IF / ADF / 4:3 / 5:2 / 6:1 / 16:8 ~ Maintaining at a healthy weight ~ Chapter 5

[TalkinPeace]

This thread is for those of us who have been practicing IF (Intermittent Fasting) for quite a while ( it being nearly 2 years since the Michael Mosely TV programme aired ) and are now at, or nearing, their target healthy weight.
It's also for anyone who is doing it for the health benefits alone.

How do we mix fasts and a stable food intake while having little or no weight to lose?
How do we ensure that this WOL keeps us at the healthy weight long term rather than revert to yoyo games?
How do we ensure that we keep ourselves looking great rather than just thin?

More and more of us have been maintaining at our original goal weight for many months, and others are joining all the time.
Obviously, the more the merrier!
It is also worth considering whether a second, leaner target might be achievable.

You'll find the first four maintenance threads and all the main 5:2 threads for posters practising IF to lose weight here Fasting / 5:2 on the diet forum. We're currently on thread no. 46, but there is a new main thread every 2-3 weeks.

There are three other associated threads:
This one, which is an absolute goldmine of Tips and Links on how to practice IF, and the research behind it.

And here is a treasure trove of 5:2 recipes, mostly low calorie for fasting days, but there are also recipes for when you want to treat yourself. And, now we're maintaining, we'll need more of these!

Since I started the last Maintainers thread the importance of exercise has come even more to the fore, as part of our general health and to help weight loss. BigChocFrenzys thread is here

B&W our rabble rousing pensioner

You are a champion, B&W Fight for the weak.
Zora Neale Hurston: “If you are silent about your pain, they’ll kill you and say you enjoyed it.”

Tip Eating healthily does require more knowledge, time, work and often money than eating junk. So, we shouldn't be surprised at choices made by folk who struggle with any of these

(Slinks back in quietly)

Hello all
Good to see you're all here and doing so well!

Those stats on how many will be over weight in the very near future make scary food for thought.

Not much to report other than having been off the FD wagon for quite a while and as a result 4/5lbs have crept on. So back on it and it's an FD tomorrow.

Surprised it wasn't more but it goes to show that you can't turn a blind eye. Or perhaps you can if you don't like chocolate and cheese as much as I do.

Bigchoc. The guinea pigs are still here but no longer guarding a chocolate stash because I ate it. All.

TIP, B&W you're on fine form which good to see

Am mid project on new house. It's a building site. Quite literally uninhabitable with no water heat or leccy. And it's about to get worse once the 7 steel beams arrive and walls need to go down.... I need a holiday but can't have one until I've finished this and we have moved in.

Nice to "see" you all again. (Waves)

Happy 50th birthday TIP!!!

wow!

I'd offer and as well as but it looks as though you may still be recovering from the RL versions

Sorry I've not been on here for a while. Been maintaining around 9.4-9.7, so pretty much comfortable within target weight zone, without doing any conscious 'proper' 500 days.

What I have noticed though, is that 2 years on I'm now much more able to notice when I'm not really hungry, and then just not eat. (I know, not exactly headline news, is it?!)

But that means I might go out for a big work lunch, tuck into 3 courses plus bread and butter (and maybe even wine), and then not eat again until the following day. And weirdly, that seems to be ok, and the scales will be entirely forgiving. Plus I generally have a couple of demi-fast days each week, where I simply don't eat until I get home, and might not have very much even then.

Anyway, thank you all: I'm still so grateful to have found a sustainable way to feel good about myself and still enjoy food :)

(Although so far today I've eaten 3 oatcakes with large amounts of cambozola, a big chunk of parmesan and 2 Reeces Pieces. So clearly not quite out of the woods yet....)

Hi there MrsFlorrick
I guessed you were playing with houses as you appear on the property board occasionally : I take it you are not living in teh building site
pop some pics on FB

Fillybuster
funny isn't it : after a couple of years of retraining my body now seems to self regulate to keep me within a pound or two of happy weight with what feels like minimal effort
I rarely do 500 cal fasts now
just eat when I'm hungry which is only once or twice a day

Filly buster. A cheese fest. My favourite! . Have you tried Vacherin? Yummy. Or petit Berthaud? Mmmmm cheese.

Must stop thinking about it or my FD tomorrow will be very long whilst thinking about cheese!!!

TIP. No not living on building site. That would be scary madness given the scale of it.
To be fair it's right in the middle of the project at that stage where it's looking its worst and messiest with an awful lot to do still. It's at this point you mustn't lose focus and keep planning the final parts and finishes so that you don't get bogged down in stuff you can't do anything about such as RMD propping systems of load bearing walls etc.

< waves to MrsF, Filly > Great to hear you are both still maintaining so well.

I think those who gained control of NFD intake while losing weight are normally able to continue this for a fairly easy maintenance, because FDs and sensible NFDs combined have reset their metabolism and hunger signals.

Those who regain or struggle to maintain seem to be those who tended to binge / starve in the weight loss phase, rather than feast / fast, IYSWIM.

MrsF You sound in your element, creating order & beauty out of chaos & rubble.

Bigchoc (runs to hug Bigchoc).

At the moment there is only rubble and heaps of chaos. Oh dear.

Ran into a few issues as you always do and am trying to solve them.

Did anyone else see the article in the Daily Fail on weight and gut bacteria?? Very interesting about how lack of food diversity decreases good bacteria and increases bad thus making us fatter.

I guess the answer is in part to eat more veg in place of traditional carb fillers with meals. That way you'd increase your food diversity.

I particularly liked that the article said stinky cheese was good for you . Any excuse.

I do worry about getting enough food diversity into the DC. Small children like quite boring food.
DD has become obsessed with garlic. In particular garlic butter. So she will eat any veg and tons of it as long as it is doused heavily in garlic butter.
She actually left her Yorkshire pudding at our last roast in favour of broccoli and beans swimming in garlic butter.

Hasn't rubbed off on DS who would prefer to eat meat and nothing else. Caveman style. I do worry that he doesn't like a big variety but then he isn't yet 4 years old so perhaps it's too much to expect. Can't wait for him to start loving garlic butter as well.

MrsF the most interesting thing in the daily fail article (maybe for BigChoc to) was that exercise stimulates the growth of gut bacteria which are apparently essential for our wellbeing. As does eating a varied diet.
Good luck with your rubble. I'm sure it will end up beautiful! But it must be a daunting task.
Filly congrats on your maintaining!
I'm not doing 500 day fasts, I do 16:8 a few days a week and reduce intake on certain days. I run around 50km a week and if I want to lose a couple of kgs I reduce intake a few days a week (as BigChoc suggested on her exercise thread.).
The best thing I learnt from 5:2 is that I now know what feeling hungry feels like and I eat when I'm hungry, not just for the sake of eating.

Anglaise.

Yes to not eating for the sake of it!!
It's easy to slip into that bad habit and 5:2 does help you see that.

I should get more exercise and grow some good germs .

Hi MrsF and Filly!

I'm in awe of your capabilities, MrsF! It took me over two years to gather the necessary strength of will to paint about 2 metres of skirting board in the bathroom. Still haven't finished it off with some sealant - although I bought the tube about 3 weeks ago!

Good to see that we all seem to have our various techniques for both over-eating and watching our waistlines!

B&W (squeezes B&W in big hug).

Don't be in awe. It's always bad to take houses apart and put them back together.
The contractor I was going to use for the build and installation part is someone I've used twice before however in the interim he got a new business partner. Sadly he is an utter cretin who clearly tries to bleed people dry and makes up items to do.
Eg he kept on and on that I needed a new roof well no I didn't need £70ks worth of new roof.
This cowboy merchant didn't know I was a building surveyor by trade and just assumed I was a housewife from Kent he would rip off.
I've got a roofer I know who is making minor repairs for a total of £10k.

So within 5 weeks I had to sack them and look for another outfit to do the groundworks and steel work installation. Very annoying.

It's scary how fast people change and how you need to have eyes in the back of your head.

It's also sad that someone I've had a longstanding relationship with is now on the scrap heap because he got swept up in the big money fantasy of a cowboy. I've asked around and apparently they've been sacked off 8 jobs in the last year alone

So nothing is ever smooth. It's almost worse when you're in the industry and you know how it's all going to go. Ignorance can certainly be bliss!!!

Anyway that's life. And they got no further than stripping out and minor demolished than they were caught out.

In reference to the thread on here today about the weeing chimney sweep: on the last day one of their labourers weed all over an antique victorian safe and locked a turd (dog I think) inside. What a lovely parting gift. animals.
DH wanted to keep that safe. He was so angry he went all Irvine Welsh and I couldn't understand his normal placid Glaswegian accent

Big hugs back to MrsF
Bloody hell re the builders You'd be outraged at even your little ones for doing that !

Is it worth going through small claims court, maybe if you know / want a journalist to warn of this firm ? No, probably not worth the hassle, but just warn everyone you know. Infuriating, but they do it because they get away with it.
Extraordinary that a firm can change so much ethically, although I have known firms / uni depts in my field rapidly change in capability if one person joins / leaves.
Also, alarming that they can be so unethical as to recommend unnecessary remedial work. Clearly, for large sums, one needs a building surveyor like you are, to check first.

Wrt DCs and nutrition, studies suggest exercise is the most important thing for health, plus avoiding junk food. So, you are doing brilliantly, plus of course you are giving them a lovely happy home and superb education. Lucky DCs !

For adults at least, studies consistently show that regular exercise and low % body fat are dominant. Counter-intuitively, 8 portions of veg, compared to 1-2 daily has zero effect on cancer levels and moderate effect on cardiovascular disease. Exercise and % body fat are dominant there.

It seems likely that junk food is an antinutrient, hence killing bacteria and helping cause obesity. The Fail is too damaging to my blood pressure atm, but I had read the Conversation Article cowritten with Tom Spector and I've downloaded a Kindle sample of his book to assess.

Exercise, Waist, Weight, Food Quality, Health

Exercise & waist (visceral fat indicator) are twice as important for health as BMI

The very large longterm European cancer & nutrition EPIC Study (340,000 people over 12 years) suggests that a lack of exercise is responsible for twice as many deaths as obesity.

They examined separately baseline figures for BMI band, waist circumference, smoking, levels of alcohol consumption, education, age, sex but didn't follow how these changed.
Those initially having a serious illness, dying within 3 years, weighing above 250 kg were excluded.

Findings:
. None of the dietary type variables - fibre, fruit & veg, dairy, fish, even red meat - led to much difference.
So it is eating too much that is harmful, rather than say eating little fruit & veg. Quantity, not Quality.
. At any weight, light exercise - say a 20 mins daily walk - could cut the risk of early death by 20-30%
. For normal and overweight people (< 30 BMI) being in the most active group reduced risk by 41% compared to being sedentary. However, for those obese (BMI > 30 ), doing more than light exercise brought no significant benefit.
. High waist had a similar risk to being sedentary, i.e. up to 41%.
Illustration
9.2 million total deaths occurred in Europe in 2008, of which they estimate 676,000 deaths may be attributable to physical inactivity compared with 337,000 deaths attributable to obesity (BMI> 30).

Did y'all see this story today ?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32639794
I did a grip test as part of a science public event : my grip was that of a 30 year old man - probably because of the swimming and yoga

Yup, I read a few studies on that, which is why the exercise thread includes a short "Grip Strength" section. Get gripping, folks !
Also amazing that Starting exercise at 68 increases life expectancy by 5 yrs same as giving up smoking
Depressing that this article rates UK exercise levels as among the lowest in the EU, for all adult.

You have a formidable grip, tip

Bigchoc. Interesting about older people taking up exercise and the benefits! Clearly it's never too late as they say

It's been a long week and it's about to get longer as DH is off to Vegas for work for 7 days

I must try to avoid succumbing to chocolate cravings due to tiredness while he is away. Could be difficult.....

Off to pick up two small children.

Am shocked that France is below UK in terms of 'moderate exerciese' given that the obesity levels are less here than in the UK.
I can only assume that moderate exercise inlcudes walking the dog which Brits do a lot and French people rarely.
I know that most French people still take 2 hours lunch, not to eat but to practice sport then eat quickly. They then finish work around 6.30 - 7pm.

anglaise
Interestingly when we have stayed in municipal campsites in france, the sedentary, high calorie, obesity level is significant

TBH
I live in a really poor area of south UK : it colours my view of "national surveys"

TIP There are lots of obese French people where I live (in a village in the country), particularly the women. In Rennes it is completely different.

oooh, how lovely to see you all again

I've been off MN for a while (RL getting in the way of MN time, boo...) and had forgotten how nice it is down in this little corner

Likely to be on a slightly extended gardening leave type thingummy quite soon so I may be lurking around a little more frequently.

So pleased to hear that you're all doing so well...that makes me feel really happy.

MrsF we have a vacherin in the fridge right now. I'm going to try to ignore it in favour of having just asparagus, kale and a great big glass of white wine for dinner.

Mmm. Just starting to think about the rather massive renovation/rebuild project we are going to have to undertake on our lovely home at some point in the next 12 months or so.

It hasn't been updated since 1972.

There are stairs that need moving. Attics that need extending. Dormers to be added. Bathrooms to be turned into bedrooms. Bedrooms into bathrooms. 1970's Poggenpohl kitchens removed and 2016 Magnet kitchens installed. Rear back extensions and garden re-landscaping.

Not to mention complete replumbing and rewiring. Natch.

MrsF I think we may be in need of you....

Fillybuster. Sounds like a project. Untouched by human hand for decades.....

Don't hide from the budget! Get your ducks in a row immediately. And bad assumptions are the parents of all screw ups!

Electrics will cost more than you ever think! For every double socket and light switch and pendant/down lighter.
Allow £75 per one. And this doesn't include fancy Dan face plates just plastic ones. A large house will easily have between 250 and 300 points (points being electrical outlet ie socket switch or light). Oh and dimmer switches for LED (even a basic one) will set you back about £50 (trailing edge dimmer not leading edge as that will cause problems-ask if you want more info).

Don't skimp on plumbing or "add on" to old plumbing. Therein lies the way to extra cost, low pressure/flow (crap showers) and costly leaks. Rip the whole lot out and start again. Anything older than 15 years, remove. Inc central heating copper pipe work. The solder joints corrode slowly over time. Copper doesn't but the combination of chlorine in water and trace metals will corrode solder joints. No point in keeping it.
Make sure you sell all the copper pipe work as its valuable. Or trade with your plumber (ie work for free against him having the copper to sell).

If you want to ask questions please do. Always happy to help out