The 5:2 Thread Number 24 - Summer's still here so skip the snack and share the meal!

[BetsyBell]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through our very own fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

NoTeaForMe: I'm breastfeeding too: my DS is 16 weeks old, and I haven't had any difficulties keeping this up while 5:2ing. I've done two weeks and have lost 2 lbs so far - not much, but I only want to lose half a stone, so am pretty pleased. DS is doing really well and gaining weight, and I haven't noticed any drop in milk supply. Still, because it is early days for you, I would say to make sure you take it easy on yourself - I have found fast days very tiring, although whether that's because the few calories I take in are used by the baby, or just down to sleepless nights of feeding, but either way, give it a go for a few weeks and see how you go. Good luck!

I am on MFP but only ever posted a couple of questions. I didn't get a lot of answers tbh and haven't been on for a while. I just hate this panic feeling I get as soon as I realise I am hungry .

Like previous, much more experienced posters said, I think it would help if you felt more relaxed about it. But just to answer some of your worries/questions:

1. What you eat on fast days and how often

Try to delay your first meal of the day as much as possible. If you need to eat breakfast/lunch, have something high protein like egg. Avoid fruit as it will cause a sugar spike and crash. A lot of people eat soup for dinner, a lot of it. I like those glorious skinny soups, or the Waitrose love life soup - depending what it is, you can eat the whole carton if you want to (I can't).

1. Calorie counting

Deffo calorie count your fast days. As Frenchfancy says, you don't have to count the non fast days. It's up to you. Personally, if I were you, I would count the NFD as well at first, just for a couple of weeks to begin with, so you have an idea of what 1800 calories look like. After you get a idea of what 1800 calories look like, you can stop counting calories and just eye ball it, if you want to. It's totally up to you.

1. Emotional eating

Fd are no brainers. 500 calories, whether you are sad/happy/angry/whatever. Non-negotiable. Come and get strength from the thread if you need to. Try to have snack free days on NFD - this should help with the emotional eating.

Hi newbie de-lurking. I have a quick question...I have recently been able to start exercising again after a long time, only a Lesley Sanone walking dvd, but do i now add some calories back to my TDEE? I am 4' 11" and my current TDEE is 1450 so a few more calories would be helpful .. thanks

shorter
your TDEE includes your exercise levels
no adding back
at all

but i first calculated my TDEE at sedentary and now i am exercising 5 days a week but have not re-calculated.

Tdee is only a rough guide- if you exercise, then eat a bit more.

Miss strawberry what's your name on mfp? I'm rather in imaginatively melaniechreks on there too....

MissStrawberry like you, I am an emotional eater. I find not doing so easier on fast days than on non fast days. The mantra "I'll have it tomorrow, if I still want it" works well but is tougher on nfd's

Additionally, stopping snacking by only eating at mealtimes and, when hit by the urge, saying to myself "ooh yummy, I'll have that at teatime" works at least half the time. Having treats but in smaller quantities is made easier with forward planning. Instead of waiting til I have a chocolate craving then buying a bar of fruit and nut, I buy a box of really nice truffles and have one after tea every night. And I take my time over it - smell it, let it melt in my mouth and avoid drinking anything for a few minutes to really enjoy the flavour.

Ice pops are very low calories, taste sweet and take a while to eat.

I am avoiding having dorito's in the house though because I wolf down every packet I open!!

shorterstuff Same height and TDEE as you. What has helped me with the calories is cutting out the snacks. Makes a huge difference in terms of what I can eat for actual meals. Trying to eat 500 calories each for breakfast/lunch/dinner is actually quite hard. I manage 300 calories for breakfast, around 350-400 each for lunch and dinner most days.

Someone tell me there's a point where you don't feel like crap all afternoon and get a headache any more on a fast day. Bit fed up of it!

MissStrwberry one of the best tips I got from here is that hunger comes in waves. I used to fear hunger too and would eat just to avoid feeling hungry. Now when hunger strikes (and it does not happen as often as you think it would on this WOE), I just have a drink of water, tea or coffee and see if that gets rid of the hunger pangs. Most of the time it does.

Survived my fifth fast day. I seem to be managing on tea, coffee and water until about 7pm when I have a lovely dinner. Steak and salad for me tonight, tasted amazing after nothing all day!

I too am an emotional eater and 2 weeks ago was terrified of being hungry. I am trying to embrace the hunger and, thanks to some great tips up thread, am trying to enjoy the lightness it brings.

Don't think about it too much, just try it and drink lots of water. Fizzy water really helps me.

thaliablogs There is a point where you don't feel like crap all afternoon and get a headache any more on fast days.

I can't tell you exactly when, about a month in I realised that fast days were no longer a chore.

Missstrawberry i think you are overthinking this. Initially, i really would just stick to eating 500 cals on fast days and just eat what you want on non-fast days...the tracking of food on MFP can come later once you are more comfortable.

I used to be so scared of hunger pangs and was constantly snacking just to keep them away. It really was a huge leap of faith to do this but it was worth it!! I have learnt that i am not going to die because of hunger pangs and has certainly helped my snacking habit on non-fast days (i wouldnt say it has cured it ;-) ) and i nolonger fear hunger, i can leave the house without food in my bag and not panic where my next meal is coming from. It really has liberated me.

Please just give it a go and see :-)

thalia I actually forgot I was fasting yesterday - about 6.15pm it dawned on me that I hadn't eaten all day and I hadn't missed it either. Then I went to the gym! Dinner at 9.15, so I was very ready for it. I started 5:2 almost 6 months ago.

Hello. De lurking. I started 5:2 about six weeks ago.

My normal pattern on a diet is probably typical, massively motivated and zealous for as long as it takes to lose about a stone and a half, paired with daily or twice daily weighing. Then an event such as a holiday, where I let go of my regime, followed by a slowly inevitable weight gain.

This time I haven't weighed myself so I can't obsessively check each ounce, with the inevitable misery when there's no loss. What I do know is that I find 5:2 days simple, even at work, feeding the family, going out. It's just simple. My mind is full on fast day evenings of the delights that I will have the following day, which bizarrely vanish when I wake up.

My clothes are looser, I have a pair of trousers which wouldn't come close to doing up when I started which are now looking like fitting pretty soon.

I sincerely hope this is my way forward now. I am optimistic. I don't want to be fat anymore. I just wanted to say maybe those of you who are struggling, try and make it simpler for yourself.

So I have my summer dress delivery at last and am happily sitting here in a medium sized, short dress. Yes a short dress. At my age too . I feel like a teenager with far less body confidence issues

Morning all .

Thank you for being so patient with me .

I have decided today is going to be a fast day. I am currently drinking water, feeling like I think I want to eat but not worrying about it (huge breakthrough for me) and already thinking I am going to really enjoy a small portion of the cheese and bacon lasagne I am making for the kids tea.

I don't drink tea or coffee, would skimmed milk be okay occasionally?

Even though I can buy any food I want and always have a well stocked kitchen I still feel like I did as a child when I couldn't eat when I wanted and never knew when my next meal was coming. I would stuff my face when I could just in case. I am obsessive about feeding my children well with a good variety and love to cook and bake for them.

Going to have another read of the posts now.

I love making soup so I will make a list and do that this week.

The hunger thing comes from being told no, I wouldn't lose more weight by feeling hungry as my body would just hold on to the fat it had. ** I also worry I have messed up my metabolism through not being consistent with what I eat each day. I even resorted to some fat metaboliser tablets from Holland & Barrett to try and rectify it but haven't lost anything on them.

** so thinking about fast days confuses me as it seems to be the opposite of what I was told. I am determined though even though dinner time is hours away. I will do this.

missstrawberry good luck today, I think your approach to 5:2 is going to be more complicated than most due to your feelings of control around food. I think your best fast days might be when you have a clear idea of what you are going to eat throughout the day so you can feel confident that you will be fed. And then decide what you're going to have the day after so you're not worrying unnecessarily.

When I know what the children are having for tea I definitely feel calmer as one less thing to worry about. I meal plan and write down each days tea. Tonight I am making a new recipe - cheese and bacon lasagne but as it has no calorie count I will have a smaller portion than usual with a leafy salad on the side.

missstrawberry good luck, keep drinking and keep busy. With children around that shouldn't be too hard!

morning all

as expected i'm 2lbs up today after a bit of an eating fest yesterday but you know what? it was lovely! i ate good quality, nutritious and truly enjoyable food. not crap and nonsense and empty calories you know? a genuine treat.

going to aim for a fast today and as there are no dinner engagements i've forgotten or anything i hope i shall actually manage it today!

hope everyone is doing ok. how are we finding fasting in the school holidays? it's alright if it's half term and you can think sod it it's only a week but this is a long old stretch isn't it?

and out of curiousity - have people still been getting the whole freezing cold whilst fasting thing during this heatwave? i haven't done a fast since it's been like this so am wondering if you still get chilly.