5:2 Diet Thread! Number 15! Our quinceañera!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Point to ponder
Constipation after fasting is almost certainly due to dehydration.
At the end of a fast day, what colour is your urine on this chart?
www.footballbarnsley.co.uk/fitness/images/pee_test_lg.jpg
because a good proportion of normal food is water, so if you are not eating you are not getting fluid and you need to replace it.
A couple of pints of water a day on a fast day as well as lashings of tea.
should help

NeverKnowinglyUnderstood, I don't have a solution but if it makes you feel any better I had a similar issue when I first started 6 months ago. After a while (I can't quite remember how long) my digestive system adjusted and everything went back to normal, even the day after a fast.

inneedofaname yoy need to stop thinking of a day as being 24 hours and start thinking of a calendar day then it all becomes simple. So on Monday I will only have 500 cals, on Tuesday I will eat normally etc. This way each day I fast I will save 1500 cals so fasting 2days / week will save me 3000 cals which is almost 1lb in weight.

If I could eat 500 cals between now and tomorrow dinner, then eat a normal meal I could easily touch 2000 cals for the day, so no calorie defict = no weight loss.

Whoop, I made it to 22 hours on my first fast. Had dinner yesterday at 8.30 pm, and then next ate at 6.30 pm today. I've just eaten a massive chicken salad (all weighed and measured) for 440 calories leaving me enough for some sugar free jelly.

Hopefully I've done that right?

Up thread people were mentioning mini fasts. What are they/how do they work please?

hotpanda, mini fasts for me are a day like tomorrow. Mondays are normally a proper fast day, but tomorrow I'm going out in the evening with friends. So...... I'll treat it like a fast eg. not eat till tomorrow night BUT when I do eat, I won't restrict it to the usual 500 cals. That way hopefully get the health benefits of the fasting behaviour, but won't see as much of the potential weight loss benefits as I'm going over my allocated 500 cals.
Some weeks I aim to do two normal fasts, on others I may do two normal plus one "mini". Hope that helps to explain?
God, I need it after this weekend. Was doing lots of baking for a cake sale to raise money for Comic Relief and invariably had a few slices of cake / cupcakes left over. Not any more

ooh Nurse that does sound hopefull

Have been doing 500 cals from when I wake on monday morning to when I wake on tuesday morning tends to be coffee for breakfast soup for lunch then soup with some rice for dinner. I drink loads.

other days I have been eating normal 3 meals without concern for calorific values.

Looking forward to checking in with all the usual Monday fasters tomorrow

Wahey! Well done HP Sounds perfect - impressed you got to 22 hours on your first fast!

When I use the term 'mini fast' I mean that I do the time - somewhere between 16 and 20 hours of no calories - but then eat normally thereafter. Others may use the term differently though...

sorry dotty did not mean to crash the thread

not possible to crash these threads : they are an open sided tent for all 5:2 followers, try-outers and the curious!

neverknowinglyunderstood - you didn't crash the thread, it's fine

Hi, I've been doing this since end of Jan, along with training for a 5k race, and have lost almost a stone so far. It's really slowed down over last couple of weeks, anyone found the same? Or got any ideas to kick start weight loss again?
Having read through this thread it seems so much more complicated than I understood from reading the fast diet book. I count it as 500 cals on a calendar day. I have porridge for breakfast 8.30ish then don't eat again til supper 8ish. Is this what others do?

Giraffe - yes, seems more complicated than I thought. I thought it was as simple as keeping my calories under 500 for a 24 hour period. Starting to think that it might not be the solution for me

so giraffe.. are you having the porridge and the supper on the same day?
so you are not eating for 12 hours?

Neverknowing yes both same day, but i keep strictly to 500 kcals from morning til next morning. I'm not a snacker in the evening so realistically goes from after supper the night before I.e. 8 ish tonight til Tues am. And yes, not eating at all for periods of circa 12 hrs. Is that right?

Appelmoes: No, you are not the only non-mum posting here. Me too. Nothing to do with 5:2, but I have always maintained that great aunties are VIPs too!

The idea is just to eat your reduced calories between rising in the morn - when you've been fasting all night, to going to bed that night - when you'll fast again while you sleep.

That's what Dr M does with his 300 calorie brekkie and 300 calorie dinner. And that's what I do when I fast all day and eat my 600 calories in the evening. Others have 3 small meals through the day.

Do that twice a week.

That's it, folks! Dead simple!

www.notahomer.co.uk/2013/03/15/s01se01-special-episode-body-image/

An interesting body fat image link from the fast diet website.

Had lunch at Wagamama today. I think I'm ready for my fast day tomorrow.

We went to John Lewis today. I caught a surprise look at myself from behind in the mirror section, and I wasn't horrified. That was a nice feeling.

Sorry I'm not posting as often as I might usually, but my mum is in town for another week and we're getting stuff sorted in the new house. :) Good to see so many new people posting.

Hi giraffe and inneedof - you have the basics rights- carry on doing that - don't worry about complicating it.

Some people are trying to maximise the health benefits by having an ectnded period without any calories - others are arguing over what exactly is a 'day' .

If you have 2 days a week when you only eat 500 cals between getting up and going to bed then you are doing fine. After a while you may tweak it yourself as you find what works for you and do more reading.

I've just hit a new low of 9st2lb - 30lb lost since starting

ok i ate yesterday at 11am and then nothing till 6am when had breakfast that was 85 calories and will eat 400 calories or so mid afternoon then nothing till tuesday does that count as a fast day

morning all. well weight is up 1lb after a weekend of eating - just a bounce really and that was pre poo (tmi as ever)

fast day today and hoping it will take me to a new low. really pleased with the lack of bouncing over the last week. munched on crisps and a bit of chocolate last night - surprised myself by only eating half a normal size bar

i am expecting to see 10 something this week - everything crossed my body doesn't play weird games on me.

good luck to all the monday fasters

Should that read 11 pm? If it is really 11am then that makes for a really long fast. If it is 11pm then you've got it sorted.

Yet again people seem to be complicating things. I'm reposting a great post for Ezzza back on thread 13 as its a fantastic overview of just how SIMPLE this WOE is.

So take her advice and dont complicate it

So over to Ezza with Thanks ---
--
Reading through some of the posts from the new starters, I think many people are finding it hard to believe how staggeringly simple the ?rules? for this WoE are. Simply put, the ?rules? are:

On fast days eat no more than 500 kcal (600 for men). On non-fast days eat normally.

That really is it as far as rules go, and if your main objective for doing this is weight loss then whatever you eat, whenever you eat, if you?re following those two simple rules then you?re doing it correctly. Everything else that we discuss on these threads are tips which help us and research which has been done for the health benefits that also come with this WoE. If you find it too difficult to go down to 500 kcal on fast days straight away, there is no harm in starting out with a slightly higher allowance on fast days and easing your way down to the 500 kcal.

One of the things some people struggle with is what it means to eat ?normally? on non-fast days. Simply put, this is roughly the amount of food your body needs to stay the same weight, so not a diet portion and not a binge either.

When I started this WoE I wasn?t actually planning on using it to lose weight (I was highly sceptical and didn?t think it?d work but I?m always willing to give things a fair shot). I was just intending to use it to keep my weight under control while I was away studying in China for six months because I knew I loved the food out here and I wanted to be able to fit into the seat on the aeroplane when I flew home. grin So I didn?t restrict my eating on non-fast days at all because for me the whole point was to be able to eat all the yummy Chinese food I wanted and stay the same weight. But after 4 weeks I noticed my clothes were much looser so I went out and bought a cheap set of scales. I did start out on ADF though (because I hadn?t heard about 5:2 then) so it would have been pretty hard for me to eat so much on normal days that it would undo the fast days. After a week or so I also noticed my appetite got reset and I simply didn?t want to stuff myself silly anymore.

Others have a different experience to me. Some come from years of calorie restriction diets, so the eating normally on non-fast days seems a lot of food to be eating while trying to lose weight. Others have spent years overeating by quite a lot and find it a challenge to only eat a normal amount for their bodies. For both these groups of people it can be really helpful to work out your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE ? there?s a link to a calculator in the OP) and then use MyFitnessPal (MFP) or some other method to track your calorie intake on normal eating days. You don?t have to do this for the rest of your life, just a few weeks of doing this can help you get a good idea how much food is the right amount and then you can stop calorie counting on your normal eating days and just relax into it. It?s also perfectly ok to average out your calories over your normal eating days, so if you?ve got an event coming up one day and you know you?ll be eating loads there?s nothing wrong with having a little less on your other normal eating days ? just so long as your normal eating days average out at roughly your TDEE. I?m told MFP?s weekly tab is great for this. Another option for those doing 5:2 if you have a calorie laden few days coming up is to throw in an extra fast day if you can and if you?re feeling up to it.

Another thing people are curious about is the 16 hour and 24 hour fasting periods that get mentioned a lot on these threads. These are done for two reasons: 1) because many of us find that the later we start eating on a fast day the easier it is to get through the day successfully and 2) because one of the principles behind the health benefits that go along with this WoE is that giving your digestive system a complete break from digesting food helps the body go from grow mode to repair mode. Repair mode is where the health benefits come in. How long is optimum to fast? The short answer is we don?t quite know but studies seem to suggest a 16 hour fasting window will bring health benefits and that possibly more benefits come from longer periods of fasting such as 24 hours. Some on this thread achieve this by not eating from after dinner the day before a fast until either lunch time (for 16 hours) or dinner time (for 24 hours) on a fast day. This is not compulsory though. I had breakfast lunch and dinner for the first 4 months on this WoE, and I now usually have lunch and dinner, just occasionally doing the 24 hour proper fasting period.

A wise man once wrote: ?He who walks with the wise grows wise?. This is certainly true with these threads. There is a wealth of information and research as well as personal experiences on these threads. If you don?t have time to read through all 13 of these main threads (who does?) I really recommend the links and tips thread (linked to in the OP). You?ll also see some other tips about what kind of foods to avoid on fast days etc. such as avoiding processed foods and really carby stuff like pasta or avoiding diet fizzy drinks. These tips are here to help us stick to the fast days and to benefit our health but they are not rules, so if you really like your fizzy pop then you can still have it. There are no banned foods on this WoE. When I started this WoE I had a two litre per day diet coke habit. Reading these threads and the links to health risks associated with aspartame (particularly the association with depression, which is a risk factor for me) I?ve now cut back to around a litre or two per week. All of us on here are experimenting with this and finding what works best for us and then sharing our experiences.

Ok, I feel dreadful.
went to bed about 9,0 last night after my first fast - partly because I was tired and partly to avoid eating anymore.

I woke up about half midnight shivering and feeling really rough. I couldn't get warm despite putting on layers and snuggling up to Husband.
In a weird state of half awake/alseep with dreams for a few hours before waking up boiling. My ribs hurt as if I had done a lot of lifting yesterday (which I hadnt).
Have now been up since 4 as couldn't get comfortable. Head is banging

I've been forcing water down in case I am dehydrated, but has anyone else had this, or am I just coincidentally coming down with something?