms of food provenance and welfare and flavour over volume and free range, the USA is about 20 years behind the UK
we eat a lot of meat - but we have a wonderful butcher who puts the farm post code on most of what he sells
I've not bought other than free range eggs for years
humans evolved to be omnivores - but not to eat 'feed lot' USA beef!
try getting lamb as much of that in CA is for the 'ethnic' market and is non intensive production

MrsF I think they were recommending 40-50g per week (!) for red meat and said 80g+ very significantly increased risk of heart disease and some cancers.
Basically, they said give up red meat, just have a few scraps as flavouring. Nope, I can't manage that.

I try to eat mostly grass-fed meat - wagyu beef from Australia, NZ lamb - but occasionally bacon & chorizo creep in and processed meat is supposed to be especially bad.

Tomorrow I've veggy tarte flambé & cheese fondue from the deli and our local bakery produced some lovely lemon tarts, apple tarts, mandarin cheesecake.

So, Sunday will be mainly high-fat dairy, wedges and a sugary pud trolley - not a health food day !

Well done on your SV, ATB

The evidence against red meat and cheese is unfortunately accumulating. Fish is food, skinless poultry is ok.
We know sugar and white carbs are bad
So is any more than light drinking.
Grains are fattening

I'm an omnivore who does IF, not perfect, but that's my WOL.

Fish is good < smacks iPad >

Bigchoc. Thanks. 80g p week??!! Including fish???!!! Wtf.
I don't generally eat red meat more than once a week/every 10 days but I do eat a lot of fish eggs and chicken. And cheese obv.

And an 80g portion wouldn't do. I do often eat 100g/120g of fish as that's how its portions.

And I do intend on continuing eating roast chicken with skin on. Otherwise what's the fecking point? Oh and cheese frenzies

Sorry but it's all bad for you. Life kills. It's just a matter of time.

Seriously is Moseley being paid by a government think tank to help solve world hunger/carbon footprint/dwindling world resources by pushing a health agenda? Beginning to wonder.
Still it's true. There are too many of us and not enough of everything to go around

Whatever next, breathatarianism??

Sorry. Ranty and slightly merry. Had my first glass of wine in weeks. Gone straight to my head.

Agreed TiP, one of the biggest reasons our family started consuming less meat was moving here where welfare standards are not just lower but harder to work out. We never eat lamb, you can only find it shipped from New Zealand.

I used to only buy free range too - but sadly the same is true of free range in the UK as it is here, it doesn't really mean anything unless you visit the farm and check what actually happens. I now buy pasture raised or grass fed which is the higher welfare standard. My mum gets all her meat from the local butchers and farmers too but she doesn't know anything about welfare standards at local abbatoirs - my concerns are around quality of death as well as life.

BUT equally important I think are the impacts on our own health - apparently dairy is the first food recommended to cut out if you are diagnosed with any form of cancer. Thankfully I don't miss it....I miss chorizo though! And I think occasionally having a splash of milk in my tea isn't going to kill me.

Fish though, so so hard to give up because I LOVE it, so try to do my research on sustainability etc but there's no avoiding that we are destroying the oceans by catching and eating fish. Ugh.

Pass the gin. No juniper berries have been harmed in the making of this post

Gould add I doubt if ever give all of it up properly forever. I'm just reducing the stuff I think is particularly bad

I watched the Horizon show in the week and while I wasn't shocked by the outcome I was shocked almost at the start by the low recommended amount, which they then went on to say we should reduce! Even with my now smaller portions I could easily have 100g of meat in a meal regardless of what meat it is. I didn't think I was doing that badly. Maybe I'll just go back to burying my head in the sand...

MrsF Don't panic totally - the restrictions were on red meat, esp processed, and cheese. So, no limit (yet) on fish or white poultry meat.

I wonder how much of the health damage of meat & cheese is due to the processed feed, antibiotics etc given to the animals and their lack of space to roam.
We evolved as omnivore hunter-gatherers, stuffing ourselves whenever we could. Difficult to judge the effect of their diet, due to the high mortality then, even after age 15. However, animals, fruit and veg have been bred to be totally different now to what they were 10,000 years ago.

Also, although Mosely's health parameters and waist worsened on his high-meat diet, was that because he was adding hundreds of calories per day ? He didn't mention reducing say carbs to equalise the extra calories.
So, was he comparing basically 4 weeks bingeing to his previous TDEE regime ?

The experts compared 7th Day Adventists with / without meat, but even they may have been self-selecting groups motivated by different habits and stress levels.
The gold standard on studies is to select very similar test subjects, define the diet for each randomly selected group and see they stick to it. Very difficult to do and Horizon didn't show any such study.

Re cancer & dairy etc:
. There is thought to be a link between high consumption of cows' milk and ovarian cancer incidence.
. Nothing I've read linking cheese, kefir, yoghurt and any cancer
. Women with breast or ovarian cancer are advised to give up all soya products, incl milk and tofu. Tough for vegans.
. Almond milk unsweetened is fine. Also, coconut milk (higher cal)

Thanks Bigchoc. Yes I see about the high meat diet and not reducing carb to compensate. That would just make you fat. Whereas eating high meat low carb is proven at least in the population anecdotally to provide weight loss lower blood pressure etc via the well known low carb Atkins and Dukan diets.

Glad I'm ok with my fish and chicken.

I don't really pork. I grew up in a part of Scandinavia which is well known for its pork products. We literally had pork coming out of our ears while I grew up and I can't stand the stuff now.

Lamb I don't eat much. Another thing which was eaten a lot when I was a child and badly cooked by my parents so not a fan.

Do like beef. Also like and I know this isn't popular here, horse. Quite popular where I'm from. Horse burger is much nicer than a beef one.

I don't ever eat cereal so no milk other than a splash in tea and coffee. I refuse to give that up.
Oddly yogurt gives me spots. Especially Greek yogurt. So I avoid it. Cheese doesn't. Strangely. Love cheese. Could probably live off it.

And fish/ shellfish. Anything from the sea.