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Fasting / 5:2 diet

5:2 Exercise & Fitness: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 31/12/2013 01:51

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Fasted training, i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF, but it is advisable to first become used to fasting

Exercise alone does not produce significant weight loss for most people. However it can improve body shape and can help overcome weight plateaux.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart diesease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

  • Try to train regularly, building up to 3-6 days per week.
  • Develop a training routine you enjoy and want to continue long term.
  • Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve" BendAge


WARNING:
If you are very obese or have health issues, check with your GP that you are able to start exercising and also if there are types of exercise you should avoid.
=====================================

Fat and Metabolism

Body fat is highly active tissue which secretes hormones (e.g. leptin, adiponectin) and microphages (which cause inflammation) directly into the bloodstream. These substances can significantly affect metabolism & weight and increase the risk of diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, some cancers.
E.g ref and ref

Visceral fat is more dangerous than subcutaneous - a study found that liposuction removing up to 20lb of the latter did not improve health indicators. Visceral fat needs to be reduced by exercise and a calorie deficit, preferably both together.

Hormesis

"What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson and Hormesis can be applied to exercise, analagous to how 5:2 /IF uses it for nutrition.
Alternating between “extremes” of feast and fast (like 5:2) or intense training and rest, makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is not necessary and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Only high intensity exercise recruits the fast-twitch muscle fibers that have the most glycogen (stored glucose). Steady State Cardio does not empty the glucose stores in those particular muscles. Hence, the circulating glucose has nowhere to be stored — except as bodyfat.

Moreover, the muscle cells will lose their sensitivity to insulin and become inflamed by the high levels of insulin, which the body has produced to deal with the high levels of circulating glucose. The body mortars this inflammation with LDL cholesterol.

Hence, those exercising only at low-medium intensity are at greater risk of cardiovascular problems than high intensity exercisers SteadyState (pp. 31-34).
Obviously, non-exercisers have the highest risk of all.

RECOMMENDED TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do a variety of training: HIIT cardio, resistance and flexibility.

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are inadequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.
However, 10 mins walk on a treadmill or outside is beneficial after training, especially after heavy lifting.
Scientists have proved that cardio and resistance training can be done in the same session, without detriment to either, e.g. TrainBoth

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:
  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !

However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

Flexibility

  • Stretching for 5 mins before and after each training session is recommended
  • Yoga and Pilates classes can be added if additional flexibility training is desired. Some such classes also provide additional strength / toning.


HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods. Time intervals may be equal or different and their length and the number of sets depends on fitness level.

Start with one session per week and build up to a maximum of 3 (no more).

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis). However, beginners should build up gradually, starting say with just 1 or 2 intervals.

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs
or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer classes, e.g.
spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)
which each use a form of interval training.
These classes require less planning and are often more enjoyable (music, socialising, equipment) than training on your own.

A typical HIIT session could consist of:
  • 4 mins warmup
  • 8 sets of intervals
  • 4 mins cooldown

and last 12-60 mins in total.

Recovery time is usually half the high intensity time.
Examples of typical interval sets are:
  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery OR
  • 40 sec high + 20 sec low OR
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low


Detailed HIIT example plans: (scroll down to Workouts section and ignore whether entitled "cutting" or "bulking") BodyBuild

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

This helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.

It is easier in a gym, especially re equipment. You can lift in the weights area on your own OR in a pump class.
Whether @ gym or home, before you start lifting, have a few lessons with a trainer to learn the correct form and avoid injury.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

WARNING
The "Heavy" lifting described here should not exceed bodyweight unless you are really fit and expert.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Main Lifting / Resistance Exercises

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests
E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups. Alternatively, use bodyweight.
squats
bent-over rows (press button "female")
Behind neckPress (press button "female")
dead lift
The abs and smaller muscle groups will automatically be trained by these exercises, but you can add optionally 20 mins weekly abs exercises:

Basic Abs
  • Situps: build up to 3 sets of 20 reps. Try to put your arms in front of you, instead of behind your head
  • Angled situps: with one ankle resting on the opposite knee. 2 sets of 15 each side
  • Plank: 3 sets, each 45 secs
  • Leg extensions: legs bent 90 degrees, so your lower legs are parallel to the floor. Stretch each leg in turn, parallel to the floor. 3 sets of 10.


Lifting To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets
e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

Lifting To Build More Muscle
With a lower weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

Additionally, or if you don't have heavy barbells, use your bodyweight.
Example to build up to:
  • 3 sets of 30 press ups, proper ones, see detail below +.
  • 40 deep squats, with thighs parallel to floor, i.e. ATG (Arse to Grass) see ++.
  • 3 set of 8 reps inverted pullup /row Inverted OR assisted chin-ups on a gym machine OR full chin-ups if you can manage them (Amazon have pullup bars which fit over doors from about £15)


+Press ups
  • It is best to keep attempting one proper pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms.


++Squats
  • Are the best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.

-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes.
-For bodyweight squats, bring your arms forward
-Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.


CAUTION With Leangains-Type Protocols

5:2 is an easier WOL than other forms of IF, with most days being NFDs during which the body can recuperate.

Some women have had injuries or health problems with very tough LeanGains-type protocols, which combine ADF or daily 16:8 with fasted lifting of multiples of body weight.

Some women have achieved excellent results on LeanGains-type; others had problems after a few months, or even from the start. Particularly at risk are women with very low (11-18%) body fat, possibly already with irregular menstruation, or with EDs.

Post-menopausal women seem to do well, as do men, presumably due to differences in hormones, body fat %, metabolism.

RECOMMENDATION: Don't lift more than your bodyweight and mostly lift well below it.

Running versus Walking

Walking is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref . Typical values:

- For running (5 mph and higher): Total calories burned per mile = .75 x body weight (in pounds); net calories (see ++) burned per mile = .63 x weight.
  • For walking (3 to 4 mph): Total calories burned per mile = .53 x body weight; net calories burned per mile = .30 x weight.


++ Note: net calories = total calories - cals the body would have burned at rest (calculated from BMR)

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

We start losing bone density from about age 35. Women can lose a great deal before, during and after menopause.

Other risk factors: Smoking, heavy drinking, inactive lifestyle, very slim build, family history of osteoporosis, longterm steroid use.

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight bearing exercises that load the bone along its length

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better than lunges: The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density as it does not really load bones along their length. A study found that cyclists who did no other exercise had low bone density because of the combo of this with their training Osteo

KETTLEBELLS

Useful exercise descriptions and videos: Kettle
Recommended for beginners (and shown in the link):
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

How to Choose a Gym (if you want to)

  • gym offpeak can be as cheap as £30 p.m. as you don't need expensive pools, sauna, juice bars, massage etc.
  • within journey time 20 mins
  • plenty of classes at times to suit you
  • creche if needed
  • don't bother with expense of a personal trainer.


Start with these classes if available:
  • weekly spin, because you can set your own resistance and speed 45-60 mins
  • any additional interval training class, see earlier for list.
  • weekly pump 60 mins
  • weekly abs class 15-30 mins


======================================

CALCULATORS:
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages:
HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

More links:
52FastDietForum-Fasting & Exercise 52exercise
GettingStronger.Org-Hormesis Hormesis
GettingStronger.Org-Fitness Fitness
LeanGains Protocols : Leangains
MarksDailyApple-Home Workouts Without Equipment WorkAtHome
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OP posts:
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ErrolTheDragon · 03/01/2014 15:14

Tomorrow - well, I'm 53 and I started doing the 30 day shred last year - have done it through a couple of times and will be doing it again starting next week. So if you want something with a bit of everything that you can do at home with minimal equipment, that's one possibility.

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tomorrowweeat · 03/01/2014 15:18

Aghhhhhh! Just did the fitness age test. 75+ Any advice offered would be very much appreciated.

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TalkinPeace · 03/01/2014 15:42

tomorrowweeat
acquire a wii and wii fit - should be around £70 all up from a pawnbroker
do as much of the wii fit, wii sports , yoga, balance as you can
then yes, the shred works for lots of people
and look up "flow yoga" on youtube and copy some beginner ones
and walking - as much and as fast as you can ....

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ErrolTheDragon · 03/01/2014 15:48

tomorrow - when I'm a little bit older I want to join one of those walking groups that block up stiles for 10 mins all getting over Grin

Is there a pool anywhere near you - swimming and various aquarobics things are good if your joints are getting iffy.

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BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 03/01/2014 16:20

Welcome, Tomorrow. Exercise would help improve your health and body shape.

I'd recommend you start with a brisk daily walk. You only need some comfy shoes, say lace-up trainers.
As you get fitter, you can increase speed / time, ideally even add short intervals of jogging, starting with 20 seconds.

Try doing a few bodyweight squats, nothing to strain your knees, so don't go down very far.

Some ladies starting off found that a hoop was fun.

Also, buy a couple of light dumbells (about 2-3 kg), something you can lift say 4 times (you will soon get much stronger) then do exercises like shoulder press, front lift, side lift, bent over row.
Read the OP and I can post some links later for beginners if you aren't sure how to do these.

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peplum41 · 03/01/2014 16:44

New years exercise routine brought to a hault by unscheduled bout of cystitis.

Also failed at attempt to do proper fit person press ups.


Ow ow ow

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BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 03/01/2014 17:35

Peplum We all have setbacks, don't worry.
Keep your abs tight when doing press-ups and they will happen.
You might need to work on strengthening your abs and shoulders.
Remember, the girly ones do little for you; the grownup ones are harder because they actually make you work.
You can do this !

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ErrolTheDragon · 03/01/2014 17:46

Some of us are quite pleased when we get as far as doing the girly ones, you know! Though one of my aims for this year is to do them properly.

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TheLeastAccomplishedBennetGirl · 03/01/2014 17:48

surely the girly ones are better than none?

they are good if you have knackered ankles

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TheLeastAccomplishedBennetGirl · 03/01/2014 17:50

actually, DH does ones where his knees are higher than his hips, resting on the sofa a bench, what do you think of those BigChoc?

i'm loathe to try those in case my arms buckle and i smash my nose on the floor Blush

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MrsFlorrick · 03/01/2014 18:00

FD here and did my Ripped in 30 Level 4 workout.

You'd love it Bigchoc. Grin Lots of HIIT, own body weight strength and plyometrics.

Back later. DC are flooding downstairs looAngry

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TalkinPeace · 03/01/2014 18:10

Press ups I find very hard .... this sort of thing is more my style!
www.yogajournal.com/practice/2854

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BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 03/01/2014 18:13

FD Eating, Shakes & Training

Everybody

  • For the average exerciser, protein shakes are not normally necessary. Ordinary FD food is sufficient. Gyms earn money from selling shakes.

BUT nobody should eat any junk on an FD training day.
Intensive exercisers (full HIIT, heavy lifters) see below.
  • Eat whatever works for you, within the 500 cal limit (600 for blokes).
  • Varady's book and lifting sites recommend AGAINST sub-500 cals, in case you lose valuable muscle mass.

I now decided it is safest to always have my full 500.
  • Do include sufficient protein. If you do decide on a sub-500 cal, then supplement with zero-cal BCAA (Branch Chain Amino Acids) e.g. Xtend is top quality.
  • Many folk save some or most calories to eat after training.
  • You can train completely fasted and eat afterwards, but depends on time of day and the individual.

If you do so, take BCAA and a double espresso or other high-caffeine drink about 15 mins before and a shake or more BCAA immediately afterwards.
This is one of the exceptions when a normal exerciser needs a shake.
  • Do not eat a proper meal (excludes protein shake) within 2 hrs before energetic training or you may feel crap & lethargic.

I either train completely fasted or leave at least 4 hrs before training, so my tum feels empty.
A walk is fine after any meal, as it aids digestion and is not very energetic.
  • LOFs (Liquid Only Fasts) can be EITHER near-zero cal with tea, coffee, veg juice only OR up to 500 cals as protein shakes.

Liquids aren't as filling for the same number of cals as solids, but LOFs work fine for some. Try an LOF if you want, but no advantage over a normal FD, except time saved cooking.
A shake LOF allows 2-3 shakes for a woman, 3-4 for a man if you take no other cals. Examples : RTD shakes like Oh Yeah or Atkins mocha flavour, or make from powders (check calorie count !!) with good quality 80%+ whey / casein protein, e.g. Weider (80 plus, CRFM or BodyShaper) or any SciTec Nutrition shake

For intense trainers only
  • Save some cals for a protein shake (or 25g protein in any other form) immediately after training, before shower etc. Or at least take BCAA.

You need protein ideally within 15 mins to replenish muscles, so this is recommended even if you have a meal later.
Shakes supply protein more quickly than solid food, which must be digested more.
  • If you feel the need when you get home, have a meal, 2nd shake or kefir.
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Lazysuzanne · 03/01/2014 18:14

press up handles are very useful for press ups

they reduce pressure on your wrists and allow a fuller range of motion.
Having your palms facing can also reduce stress to the joints.

Press ups with a closer grip will work the triceps more (and is safer to the shoulder joints)
You can work at an incline or a decline to change the emphasis and the resistance.

are easier than decline

thats just a start, there really are masses of variations on the basic press up Wink
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TalkinPeace · 03/01/2014 18:21

Lazysuzanne
I can do them - they are a regular part of my yoga practices several times a week .... I just dislike them. Partly because I have had ganglions in both wrists. In BodyBalance we regularly had bird pose .... again I can stay there strength wise for ages but my wrists give out as they do not bend all the way back.

Bigchoc
OK you've inspired me, I need to mess about with free weights a bit more.
BTW did you see this trick ... bodygeeks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/barbell-squat-on-swiss-ball-213x200.jpg
I can kneel up and do free weights, or stand, but that one is beyond me!

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BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 03/01/2014 18:34

press-ups

Obviously even a girly press-up is better than nothing. If you have a genuine disability, such as cardiovascular problems, nadgered joints or back

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Lazysuzanne · 03/01/2014 18:44

yep I am familiar with Chaturanga Dandasana Tip Wink
perhaps press up handles would help with your wrists?
I suppose they could also be used with the whole upward dog, downward dog combo? (not that I've tried)

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TalkinPeace · 03/01/2014 18:49

when my wrists were v bad I actually did pressups on my knuckles - with my fingers flat along the floor pointing to my feet
normally I just cheat a bit with spidering my fingers a tad !

girlie ones - one of my pump teachers lets people do girlie box ones so long as their noses touch the floor two planks (gym floor) in front of their fingertips - loads the shoulders nicely

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BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 03/01/2014 18:49

I do some press-ups with raised feet, but they are tough, more for the gym bunny who can do a few sets of the ordinary ones.

One of my 2014 aims is to work up to at least partial handstand press-ups. I'll start with feet partially up on the wall (gym wall, not on my paintwork!).

In CrossFit, we once had semi- one-armed pressups: with the other arm on a medicine ball and moving the ball from one arm to the other. iw as one of the few in that very fit group who managed them, but very difficult.
So, I want to work on full one-armed.

I kneel upright on a Swiss ball and stay balanced with my arms stretched. However, I don't attempt standing or barbells, due to risk of injury if I fall - I don't bounce at my age and avoid balancing that risks bad landings.

Also, I did occasional bodyweight squats on the BOSU, but using both legs only, again to avoid risk.
However, both my gyms, like many others, years ago chucked out their BOSU due to too many injuries.

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BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 03/01/2014 18:59

I never knew girly press-ups existed when I started lifting, so I just naturally persisted until I could do a grownup one.
Smile
After the first: sets of 2,5,10, 20 follow so quickly, it's so satisfying !

Diamond press-ups (hands close in diamond shape) and angled (one hand at the front, one rear) are useful to work muscles at different angles / different muscles.

Tricep presses are good, but tougher because triceps are smaller muscles.
Work up to these by doing sets of tricep dips on a step.

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BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 03/01/2014 19:28

Tip Try press-ups with your hands on the front of a step, so you can grasp it. This also gives you a better angle, slightly higher up, to protect your wrists.

My warm-up sometimes includes press-ups and tricep presses like this, or on a bar a few inches above the floor. Definitely easier on my wrists.

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tomorrowweeat · 03/01/2014 20:30

Thank you so much for the exercise advice. I do walk but obviously need to do more. Like the sound of the wiiFit, might treat myself. Once again many thanks those that gave me ideas.
Good luck to all exercisers :)

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ErrolTheDragon · 03/01/2014 21:21

Hm.... will have to try doing press-ups in odd places so I can try using a step. Or maybe before that the sofa base ... a bit higher and in the room where I exercise. Its failing to find ways to do intermediate inclines between wall press up beyond a certain point and floor which have brought me to my knees Grin

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TheLeastAccomplishedBennetGirl · 03/01/2014 21:53

All press ups I do could be called girly, tbh

On account of me being one Wink

even though if you called me a girl to my face I'd start a lecture about being an adult and therefore a woman

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EarSlaps · 03/01/2014 22:21

I can only really do wide arm push-ups- my triceps are too crap for narrow arm ones and my arms don't seem to bend the right way. I do narrow grip ones on the kitchen counter though when I'm waiting for the kettle to boil or for something to cook in the microwave. I too struggle with the wrists for push-ups. DH suggested using dumbbells instead of buying push-up bars, one less bit of kit around the house. Our new toy boxes are great for tricep dips too Grin.

I had a cold yesterday and thought it was going to turn nasty but I was feeling much better so I did a L2 Ripped in 30. Plus a few bicep curls, lateral raises and shoulder raises after with my new dumbbells.

MrsF- jealous of your new guinea pigs! I would love some but no room indoors and too many foxes outdoors really.

BigChoc- I can't imagine ever being as fit and strong as you. I just don't have the time to devote to exercise at the moment. As the boys get older it might be easier. Ds1 is a skinny little thing and I think he'd be quite suited to cross country, I might take him running soon. He takes after me a bit more, built for stamina rather than power or speed. Ds2 is more like DH- built for power, a lot more muscular (and a big tummy Grin).

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