5:2 Diet Thread! 13! Now, the baker's dozen!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

dines I saw your "breaking my fast" post earlier and bit my tongue I knew I, personally, wouldn't be able to eat a soup + bread + cheese meal in the morning on a fast day, but thought I'd wait to see how it worked for you.

So, evidently it hasn't worked out well. Just accept today for what it is, you can't undo what's been done.

On your next fast day, really try to put off eating as long as you can. Yes, Michael Mosley and some others are able to eat a small breakfast as well as a small dinner, but many of us on these threads find it much easier to just put off eating as long as possible on a fast day. Eating early on just sparks the appetite and makes you inclined to eat more over the course of the day. Stick to hot drinks and keep yourself busy.

It's tough the first few times, but becomes much easier. In the long run, it will help you to realise just how much food you're putting in your mouth on regular eating days.

Thanks for all your messages
Im at work today so no chance of an afternoon nap but the doctor has just prescribed something for me to take tonight to calm my nerves and hopefully get me to sleep - i hope!

I havent eaten yet today saving all my kcal to feel safisfied with food later

Not sure on what to have yet - either a turkey stir fry or some beef and vegtable big soup

decisions/decisions

Dines - dont be too hard on yourself - next fast day just drink more and more water especailly if you THINK your hungry

youll be okay x

Daisy poor you. That's an awful thing to happen. Hope it all gets sorted out soon.

dines you've gone 19 hours before breaking your fast which is fantastic for a first timer so give yourself a big pat on the back . If you've already gone over your 500 cals now, can you hold out until tomorrow's breakfast without food? If not, don't worry. I would try and eat a little bit at dinner only eg not more than another couple hundred calories. Next time you'll do better. Remember, it's all about the baby steps. You'll soon find yourself able to last longer.

Well, I'm in the middle of my 9th 24 hour fast. Have been to the gym, am now working. Going fine so far on mug after mug of herbal tea and glass after glass of H2O . DH is fasting today too (he's at work) so we'll both break our fast tonight with a light chickpea and spinach broth plus a bit of sourdough bread.

Brauron
The thing about snacking is that if you are adding food to your system every hour, your digestion never gets a chance to 'finish a batch' - so it is generally healthier to eat rounded meals a couple of times a day, fully digesting them in between.
That and the majority of 'snack' foods are junk that is best avoided anyway (sugar, salt, weird chemicals, hidden fats)

dines I agree with all the helpful comments from the others - they know what they're talking about.
When I read that you'd had your last meal the day before your fast at 4.00pm I thought "uh oh" as that is rather early to stop eating and makes the next day very hard.
You haven't failed you've just done a variation of this woe.
If I were you I'd eat normally the day before your next fast, but have dinner about 6 or 7pm if possible, then have nothing the next morning but non calorie drinks, then try really hard to keep as many of your 500 calories as you can for your evening meal. If you desperately need to eat before then (after drinking more and keeping very very busy) have as greeneggs suggested, protein not carbs. Many of us have found that carbs on fast days make you hungrier but we also think that there is a hunger 'switch' which turns on once you eat something and then you find it hard to stop. I wonder if that happened to you when you ate your first meal?
Also do not worry if you can't stick to the 500 at first, many have started a bit higher and then reduced it as the fasts became easier.
Try again and soon it will be so easy you will be smiling like us

dines oh forgot to say that I'd just have a normal (healthy) dinner tonight.

Hi there, new to this, and looking with interest. But I don't really have the time or the energy for all this constant calorie counting. I thought this diet wasn't about that? I also don't want to be cooking yet another different meal of an evening. I already have to cater for 1 toddler, 1 fussy teenager, and 1 random DH. So would this work if on my fast days I simply ate my usual breakfast of porridge (Oat so simple) with bluberries, a ham sandwich for lunch, and skipped dinner altogether? Does that sound reasonable? Thanks

dines if it helps, before a fast I have my last meal between 8 and 9pm. Yes, it means I can't eat again until that time the nexy day (I am a 24-hour faster) but I find the late calories the night before enables me to last longer the next day.

Additionally, a lot of posters here hae found that eating early in the day (morning time) trips their hunger switch. The later you can go without food, the easier you may find it.

Hi, I would like to join, I am a low carber but have been struggling on strict low carb and bought the 5:2 book out of curiosity. I like the idea very much and plan to do 5:2 and then try to stick to relatively low carbing on the non-fast days. Do people think that would be ok? (Basically trying to keep off the white starches most of the time). I have checked my TDEE and it is rather low (1600) so I can't go too mad even on my "feast days", can I?

PS I never eat breakfast and often don't have lunch so this WOE would seem to be a good plan for me!

Daisy
Take care, its horrible being broken into. Hope you get some sleep today.

dines
Remember that over the last 24 hours you have eaten a lot less than you would usually do so now you know you can do this WOE.

For info - my routine is
Start fast about 9-10pm i.e. no more calories in any form after this time
Break fast around 2-3pm - today a big pot of homemade veg and bean soup and one slice of bread (around 300 cals)
Snack around 8pm e.g. rice cakes and marmite plus a decaf soya latte
Breakfast at 7-8am the next morning

People have worked out various patterns that suit them and you will do the same as you try out this WOE.

I haven't lost weight as quickly as some but weight loss wasn't the primary reason I was doing this so I haven't focussed so much on that aspect. However, I am losing weight slowly but surely and the 4 months or so that I have been following this WOE have been my longest sustained weight loss /weight maintenence in years and also by far and away the easiest.

knockmedown, that sounds ok yes, as long as what you are eating (the oatso breakfast and ham sandwich) don't come to over 500 cals. To be honest, I'd be surprised if they did come in under but you never know

Knockmedown
There is no need at all for the calorie counting on non fast days
BUT
for people who are overweight, it is often quite a shock to discover how little the "right" amount of food for them is.
Michael Moseley was never very overweight in the first place and his family already ate well because of his GP wife.
For those who have always had a sideways relationship with food, tracking is useful.

if you are a skip dinner person then you should be fine - I'll be surprised if porrige, fruit and a ham sandwich comes in at under 500 calories though ....

Dudes
Lots of people are combining 5:2 with other diets - for the health benefits of fasting if nothing else.
And they are not "feast days" they are "normal" days.

knockmedown, just went and checked those things on MFP (My Fitness Pal) and sounds as though they might come in at under 500 cals so you'd be fine with that! You'd then go a good 16-17hrs till breakfast the next day which would be your fasting period. So yes, if that's what works for you then go for it I say!

Hey y?all,

On my second fasting day today (first one was on Thursday). I found the first day hard while at work because that?s where I?ve got in to habitual biscuit and cake eating but really enjoyed my evening meal and the feeling of not being stuffed. I have to admit though what I?ve found most remarkable is the way my appetite has transformed overnight! I hardly felt hungry at all on Friday and that feeling pretty much stayed with me across the weekend. For someone who has previously spent a lot of time feeling hungry on diets this feels like a revelation! Has anyone else had a similar experience? I still overate on the weekend despite a diminished appetite so I?ve obviously got some way to go in adapting to this WOE but at least I?m starting to recognise my bad eating habits so I can break them!

I also had a question - I had my last calories last night at about 9pm and just ate my lunch at 1pm does that count as a 16 hour fast?

Daisy ? poor you! Chin up and well done for keeping it up - my head would have been buried in a tin of biscuits by now like Winnie the Pooh!

Reallyuseful ? I?m planning weekly weigh ins and waist and hip measurements but as this is my first week I?m giving it about 10 days.

(p.s I was nonmummyyet but I realised my name made no sense!)

I am another one who advocates not eating for as long as poss on a fast day. Once that "hunger switch" is triggered, then i find images of food dancing along just above my head like some 70's cartoon shouting "coo-eee" (for those of us in our prime lol). :) Strangley enough on a feed day, food doesnt have the same beguiling ways....
It works though and thats the simple beauty of this WOE.

Beaniac I did first fast on thurs, second today & I had exactly the same experience, infact I felt quite miffed that I had no appetite for my planned roast chicken on Fri! I was looking forward to a festive family meal with a glass of guilt free wine but had a very abstenious eve instead! I am a daily weigher & was fully expecting to see an increase on the scales over the w/e but have continued to slowly drop, fantastic!
Am once again planning my feed days menu for tomorrow, mango & chicken salad then pork saltimbocca w garliccy mash (apologies fellow fasters!!)

beaniac
Yes that is a 16 hr fast. Many of us then take it that we have 500 cals until breakfast the next day.

Ok so I've added up and I've had 800 cals now and its my fast day can I still class this as a fast day? Not gonna eat anything till tomorrow.

What should I do for eating tomorrow as I have had more then 500 cals today.

just have today as your 'first attempt' and call it a fast day dines. next time count what you're having and don't have more than 500. eat normally tomorrow i'd say.

i'm on a fast day and feeling a bit hungry but don't want to eat yet.

think i'm just going to cook a mountain of veg and have the low fat mushroom soup i favour with it. no protein but should be ok. going to aim to get to at least 6pm. so far today i have had two drinks with milk in which is less than usual. AND i managed to drink a black coffee for the first time ever so there's hope for me yet that i can cut out the milk in the day totally.

meant to say daisy so sorry about your break-in and all the stress. hope the prescription helps and you get a decent nights sleep tonight.

Thanks everyone for the support.. really helpful

ooh i have proper belly rumbles going on!

Will Defo have my dinner the nyt before much later, goin to have next fast day on Wednesday. Hoping that will help.

I've just prepped my meal so that when I finish work at 5.30 (work from home) I can cook immediately!
Got salmon marinating in a chilli / ginger oil which I'm having with stir fried spring greens, broccoli, leeks and peas. Soooo looking forward to it as got through to this point with no food and just had half a glass of diet coke to distract me and take the edge off till teatime. 1hr 30 and counting!!
Well done to all fellow Monday fasters btw.... nearly there.