Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 31/12/2013 01:51

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Fasted training, i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF, but it is advisable to first become used to fasting

Exercise alone does not produce significant weight loss for most people. However it can improve body shape and can help overcome weight plateaux.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart diesease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

  • Try to train regularly, building up to 3-6 days per week.
  • Develop a training routine you enjoy and want to continue long term.
  • Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve" BendAge

WARNING: If you are very obese or have health issues, check with your GP that you are able to start exercising and also if there are types of exercise you should avoid.

Fat and Metabolism

Body fat is highly active tissue which secretes hormones (e.g. leptin, adiponectin) and microphages (which cause inflammation) directly into the bloodstream. These substances can significantly affect metabolism & weight and increase the risk of diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, some cancers.
E.g ref and ref

Visceral fat is more dangerous than subcutaneous - a study found that liposuction removing up to 20lb of the latter did not improve health indicators. Visceral fat needs to be reduced by exercise and a calorie deficit, preferably both together.

Hormesis

"What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson and Hormesis can be applied to exercise, analagous to how 5:2 /IF uses it for nutrition.
Alternating between “extremes” of feast and fast (like 5:2) or intense training and rest, makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is not necessary and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Only high intensity exercise recruits the fast-twitch muscle fibers that have the most glycogen (stored glucose). Steady State Cardio does not empty the glucose stores in those particular muscles. Hence, the circulating glucose has nowhere to be stored — except as bodyfat.

Moreover, the muscle cells will lose their sensitivity to insulin and become inflamed by the high levels of insulin, which the body has produced to deal with the high levels of circulating glucose. The body mortars this inflammation with LDL cholesterol.

Hence, those exercising only at low-medium intensity are at greater risk of cardiovascular problems than high intensity exercisers SteadyState (pp. 31-34).
Obviously, non-exercisers have the highest risk of all.

RECOMMENDED TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do a variety of training: HIIT cardio, resistance and flexibility.

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are inadequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.
However, 10 mins walk on a treadmill or outside is beneficial after training, especially after heavy lifting.
Scientists have proved that cardio and resistance training can be done in the same session, without detriment to either, e.g. TrainBoth

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

Flexibility

  • Stretching for 5 mins before and after each training session is recommended
  • Yoga and Pilates classes can be added if additional flexibility training is desired. Some such classes also provide additional strength / toning.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods. Time intervals may be equal or different and their length and the number of sets depends on fitness level.

Start with one session per week and build up to a maximum of 3 (no more).

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis). However, beginners should build up gradually, starting say with just 1 or 2 intervals.

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs
or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer classes, e.g.
spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)
which each use a form of interval training.
These classes require less planning and are often more enjoyable (music, socialising, equipment) than training on your own.

A typical HIIT session could consist of:

  • 4 mins warmup
  • 8 sets of intervals
  • 4 mins cooldown
and last 12-60 mins in total.

Recovery time is usually half the high intensity time.
Examples of typical interval sets are:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery OR
  • 40 sec high + 20 sec low OR
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low

Detailed HIIT example plans: (scroll down to Workouts section and ignore whether entitled "cutting" or "bulking") BodyBuild

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

This helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.

It is easier in a gym, especially re equipment. You can lift in the weights area on your own OR in a pump class.
Whether @ gym or home, before you start lifting, have a few lessons with a trainer to learn the correct form and avoid injury.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

WARNING
The "Heavy" lifting described here should not exceed bodyweight unless you are really fit and expert.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Main Lifting / Resistance Exercises

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests
E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups. Alternatively, use bodyweight.
squats
bent-over rows (press button "female")
Behind neckPress (press button "female")
dead lift
The abs and smaller muscle groups will automatically be trained by these exercises, but you can add optionally 20 mins weekly abs exercises:

Basic Abs

  • Situps: build up to 3 sets of 20 reps. Try to put your arms in front of you, instead of behind your head
  • Angled situps: with one ankle resting on the opposite knee. 2 sets of 15 each side
  • Plank: 3 sets, each 45 secs
  • Leg extensions: legs bent 90 degrees, so your lower legs are parallel to the floor. Stretch each leg in turn, parallel to the floor. 3 sets of 10.

Lifting To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets
e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

Lifting To Build More Muscle
With a lower weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

Additionally, or if you don't have heavy barbells, use your bodyweight.
Example to build up to:

  • 3 sets of 30 press ups, proper ones, see detail below +.
  • 40 deep squats, with thighs parallel to floor, i.e. ATG (Arse to Grass) see ++.
  • 3 set of 8 reps inverted pullup /row Inverted OR assisted chin-ups on a gym machine OR full chin-ups if you can manage them (Amazon have pullup bars which fit over doors from about £15)

+Press ups

  • It is best to keep attempting one proper pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms.

++Squats

  • Are the best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -For bodyweight squats, bring your arms forward -Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

CAUTION With Leangains-Type Protocols

5:2 is an easier WOL than other forms of IF, with most days being NFDs during which the body can recuperate.

Some women have had injuries or health problems with very tough LeanGains-type protocols, which combine ADF or daily 16:8 with fasted lifting of multiples of body weight.

Some women have achieved excellent results on LeanGains-type; others had problems after a few months, or even from the start. Particularly at risk are women with very low (11-18%) body fat, possibly already with irregular menstruation, or with EDs.

Post-menopausal women seem to do well, as do men, presumably due to differences in hormones, body fat %, metabolism.

RECOMMENDATION: Don't lift more than your bodyweight and mostly lift well below it.

Running versus Walking

Walking is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref . Typical values:

  • For running (5 mph and higher): Total calories burned per mile = .75 x body weight (in pounds); net calories (see ++) burned per mile = .63 x weight.
  • For walking (3 to 4 mph): Total calories burned per mile = .53 x body weight; net calories burned per mile = .30 x weight.

++ Note: net calories = total calories - cals the body would have burned at rest (calculated from BMR)

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

We start losing bone density from about age 35. Women can lose a great deal before, during and after menopause.

Other risk factors: Smoking, heavy drinking, inactive lifestyle, very slim build, family history of osteoporosis, longterm steroid use.

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight bearing exercises that load the bone along its length

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better than lunges: The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density as it does not really load bones along their length. A study found that cyclists who did no other exercise had low bone density because of the combo of this with their training Osteo

KETTLEBELLS

Useful exercise descriptions and videos: Kettle
Recommended for beginners (and shown in the link):
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

How to Choose a Gym (if you want to)

  • gym offpeak can be as cheap as £30 p.m. as you don't need expensive pools, sauna, juice bars, massage etc.
  • within journey time 20 mins
  • plenty of classes at times to suit you
  • creche if needed
  • don't bother with expense of a personal trainer.

Start with these classes if available:

  • weekly spin, because you can set your own resistance and speed 45-60 mins
  • any additional interval training class, see earlier for list.
  • weekly pump 60 mins
  • weekly abs class 15-30 mins

======================================

CALCULATORS:
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages:
HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

More links: 52FastDietForum-Fasting & Exercise 52exercise GettingStronger.Org-Hormesis Hormesis GettingStronger.Org-Fitness Fitness LeanGains Protocols : Leangains MarksDailyApple-Home Workouts Without Equipment WorkAtHome

OP posts:
MrsFlorrick · 28/01/2014 13:36

That's what I do Grin
Agree about Martin berkham. Read a lot about/from him. That's what got me into IF and HIIT.

I like JMs workouts. They give me serious results. And I can stick to it even with my hands full/small DC/useless H etc.

It's not about picking one programme with a diet and a workout. It's about picking the best bits of a diet/woe and workouts and combining them to best suit your metabolism.

TalkinPeace · 28/01/2014 14:56

well I just swam today - working ... and no gym at all tomorrow ... but my target for Thursday is to start learning how to do the uneven monkey bars at the gym : we have a lovely mad lady who is uber strong and wants us to be as well. I seem to have been sucked into her group Grin

ErrolTheDragon · 28/01/2014 15:44

Bigchoc... thanks, good! ... ok, so could you suggest another exercise complementary to press-ups which works different muscles but again preferably upper body?

EarSlaps · 28/01/2014 16:24

we have a lovely mad lady who is uber strong and wants us to be as well. I seem to have been sucked into her group

Now are you sure you aren't at the same gym as BigChoc, Tip? Grin

MrsFlorrick · 28/01/2014 16:52

Well I did hear Bigchoc regularly gym-hops.... Wink Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 28/01/2014 18:40

Errol For additional upper body exercises, which work the major muscle groups, you need more than light dumbbells. I recommend you get a light barbell (not one of those massive ones for blokes) and some light weight plates (easy to buy more plates when you get stronger)

Any of these exercises from my OP, or maybe one set each for for variety. Just start with one set of 5 per exercise and build up.
bent-over rows (press button "female")
Behind neckPress (press button "female")
dead lift

ErrolTheDragon · 28/01/2014 18:54

A barbell ... blimey, that's not something I'd seen myself wanting but I think I can see the point versus heavier dumbells. I'm not sure I want to ask what you class as 'light'!Grin Presumably I can estimate where to start from similar moves with dumbells.

Lazysuzanne · 28/01/2014 18:57

Errol these sorts of rows are also quite good to work the opposing muscle groups www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detail/view/name/inverted-row-with-straps
and may be easier on the lower back than bent over rows

also behind neck presses can be a little risky for shoulder health, a military press may be safer, I'd also suggest higher reps than 5, the 6-12 rep range tends to be better for strength building and I'd suggest 3 sets rather than one.
A light warm up set and a couple of heavier work sets

BigChocFrenzy · 28/01/2014 19:03

Nope, I don't hop around; I just divide my training between the 2 gyms to which I belong. They are only 400 yds apart, so they are in bitter competition and I have a good choice of classes. They are competing on quality, not price.
Smile
Sounds like Tip has found another strong woman who likes to thrash the hunks. Keep us posted on what you do in this group, please !
Wink
I was disgusted in CrossFit today to see big strong young hunks doing girlie press-ups towards the end of the circuit. They were too tired to do the full ones. Ah diddums.
And then I was loading the barbell with 20 kg and these strapping 6-footers were only lifting 10kg. Pathetic wimps.

I did blink a bit when we were supposed to be swinging kettle bells. I took a 16 kg one and my allocated partner (we take pot luck each day) went to the dumbbell rack and chose an effing pink 1kg one !!! She is one of the spinning instructors, 32 years younger than I am. I felt she let the side down.

Hmm What's up with the younger generation ^^

ErrolTheDragon · 28/01/2014 19:07

Suzanne, the trouble with that one is it needs gym kit - I'm looking for things to do at home. Smile Touch wood never had a back problem - one of the advantages of being short perhaps.

I've got some military presses in the shred level I'm on, distractingly combined with standing on one leg waving the other around (ok 'leg extension'). Can start to do some more of those with what I've got - but the row-type thing sounds good, I really do need 'pull' for the watersports.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/01/2014 19:08

Particularly for someone using a barbell for the first time, I recommend starting with one set of 5, to get used to a new exercise, then building up to more reps and more sets. You'll quickly improve.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/01/2014 19:14

I'm another short-arse and I've never had back problems with these either. It's usually people who either lift with bad technique or try to lift much too heavy weights too early.
Try with your heaviest dumbbells, but if they seem too easy, then don't be frightened off barbells. There are some slim, light ones suitable for beginners.

ErrolTheDragon · 28/01/2014 19:31

I shall experiment tomorrow. Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 28/01/2014 19:34

btw I never lift even the lightest weight if I'm balanced on one leg or even balanced on both if I'm on a BOSU-type wobbly plate. I am really paranoid about falling and having a bad crash landing if both hands aren't free, or being hit in the face by a weight when I fall.

Middle aged women like us don't bounce well and we take much longer than before to recover fitness after injury or illness. Don't take risks.

TalkinPeace · 28/01/2014 20:55

I've done 1kg weights kneeling on a swiss ball, but I do have ridiculously good balance and hip flexibility

I want to learn how to do a load of the arm balances in yoga ....

my weight limit is my knee joints! they protest if the total load goes over 70 kg including me !

errol
gym kit : TK maxx is your friend : all permutations of leggings and tops with sleeves or nay

BetsyBell · 28/01/2014 21:21

I came to the realisation today that I have never had so much fun as I do at Tae Kwon Do.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/01/2014 21:58

Wonderful to hear that, Betsy
When you find an exercise / sport you really enjoy and that significantly improves your fitness, then it is just the best feeling.
Grin

MrsFlorrick · 28/01/2014 22:06

Bigchoc. I'm scared. Wink

Did my JM workout this evening. Tired now.

Megrim · 28/01/2014 22:58

Day 2 of JM today and I am hobbling up and down the stairs as my thighs have seized up. DS (who is ridiculously fit) is giving me no sympathy.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/01/2014 23:47

MrsF Your DA (Dear Arse) might be more wary of upsetting you if he saw you wielding a fearsome barbell or swinging a mighty kettle à la B&W

ErrolTheDragon · 29/01/2014 08:06

gym kit : TK maxx is your friend : all permutations of leggings and tops with sleeves or nay
I meant the equipment - it didn't look like something I could simulate at home. I do have clothes - even at home! Grin

Balancing on one leg is probably less scary at home than in a gym- on carpet and close to the sofa! But I am forming the opinion that trying to do upper body at the same time as a one-leg exercise makes it harder to do either properly.

ErrolTheDragon · 29/01/2014 08:11

Megrim

Day 2 of JM today and I am hobbling up and down the stairs as my thighs have seized up

Hence my bungalow comment! - this is normal. Push through it for a day or two more and you will be through the worst - and you'll probably be able to feel that your legs are stronger which makes it worthwhile. Being short I have to stand on chairs a lot to reach my top kitchen shelves, I found it suddenly easy to step up chair height after my first week shredding!

ErrolTheDragon · 29/01/2014 09:29

OK, shredded, 3x25sec side planks per side, 3x10 military press with 10lb dumbbells, 3x10 standing rows with 10 lb dumbells, and 1x5 deadlifts with DH's pair of 8kg dumbbells. Going with suzannes suggestions re reps/sets on the first two because that's what the weights I have allow. Whether barbell or more dumbells, I'll need to get something between the 2x10lb (~9kg) and 2x8kg for the first two.

positively9something · 29/01/2014 09:54

So after overrating like crazy yesterday I've managed to drag myself to the gym!

20 mins on the treadmill mostly walking but running for 1 min or 1.5 mins a few times and now onto Zumba Wink

Wow my poor body really needs some exercise Smile

Lazysuzanne · 29/01/2014 10:32

Errol, a barbell is easier to stabilize but dumbells allow for a more 'neutral' hand position which can be more comfortable to shoulders and elbows.

I like to use cables for pressing but that's gym equipment, however in your situation I think I may try to rig something up with resistance bands.

Might be worth considering?

Swipe left for the next trending thread