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Fasting / 5:2 diet

5:2 Exercise & Fitness: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 31/12/2013 01:51

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Fasted training, i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF, but it is advisable to first become used to fasting

Exercise alone does not produce significant weight loss for most people. However it can improve body shape and can help overcome weight plateaux.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart diesease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

  • Try to train regularly, building up to 3-6 days per week.
  • Develop a training routine you enjoy and want to continue long term.
  • Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve" BendAge


WARNING:
If you are very obese or have health issues, check with your GP that you are able to start exercising and also if there are types of exercise you should avoid.
=====================================

Fat and Metabolism

Body fat is highly active tissue which secretes hormones (e.g. leptin, adiponectin) and microphages (which cause inflammation) directly into the bloodstream. These substances can significantly affect metabolism & weight and increase the risk of diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, some cancers.
E.g ref and ref

Visceral fat is more dangerous than subcutaneous - a study found that liposuction removing up to 20lb of the latter did not improve health indicators. Visceral fat needs to be reduced by exercise and a calorie deficit, preferably both together.

Hormesis

"What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson and Hormesis can be applied to exercise, analagous to how 5:2 /IF uses it for nutrition.
Alternating between “extremes” of feast and fast (like 5:2) or intense training and rest, makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is not necessary and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Only high intensity exercise recruits the fast-twitch muscle fibers that have the most glycogen (stored glucose). Steady State Cardio does not empty the glucose stores in those particular muscles. Hence, the circulating glucose has nowhere to be stored — except as bodyfat.

Moreover, the muscle cells will lose their sensitivity to insulin and become inflamed by the high levels of insulin, which the body has produced to deal with the high levels of circulating glucose. The body mortars this inflammation with LDL cholesterol.

Hence, those exercising only at low-medium intensity are at greater risk of cardiovascular problems than high intensity exercisers SteadyState (pp. 31-34).
Obviously, non-exercisers have the highest risk of all.

RECOMMENDED TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do a variety of training: HIIT cardio, resistance and flexibility.

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are inadequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.
However, 10 mins walk on a treadmill or outside is beneficial after training, especially after heavy lifting.
Scientists have proved that cardio and resistance training can be done in the same session, without detriment to either, e.g. TrainBoth

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:
  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !

However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

Flexibility

  • Stretching for 5 mins before and after each training session is recommended
  • Yoga and Pilates classes can be added if additional flexibility training is desired. Some such classes also provide additional strength / toning.


HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods. Time intervals may be equal or different and their length and the number of sets depends on fitness level.

Start with one session per week and build up to a maximum of 3 (no more).

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis). However, beginners should build up gradually, starting say with just 1 or 2 intervals.

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs
or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer classes, e.g.
spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)
which each use a form of interval training.
These classes require less planning and are often more enjoyable (music, socialising, equipment) than training on your own.

A typical HIIT session could consist of:
  • 4 mins warmup
  • 8 sets of intervals
  • 4 mins cooldown

and last 12-60 mins in total.

Recovery time is usually half the high intensity time.
Examples of typical interval sets are:
  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery OR
  • 40 sec high + 20 sec low OR
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low


Detailed HIIT example plans: (scroll down to Workouts section and ignore whether entitled "cutting" or "bulking") BodyBuild

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

This helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.

It is easier in a gym, especially re equipment. You can lift in the weights area on your own OR in a pump class.
Whether @ gym or home, before you start lifting, have a few lessons with a trainer to learn the correct form and avoid injury.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

WARNING
The "Heavy" lifting described here should not exceed bodyweight unless you are really fit and expert.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Main Lifting / Resistance Exercises

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests
E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups. Alternatively, use bodyweight.
squats
bent-over rows (press button "female")
Behind neckPress (press button "female")
dead lift
The abs and smaller muscle groups will automatically be trained by these exercises, but you can add optionally 20 mins weekly abs exercises:

Basic Abs
  • Situps: build up to 3 sets of 20 reps. Try to put your arms in front of you, instead of behind your head
  • Angled situps: with one ankle resting on the opposite knee. 2 sets of 15 each side
  • Plank: 3 sets, each 45 secs
  • Leg extensions: legs bent 90 degrees, so your lower legs are parallel to the floor. Stretch each leg in turn, parallel to the floor. 3 sets of 10.


Lifting To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets
e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

Lifting To Build More Muscle
With a lower weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

Additionally, or if you don't have heavy barbells, use your bodyweight.
Example to build up to:
  • 3 sets of 30 press ups, proper ones, see detail below +.
  • 40 deep squats, with thighs parallel to floor, i.e. ATG (Arse to Grass) see ++.
  • 3 set of 8 reps inverted pullup /row Inverted OR assisted chin-ups on a gym machine OR full chin-ups if you can manage them (Amazon have pullup bars which fit over doors from about £15)


+Press ups
  • It is best to keep attempting one proper pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms.


++Squats
  • Are the best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.

-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes.
-For bodyweight squats, bring your arms forward
-Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.


CAUTION With Leangains-Type Protocols

5:2 is an easier WOL than other forms of IF, with most days being NFDs during which the body can recuperate.

Some women have had injuries or health problems with very tough LeanGains-type protocols, which combine ADF or daily 16:8 with fasted lifting of multiples of body weight.

Some women have achieved excellent results on LeanGains-type; others had problems after a few months, or even from the start. Particularly at risk are women with very low (11-18%) body fat, possibly already with irregular menstruation, or with EDs.

Post-menopausal women seem to do well, as do men, presumably due to differences in hormones, body fat %, metabolism.

RECOMMENDATION: Don't lift more than your bodyweight and mostly lift well below it.

Running versus Walking

Walking is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref . Typical values:

- For running (5 mph and higher): Total calories burned per mile = .75 x body weight (in pounds); net calories (see ++) burned per mile = .63 x weight.
  • For walking (3 to 4 mph): Total calories burned per mile = .53 x body weight; net calories burned per mile = .30 x weight.


++ Note: net calories = total calories - cals the body would have burned at rest (calculated from BMR)

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

We start losing bone density from about age 35. Women can lose a great deal before, during and after menopause.

Other risk factors: Smoking, heavy drinking, inactive lifestyle, very slim build, family history of osteoporosis, longterm steroid use.

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight bearing exercises that load the bone along its length

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better than lunges: The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density as it does not really load bones along their length. A study found that cyclists who did no other exercise had low bone density because of the combo of this with their training Osteo

KETTLEBELLS

Useful exercise descriptions and videos: Kettle
Recommended for beginners (and shown in the link):
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

How to Choose a Gym (if you want to)

  • gym offpeak can be as cheap as £30 p.m. as you don't need expensive pools, sauna, juice bars, massage etc.
  • within journey time 20 mins
  • plenty of classes at times to suit you
  • creche if needed
  • don't bother with expense of a personal trainer.


Start with these classes if available:
  • weekly spin, because you can set your own resistance and speed 45-60 mins
  • any additional interval training class, see earlier for list.
  • weekly pump 60 mins
  • weekly abs class 15-30 mins


======================================

CALCULATORS:
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages:
HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

More links:
52FastDietForum-Fasting & Exercise 52exercise
GettingStronger.Org-Hormesis Hormesis
GettingStronger.Org-Fitness Fitness
LeanGains Protocols : Leangains
MarksDailyApple-Home Workouts Without Equipment WorkAtHome
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OP posts:
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positively9something · 05/01/2014 11:55

I have just used the bodyfat calculator and it is 29.2% Hmm need to make it much Lower quickly

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BigChocFrenzy · 05/01/2014 13:16

B&W

When we refer to girlie weights, we're just egging each other on, like blokes yelling wimps. Dunno what the female equivalent of macho is called.
So, it's just women stuff - ignore it like the meno screeds.

One obviously needs a much lighter Kettlebell than a barbell / dumbbell, because of the swing action - you try swinging a barbell in a gym and you'll be asked to leave !
3kg is fine for a respectably retired gentleman swinging his bell.
Smile
We started Kettling recently in CrossFit and I really enjoy it, very different to anything I've done before.
For the 2-arm swings I do 12-14 kg; for the lift to the chin, I do 20kg, but these are only one-minute sets as part of circuit training. I'd go much lower if I did your long kettling routines.

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BigChocFrenzy · 05/01/2014 13:23

Hormosis The OP also describes it and has links. Dr Mark Mattson is probably the world's leading researcher in this field - but no book from him yet !

Hormesis seems a really major leap forward in Bending the Aging Curve and general health; it isn't an expensive pill you have to buy - probably the only reason why it isn't headline news around the world.

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EarSlaps · 05/01/2014 13:28

Positively- I was 31% body fat in July by that calculator, despite being 'healthy' BMI. It says I'm now 22.5%, just with a combination of 5:2, no snacking and exercise, plus reduced carb portions. You can do it too!

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EarSlaps · 05/01/2014 13:29

swinging his bell- Grin

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BigChocFrenzy · 05/01/2014 15:14

Positive You would improve your health prospects with a lower BF %, but don't worry too much about your current stats:
you are officially already in the healthy range, see the OP link.

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BigChocFrenzy · 05/01/2014 15:19

EarSlaps Killer Buns and Thighs sounds only for the bravest.
Shock

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BetsyBell · 05/01/2014 15:35

Killer Buns and Thighs is a serious workout! Must dig out my copy

I'm just lurking on this thread at the moment. I have no proper exercise regime at all - it would be nice to have a big enough house that I could do a jillian dvd while everyone is at home but I don't. I do try and get out for a fast long walk or a cycle ride most days.

My work timetable has filled up a bit next term which means I can no longer assume I can get a workout while the kids are out the house - not that I did much last term so it was more wishful thinking than reality. However, taking steps to address this and have signed up for the much-awaited taekwondo class which runs twice a week in the evenings and is only 5 minutes from home. There are literally no viable excuses for not doing this!

My evening eating and feeding of the family will have to adjust to accommodate the class (as I can't eat my main meal anywhere near close to an exercise session) and these are practicalities I haven't quite worked out yet.

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MrsFlorrick · 05/01/2014 17:43

Breadandwine. Grin Be aware that i don't swing my girly 3 kg hand weights unlike your kettle bell. I use them for the strength part of my Jillian Michaels HIIT/strength workout.

If I had to swing my 3 kg girly (and yes Bigchoc they are purple and match my floor mat and my yoga stylee workout gear Wink), I'd probably keel over.

Done my JM ripped in 30 today again. Level 4 is hardcore. I'd better be ripped soon or else....Grin

Well done on body fat loss Earslaps. Amazing Grin

My body fat is currently 25%. I still have a few lbs to lose so
It will go down with that.

As I am fairly ancient (gimmer), my body fat shouldn't be below 23% apparently. I'd be lucky to get to that never mind having to worry about "too low" body fat Grin

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ImABadGirl · 05/01/2014 18:24

What's the 30 day squat challenge, sounds brutal!

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BigChocFrenzy · 05/01/2014 19:25

Betsy Taekwondo twice weekly, plus brisk walks / cycles is a good exercise regime - and there's always that Killer DVD ^^.

Only 5 mins journey to Taekwondo - so get stuck in, no excuses ! ^^
Let us know how the first class goes and how your fists and feet become lethal weapons.
Smile

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BigChocFrenzy · 05/01/2014 19:27

Can anyone tell BadGirl what the 30 day squats are like ?

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BiscuitsAreMyDownfall · 05/01/2014 19:31

My weights really are girly, they are 1.5 kg's each. They are pink too. Although they are the middle of a set of 3. I do plan to move up to the larger purple ones (2kg I think they are). I don't want to be too muscled anyway, just toned.

The 30 day squat challenge is a program you do for a month each day building up the number of squats. I considered doing a 30 day plank challenge, but now do a variety of arm and abs exercises each day. I figured my legs and bum get toned by my running.

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BetsyBell · 05/01/2014 19:32

In term time the brisk walks and cycling will fall by the wayside (and be replaced by being in feet all day + running around after many small children! (I like to set up little fitness classes for the smalls at playtime - sadly this year's crop are less keen than last years. But, it is a fact that all kids love to chase or be chased - that's always fun! And most importantly keeps me warm on winter days)

Here's hoping Taekwondo lives up to expectation.

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ImABadGirl · 05/01/2014 19:36

Right I've found it on google, so first day 50 squats then 55 and so on and so forth until you get to 250!!

wow, if that doesn't give you buns of steels I don't know what will!

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BigChocFrenzy · 05/01/2014 20:38

My previous trainer had us do squats with 15kg barbells through 2 full songs, so over 7 mins. I'm pretty sure that was over the 250 challenge.
It's ok when you are used to squats, more that the barbell bruised the shoulders.

OK, who is up for the squat challenge - BadGirl ? Anyone else ?

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BigChocFrenzy · 05/01/2014 21:34

Biscuits Instead of spending time doing light dumbbell sets, just do press-ups:
they work all the major upper body muscle groups, so you don't need to do anything else; you save time and get better results.

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ImABadGirl · 05/01/2014 21:40

Every 3 days is a rest day, I'm starting tomorrow Smile

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BiscuitsAreMyDownfall · 05/01/2014 21:50

Good thinking BigChoc I will look for my own 30 day challenge. I can actually do proper press ups too, only about 4 or 5 at once, but I can still do them.

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EarSlaps · 05/01/2014 22:18

Did Killer again today, I will get toned thighs! Smile I used 7.5kg weights for the dead lifts, I could probably do a little heavier next time.

After a bit of a break from proper fasting I'm wondering where to go next with it since I'm at target weight. The Dr Varady article in The Times suggested 3 x 1000 cal days, but that's assuming you've been doing ADF. MM in the 5:2 suggests going to one 500 cal FD. I was wondering about doing 2 days at around 800 cals- so skipping breakfast, a light lunch and a light dinner. I guess I can just mix it up a bit depending on what plans I have for the week. Should keep my metabolism guessing anyway.

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TrucksAndDinosaurs · 06/01/2014 02:49

Oh hello, great thread. Marking place although I no longer do 5:2 - I switched to 16:8 several months ago. And am still low carb/primal. Anyway,< waves to Mrs Florrick and Earslaps> is nice to see you here.

Heaps of good advice. I am the new proud owner of weight bench and 100lb of barbells. Got trainer booked as early 43rd birthday present to show me good lifting form in two weeks time. Meanwhile my homework is 60 seconds in plank the way she showed me: total body lockdown. Activating lats, core, pelvic floor, lifting quads, knees, calves .... A million times harder than what I've been doing and calling planks - and I had good superficial form. Looked nice and straight, can do 20+ full push ups....

I had no idea that my body could lock down internally and externally with such brutal precision and work so hard. And I say that as an ex dancer.

If anyone is wondering whether its worth booking a PT with a lot of experience in remedial/body alignment stuff to teach good form then I would recommend it; it's revolutionised my work outs.

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BigChocFrenzy · 06/01/2014 06:45

Betsy
It's wonderful that you organise mini-fitness exercises for the minis.

Your early training could have major effects:
When I was 3-4, we had no car, so my mother used to walk me 2.5 miles each way to kindergarten and back, while we recited the multiplication tables. I think that is what started both my exercise bug and my liking for maths (all my degrees are maths-related).

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BigChocFrenzy · 06/01/2014 06:48

Biscuits Good for you, managing proper press-ups !

You will soon get stronger. If you concentrate on reaching say a couple of sets of 10, it will improve the shape & tone of your body far more than little dumbbells.

Why not a press-up challenge ? Try press-ups 3 days per week, increasing by say 2 press-ups each week ?

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BigChocFrenzy · 06/01/2014 07:29

Amazing plank, Trucks and congratulations on your heavy weights setup.
That all sounds very professional.

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ELR · 06/01/2014 09:21

Bit of advice required. Haven't done any exercise at all apart from walking for a good 3/4 months due to various ailments. Anyway feeling better now so yesterday did the 7 minute work which is a combo of jumping jacks, press ups, planks, running on the spot ect. I found it quite good and enjoyed it, today muscles are aching mainly arms and chest I think from the press ups and tricep dips. So my question is should I do it again today or skip a day and do it tomorrow, do my muscles need to recover? Feel pathetic as it's only a 7 minute workout!!

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