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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Diet thread! Number 17- ready for Spring! Any day now!

999 replies

GreenEggsAndNichts · 08/04/2013 13:21

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here. :)

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
swallowedAfly · 14/04/2013 07:57

hi aka. tricky. i don't think ADF is sustainable for life personally and it doesn't sound like you do. it also doesn't sound like this is sorting the real issue for you - just allowing it to continue. if you are only losing a pound a week with alternate day fasting then realistically you must be over eating by a huge amount on non fast days? don't mean to be rude btw. it does sound like you're going to need to tackle the non fast days somehow.

is it quantity of food or what foods you want that cause the excess do you thinK? if it's that you need to feel really full for example then it could be a case of filling up on the right foods that give that fullness without massive calorie counts and gradually reducing portions. if it's the type of food being eaten then it could be a case of cutting certain things out to break addictions? i don't know. need to understand more what's going on on your non fast days to be able to help.

i doubt that that 4lbs is a genuine 4lbs of fat gained from one less fast day. it could just be that that's what happens to your weight with two days of non fasting - as in your usual weigh ins are distorted by the adf effect. not sure itms.

swallowedAfly · 14/04/2013 08:02

more i think about it aka the more likely at your weight and with your difficulties to eat to tdee that you may need to do calorie counting for a while. like work out what you're eating each non fast day at the minute by recording everything honestly and then maybe having graduated targets for bringing that down. so cut a couple of hundred cals off, get used to that, then a bit more etc.

i know that is not what you want to hear (i really don't want to do calorie counting) but it does sound like you need to train yourself back into eating relatively normal amounts and that might take some time and strategy beyond hoping and wishing. to get to over 15st has taken some time and some consistent, long term overeating i presume - might take some time and some strategy to get out of that habit.

i'm still sat at 11.1 btw. at least it hasn't gone up any further i guess.

swallowedAfly · 14/04/2013 08:05

i'm not judging btw aka - hope that's clear. at one stage before i started this i weighed in at 12st4lbs. i was massively overeating bad foods over a long period of time, it had become a real habit and the amount i was eating was obscene really so it's only luck (or maybe having stopped a bit sooner) that means i was 12 something rather than 15 something iyswim. so definitely no judgment from me.

akarucker · 14/04/2013 08:10

saf chocolate is my addiction! I've tried having dark Choc but it's not cutting it for me. It's the rubbish stuff I'm addicted to. The thing is, and this is the mindset I'm trying to get rid of, but failing....I feel that if I'm fasting a few/couple of times a week (which I find enjoyable, but also hard), then I feel that I deserve some chocolate treats, otherwise it's deprivation all week. Sounds fair! Of course the problem is being able to stop!

I really want this woe to work for me, and I am enjoying it. My worry is that people talk about cravings disappearing, appetites shrinking, not feeling hungry, etc etc, and, two months in, I haven't found that yet. Will it come, or is my mindset too warped to get there I wonder? I do love the fact that on a fast day, I can really look forward to my eat day, but maybe too much!! I'm worried about feeling deprived though, as deprivation is usually what knocks me off the wagon on old diets! That's why I liked this woe.

Urgh, it was all going to well, but maybe I need to get more realistic as to whether this woe is right for me...

akarucker · 14/04/2013 08:14

I over posted your comments. I agree, I think I need to count my calories for a while, and see if cutting back is going to make me feel deprived or not. Fast day today, so this will give me some time to give it some thought. Thanks for your advice saf

swallowedAfly · 14/04/2013 08:16

aka i think this woe is working well for you but the chocolate addiction is sabotaging it clearly. you won't be finding the appetite shrink or the tastes changing if you are mainlining chocolate because it'll be overriding it all. it's a powerful hit from eating this stuff and it can be addiction like as you do even get a brain chemistry reaction.

when you say some chocolate treats on a non fast day realistically how much chocolate are you talking and in what forms are you having it?

akarucker · 14/04/2013 08:32

As I haven't figured out how may calories I'm eating yet, this is a guess....my TDEE is about 2000. In guessing 2000 I have in normal, healthy food. Great! Stop there you say......but then I'm guessing about 800-1000 cals in chocolate bars and/or sugary rubbish Blush.

Ok, so even as I write this, I can see that this is rediculous! This is obviously quite an easy fix.

swallowedAfly · 14/04/2013 08:34

yeah. it's hard but obviously you can see the madness in it. your options are quit chocolate cold turkey Shock or maybe take those healthy cals down to 700 and have one chocolate bar at the end of the day i guess.

i had to go cold turkey on the ben and jerry's i was hooked on.

swallowedAfly · 14/04/2013 08:36

and i think you have to rethink the 'treat' element. how is it a treat if it is sabotaging you? how a treat if it means that all that work of alternate fast days is undone? think you need to try and look at it as an addiction to something not good for you that is the reason you've put this weight on and the reason you're struggling to lose it. more a drug than a treat.

swallowedAfly · 14/04/2013 08:36

1700 not 700! sorry

BetsyVanBell · 14/04/2013 08:38

aka - Have you watched the Robert Lustig lecture on sugar? The Bitter Truth. It's long but it might help. You're addicted to sugar I think and need to do something to jolt yourself away from thinking you're treating yourself by eating loads of chocolate. If the dark chocolate isn't cutting it for you then it's the sugar hit you're after. My sugar issues are coming back too - just takes a little 'treat' snack each day to build up the cravings and expectations of it. In the past I've given up sugar products as much as possible (ie all obviously sweet things but need to try to stop with the white flour and cereal products and other 'hidden' sugars) - it takes up to 2 weeks of avoiding for the cravings to go, but once they do you have freedom to make better choices.

I need to make a complete break from sugar too. I've just convinced myself to start today. I do allow myself to eat naturally occurring sugar in fruit but not too much. And I think I should avoid some dried fruits - dates are very high GI for example.

The bitter truth on you tube:

aka I want freedom from my sugar addiction and I think you do too - would you like to join me in giving it up?

Once you've given it up it is possible to eat a pudding some days without it taking over - it's when it's daily it becomes a problem. It's utterly addictive and it's not your fault but we can take control!

swallowedAfly · 14/04/2013 08:43

i will join in too if you two are going for it. about to watch that film. i had definitely gotten addicted and my time slot was when i got into bed. i would eat myself into a nice serotonin hit and then go to sleep content.

BetsyVanBell · 14/04/2013 08:44

I found that other film Hungry ForChange on US netflix so have now watched it B&W, thanks for the link. I've watched/read loads of stuff about the US food industry so it said nothing new for me but it does provide quite a good round up of the issues if it's a new subject for you.

NurseEzzzaChapel · 14/04/2013 08:45

Weigh day today. Down 1.8lbs this fortnight, 23.2lbs down in total sincethe beginning of September. Smile

BetsyVanBell · 14/04/2013 08:46

saf Great! I also need to avoid fruity yogurts I think, they're often my go-to when I want a 'healthy' sugar kick but I need to go cold turkey - shall we all aim for 2 weeks and see how we get on? aka?

akarucker · 14/04/2013 08:49

betsy yes and no! Of course I want the addiction gone, but I seriously feel like an alcoholic at the thought of giving it up! Yikes! I will watch that link you posted, thank you. I think giving it up is going to be my only way to crack this though. I manage very well on 2000 cals of normal food - it's plenty! It's that feeling of the sugar taste is missing that gets me! So far ADF has enabled me to get that, and still lose weight, but I can see now that this is not a long term way forward.

So, yes, is my answer....I would love to kick it and do it alongside you!!!!

NurseEzzzaChapel · 14/04/2013 08:53

Correction, 25lbs lost since beginning of September! Grin

BetsyVanBell · 14/04/2013 08:53

saf aka Smile Let's do this!

Anyone else up for the 2 weeks of no sugar challenge?!?!

BetsyVanBell · 14/04/2013 08:56

Oh and I end up doing this sugar cold-turkey thing once a year so it's not a permanent solution but it helps and it gets my brain to remember than it prefers life without the stupid cravings! Probably usually Easter actually...

Dotty342kids · 14/04/2013 09:28

Oh gosh, I so recognise what you're saying about the sugar hit. I'm a big fan of cakes and chocolates and as I don't drink much or smoke I figure I'm allowed one vice!
What I'd say to anyone who finds cutting it out completely a frightening prospect is to reduce what you have available to you. If you know that if you buy a family size bar of Dairy Milk or a "share" bag of buttons and you WILL eat them all then just don't buy them! Buy the next size down bag / bar of whatever it is. Once that becomes your "normal" then cut down again to the next size bag / bar (that might be the "treat/fun" size" ones).
Don't fool yourself that it's cheaper to buy the big bars and make them last - if you know you'll trough it all in one go (like me!) then you have to be brutally honest with youself about it!
Good luck all!

MostlyFine · 14/04/2013 09:29

well done ezza! you must be feeling great Smile

ELR · 14/04/2013 09:36

I will join you as an experiment, I don't think I eat a great deal of added sugar but it will be interesting to see if I'm right and how it affects my weight.
So what are we saying no to exactly?
Chocolate, sweets, cakes, biscuits, fruit yogurt, ice cream. Anything else?
What about fruit juice I take an iron supplement which needs to be diluted in water with orange/apple juice is this ok?

Convert · 14/04/2013 09:54

Hi, would it be ok if I joined the thread? I have been low carbing for a few weeks and have lost 6 lbs but I keep slipping up and then I feel really crap about myself, so I comfort eat etc etc!

I had a lurk on the thread yesterday and did my first fast day. Surprisingly easy actually. I think I might try 4:3 as I need to get the weight off quite quickly. I am 11st and I would like to be 9st 6.

swallowedAfly · 14/04/2013 09:55

bvb - presumably this includes alcohol?

swallowedAfly · 14/04/2013 09:55

fruit juice is not good ELR but if you must go for orange rather than apple - apple has really high free fructose content