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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 31/12/2013 01:51

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Fasted training, i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF, but it is advisable to first become used to fasting

Exercise alone does not produce significant weight loss for most people. However it can improve body shape and can help overcome weight plateaux.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart diesease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

  • Try to train regularly, building up to 3-6 days per week.
  • Develop a training routine you enjoy and want to continue long term.
  • Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve" BendAge

WARNING: If you are very obese or have health issues, check with your GP that you are able to start exercising and also if there are types of exercise you should avoid.

Fat and Metabolism

Body fat is highly active tissue which secretes hormones (e.g. leptin, adiponectin) and microphages (which cause inflammation) directly into the bloodstream. These substances can significantly affect metabolism & weight and increase the risk of diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, some cancers.
E.g ref and ref

Visceral fat is more dangerous than subcutaneous - a study found that liposuction removing up to 20lb of the latter did not improve health indicators. Visceral fat needs to be reduced by exercise and a calorie deficit, preferably both together.

Hormesis

"What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson and Hormesis can be applied to exercise, analagous to how 5:2 /IF uses it for nutrition.
Alternating between “extremes” of feast and fast (like 5:2) or intense training and rest, makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is not necessary and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Only high intensity exercise recruits the fast-twitch muscle fibers that have the most glycogen (stored glucose). Steady State Cardio does not empty the glucose stores in those particular muscles. Hence, the circulating glucose has nowhere to be stored — except as bodyfat.

Moreover, the muscle cells will lose their sensitivity to insulin and become inflamed by the high levels of insulin, which the body has produced to deal with the high levels of circulating glucose. The body mortars this inflammation with LDL cholesterol.

Hence, those exercising only at low-medium intensity are at greater risk of cardiovascular problems than high intensity exercisers SteadyState (pp. 31-34).
Obviously, non-exercisers have the highest risk of all.

RECOMMENDED TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do a variety of training: HIIT cardio, resistance and flexibility.

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are inadequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.
However, 10 mins walk on a treadmill or outside is beneficial after training, especially after heavy lifting.
Scientists have proved that cardio and resistance training can be done in the same session, without detriment to either, e.g. TrainBoth

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

Flexibility

  • Stretching for 5 mins before and after each training session is recommended
  • Yoga and Pilates classes can be added if additional flexibility training is desired. Some such classes also provide additional strength / toning.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods. Time intervals may be equal or different and their length and the number of sets depends on fitness level.

Start with one session per week and build up to a maximum of 3 (no more).

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis). However, beginners should build up gradually, starting say with just 1 or 2 intervals.

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs
or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer classes, e.g.
spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)
which each use a form of interval training.
These classes require less planning and are often more enjoyable (music, socialising, equipment) than training on your own.

A typical HIIT session could consist of:

  • 4 mins warmup
  • 8 sets of intervals
  • 4 mins cooldown
and last 12-60 mins in total.

Recovery time is usually half the high intensity time.
Examples of typical interval sets are:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery OR
  • 40 sec high + 20 sec low OR
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low

Detailed HIIT example plans: (scroll down to Workouts section and ignore whether entitled "cutting" or "bulking") BodyBuild

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

This helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.

It is easier in a gym, especially re equipment. You can lift in the weights area on your own OR in a pump class.
Whether @ gym or home, before you start lifting, have a few lessons with a trainer to learn the correct form and avoid injury.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

WARNING
The "Heavy" lifting described here should not exceed bodyweight unless you are really fit and expert.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Main Lifting / Resistance Exercises

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests
E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups. Alternatively, use bodyweight.
squats
bent-over rows (press button "female")
Behind neckPress (press button "female")
dead lift
The abs and smaller muscle groups will automatically be trained by these exercises, but you can add optionally 20 mins weekly abs exercises:

Basic Abs

  • Situps: build up to 3 sets of 20 reps. Try to put your arms in front of you, instead of behind your head
  • Angled situps: with one ankle resting on the opposite knee. 2 sets of 15 each side
  • Plank: 3 sets, each 45 secs
  • Leg extensions: legs bent 90 degrees, so your lower legs are parallel to the floor. Stretch each leg in turn, parallel to the floor. 3 sets of 10.

Lifting To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets
e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

Lifting To Build More Muscle
With a lower weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

Additionally, or if you don't have heavy barbells, use your bodyweight.
Example to build up to:

  • 3 sets of 30 press ups, proper ones, see detail below +.
  • 40 deep squats, with thighs parallel to floor, i.e. ATG (Arse to Grass) see ++.
  • 3 set of 8 reps inverted pullup /row Inverted OR assisted chin-ups on a gym machine OR full chin-ups if you can manage them (Amazon have pullup bars which fit over doors from about £15)

+Press ups

  • It is best to keep attempting one proper pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms.

++Squats

  • Are the best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -For bodyweight squats, bring your arms forward -Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

CAUTION With Leangains-Type Protocols

5:2 is an easier WOL than other forms of IF, with most days being NFDs during which the body can recuperate.

Some women have had injuries or health problems with very tough LeanGains-type protocols, which combine ADF or daily 16:8 with fasted lifting of multiples of body weight.

Some women have achieved excellent results on LeanGains-type; others had problems after a few months, or even from the start. Particularly at risk are women with very low (11-18%) body fat, possibly already with irregular menstruation, or with EDs.

Post-menopausal women seem to do well, as do men, presumably due to differences in hormones, body fat %, metabolism.

RECOMMENDATION: Don't lift more than your bodyweight and mostly lift well below it.

Running versus Walking

Walking is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref . Typical values:

  • For running (5 mph and higher): Total calories burned per mile = .75 x body weight (in pounds); net calories (see ++) burned per mile = .63 x weight.
  • For walking (3 to 4 mph): Total calories burned per mile = .53 x body weight; net calories burned per mile = .30 x weight.

++ Note: net calories = total calories - cals the body would have burned at rest (calculated from BMR)

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

We start losing bone density from about age 35. Women can lose a great deal before, during and after menopause.

Other risk factors: Smoking, heavy drinking, inactive lifestyle, very slim build, family history of osteoporosis, longterm steroid use.

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight bearing exercises that load the bone along its length

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better than lunges: The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density as it does not really load bones along their length. A study found that cyclists who did no other exercise had low bone density because of the combo of this with their training Osteo

KETTLEBELLS

Useful exercise descriptions and videos: Kettle
Recommended for beginners (and shown in the link):
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

How to Choose a Gym (if you want to)

  • gym offpeak can be as cheap as £30 p.m. as you don't need expensive pools, sauna, juice bars, massage etc.
  • within journey time 20 mins
  • plenty of classes at times to suit you
  • creche if needed
  • don't bother with expense of a personal trainer.

Start with these classes if available:

  • weekly spin, because you can set your own resistance and speed 45-60 mins
  • any additional interval training class, see earlier for list.
  • weekly pump 60 mins
  • weekly abs class 15-30 mins

======================================

CALCULATORS:
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages:
HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

More links: 52FastDietForum-Fasting & Exercise 52exercise GettingStronger.Org-Hormesis Hormesis GettingStronger.Org-Fitness Fitness LeanGains Protocols : Leangains MarksDailyApple-Home Workouts Without Equipment WorkAtHome

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2014 14:52

Michael Mosely's new HIIT book - my notes: part 3

HIIT is TIME-EFFICIENT

Scientific studies have shown that HIIT aerobic intervals taking a few mins total, performed 3 times weekly, increase fitness more than several hours weekly of standard low or medium intensity cardio !!!

Alternatives to the 2x 20-sec bursts at 100% flat out capacity*

  1. Do 5x 60 secs at 90% capacity, with 90 sec recovery periods in between.

  2. FatBurner - Only practical on a stationary bike:
    . Set resistance very high, so you can just pedal
    . Brief warmup 1-4 mins
    . Repeated intervals of 8 secs max speed, with 12 secs low speed recovery
    . Start by doing the intervals for at most a total of 5 mins (even 1 min) but build up the time. Very fit folk can eventually do say 15 mins
    . Brief cooldown 1 min

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2014 15:34

Michael Mosely's new HIIT book - my notes: part 4

WARNING for any training, HIIT or ordinary gym: If you have high blood pressure, then avoid isometric exercises like plank, wall-sit etc

Even some patients recovering from heart surgery have been put on HIIT, so nearly everyone can do it. BUT, to begin, you need to choose exercises to fit your capability, then build up your fitness.

4-minute Blast

Instead of intervals, you can also increase cardio fitness by doing this 3 x weekly:
. Brief warmup 1-4 mins
. Exercise at 90% effort for 4 mins. You should be breathless and exhausted afterward.
. Brief cooldown 1 min

Suitable exercises for 4-Minute Blast: Running, stair-running, cycling, walking uphill (for the less fit)

Fast STRENGTH

No equipment needed, takes only from 10 mins per session.
Basic idea is to do non-stop intervals, exercising as many muscle groups as possible, so different groups can rest while you are working the others.
So, combines resistance and aerobic training.

Example combinations (of 2 exercises):
-press-ups with sit-ups
-tricep dips with squats
-high energy (e.g.jumping jacks, sprints, step-ups, mountain climb), with something more sedate, e.g. plank, side-pland, wall-sit
Many other combinations, just need to work different muscle groups.

Routine:
.Brief warmup for 1-4 mins, until you feel ready
. As many reps of exercise 1 as you can in 30 secs
. Rest 10 secs
. 30 secs of exercise 2, as many reps as you can
. Rest 10 secs
. Start by doing these "double intervals" for 7 min total sessions twice per week ( or whatever you can). Build up to longer time period, but safe frequency probably 5x weekly
. Brief cool-down

TalkinPeace · 12/01/2014 15:50

and just to balance things a bit, me at HIIT do not get on
but
for ladies (and gents of a certain age) core strength is ever so ever so important

one of the fun tests is to do a side plank

straight arm, other arm directly above it - straight line wrist to wrist
feet balanced one on to of the other - legs straight
so ALL balance is on the outside edge of one foot and the heel of the same hand
hips lifted as high as your ab muscles will allow

once that gets easy, with the arm straight, reach out forwards until your shoulders are parallel to the floor but you are still on the one hand one foot

I can do two repeats now - but it seems to work every muscle from knees to neck till they scream ...
my target is 5 each side

ErrolTheDragon · 12/01/2014 16:59

'If you have high blood pressure, then avoid isometric exercises like plank, wall-sit etc'

That's something I've never heard before - its rather counter-intuitive. I don't have high BP but my DH does - AFAIK he doesn't do any isometrics but if he catches me planking he might decide to try so useful info.

TalkinPeace · 12/01/2014 17:19

I've not heard that either - static holds that build strength without stressing the CV system seem to be a BIG part of pilates, yoga and most PT systems

ErrolTheDragon · 12/01/2014 17:54

Just tried the SOOLWEC challenge - I was rubbish at it yesterday, but managed 40sec on left leg and nearly 50 on right (after a few sub-30 sec attempts). Its a fun thing to while away the time if you're microwaving something, why waste a countdown timer? I think I found it easier on the kitchen floor (laminate) rather than carpet - easier to make small adjustments.

I've not found time yet to watch the Horizon link, but its interesting how much harder it is to balance with your eyes shut.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2014 18:57

I've read this warning elsewhere and also heard verbally from a couple of trainers: both isometric exercises (done for more than a few seconds) and heavy lifting exercises raise the blood pressure temporarily.
Hence those with high blood pressure are warned by more cautious trainers and medical personnel to avoid 'em.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2014 19:03

Several more scientific refs, but clear explanation in LiveStrong

In most healthy individuals, isometric exercises and the associated rise in blood pressure are of little consequence, but if your blood pressure is already elevated, the dramatic elevation of blood pressure can prove hazardous or even fatal.

According to the American College of Sports Medicine, those with high blood pressure should avoid isometric exercises, e.g. plank and wall squats; doing so may have a negative effect on cardiorespiratory health.

Baloostika · 12/01/2014 19:26

Thank u guys for all these very useful infos.
I only had two days of exercise last week, I'm planning on going to the gym five days this week since I'll be less busy.
Have a great week my friends.

TalkinPeace · 12/01/2014 19:36

BigChoc
Interesting - I'm not affected as I have clinically low BP (80:50 was the record that made the nurses check their kit)
but DH was one of the many who had "GP surgery" high BP and if he was measured without knowing it was coming it turned out his BP was normal ...

EarSlaps · 12/01/2014 19:50

Interesting- the fast strength thing is basically like the seven minute workout I've done a few times (when I fancy a change from Jillian). Might do a couple of circuits of it tonight.

EarSlaps · 12/01/2014 19:51

Btw, I haven't timed my SOOLWEC, but I know it will be embarrassingly rubbish!

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2014 19:59

Tip 80:50 !!!
Shock
Um, I suspected you might be a Vulcan. Do you have green skin and pointy ears ?

TalkinPeace · 12/01/2014 20:06

Wink BigChoc
What made it worse was that I'd just run up a flight of stairs with a toddler on my hip .... was pregnant at the time.
The poor nurse nearly passed out when she saw the numbers. They checked and rechecked several times, until I was able to convince them that I am a freak ...
Normal now is 90:60
Resting pulse rate can drop very low ... my grandfathers pulse rate was 23 - he used to wear out pacemakers!

My lazy blood system may be why I do not get on with HIIT ...

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2014 20:08

Tip I occasionally do a side plank, sometimes with straight arm like yours, or another version with my forearm on the floor, but with the upper leg raised.
I hold that position a while, then I raise and lower myself 10 times, keeping that upper leg straight and in the air, while the other is straight on the ground. So, it is a kind of side abs curl.
Both my versions have the other arm pointing straight upwards.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2014 20:10

Oops, for both side planks, I mean the lower leg is straight, only the foot edge is on the floor.

TalkinPeace · 12/01/2014 20:12

In yoga we take the upper leg and hold it - pointing straight up ....
but the roll forwards is fine ... the other name for it is 'threading the needle' - a lovely bit of work for the side abs and intercostals

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2014 20:13

HIIT fitness normally a low resting pulse, but from your experience there may be lower limits. Possibly the Bell Curve again, as for so much to do with humans.

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 12/01/2014 21:56

Hi need to read the weekends posts but just wanted to say Thanks BigChoc for your encouraging words Fri, and I will respond to them properly. Not been on this thread since my last post, as I am lazy didn't realise how busy it would be!

On same note I can't wait to have a go at the stand on one leg challenge, but not yet!! I have got some weird virus thing (or I am just weird?) and have been suffering with dodgy ears so it would be an unrealistic result Hmm

Did have a go back when watched prog. Can't remember what it was though.

Anyone else been suffering with weird symptom bugs?

I don't have cough/snot etc in classic cold way, but my ears are blocked/constantly popping, dull thudding headache, sinus stuffy, whole body aching, head feels fuzzy and I feel very weak. Breathing also seems bit shallow and I feel very out of breath quickly.

I'm rarely ill so it's very unusual not to mention unwelcome!

Anyone shed any light on this? We're fortunately quite an illness free household so I'm bit out of touch with what's what.

Am I ill people or am I just hypochondriacising Wink my way out of exercise/motivation/life!

BiscuitsAreMyDownfall · 12/01/2014 21:59

I've skimmed the thread and googled but I can't see the answer. What's the SOOLWEC challenge?

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2014 22:12

Cuckoo My diagnosis is that you have HIBGIA ^^
Flowers How you are soon well enough to stand on one leg Smile

ELR · 12/01/2014 22:13

tip that's interesting about the low blood pressure and not getting on with hit workouts. I have low blood pressure too can't remember what but always commented on whenever it's taken. I absolutely do not get on with high intense cardio at all!

ErrolTheDragon · 12/01/2014 22:31

Biscuits - its Standing On One Leg With Eyes Closed.

More microwaving after the last report so more wobbling precariously and hopping a bit standing on one leg - 50 secs on right leg, left leg got to the ping at a minute still standing!

BiscuitsAreMyDownfall · 12/01/2014 22:37

Thanks Errol I assume that the longer you can do it, the better you are or something.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2014 22:40

hope (not how) you are well enough, cuckoo