5:2 Diet Thread! 13! Now, the baker's dozen!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

[Aftereightsarenolongermine]

country yes it's a shock isn't it. I remember thinking it must be my metabolism, until I started logging food into mfp & discovered that on most days I was eating way over 3000 calories. Metabolism yeah right! More like downright greed :o

[countryhousehotel]

Talkinpeace you are so right about the snacking. I've been fixated on it for years, having been told by a nutritionist that you should eat regularly to avoid blood sugar crashes and then bingeing. It's totally unnecessary most of the time, it's almost an eating "occasion" that's been created by the marketing people to get us to eat/buy more! I'm sure it's appropriate for some people some of the time, but I feel like I convinced myself I needed to snack 2x a day. I'm really finding it amazing now to get back in touch with hunger (I know I sound like a hippy but it's true :)) and to wait for meal times. I was soooo hungry for my roast chicken and roasted root veggies last night (it wasn't a fast day) and I couldn't remember the last time I felt that anticipation....perhaps when I was a child or a student.

[countryhousehotel]

Aftereightsarenolongermine haha same here! I kept going in to MFP and adding things and taking them away again or halving the portion size....a medium/large baked potato has nearly 400 cals, who knew??? Plus the deck of card sized slab of butter I would have slathered on it....together with half a bottle of red wine. Last night I had 600 cals left by the evening, so I had a glass of red wine with my dinner. I could have had the baked pot and butter too, but I decided to have one not the other. Yes you are right about the greed.....I didn't realise how much I was shoveling in...and I think I know about healthy eating!!!!!

[Aftereightsarenolongermine]

I think it's definitely true country that this WOE gives you back control. You could have had both last night & before would have done but now think do I really really want it? Is it worth all those calories? Have to say sometimes the answer is no.

[countryhousehotel]

Absolutely . It's definitely the self-regulation button that somehow got switched off when I was pregnant the 2nd time. I've been remembering how I ate before (3+ years ago when I was slimmer), and I would have naturally balanced my day like that without thinking about it (subconsciously anyway). I was 10 stone when I got pregnant with DD (she's 6 now) and 10 stone about a week after she was born. So I must have been good at doing it then, I'll just have to relearn it now, and I certainly wasn't "on a diet" then.

[Wishihadabs]

So true. Adults don't need to snack. I think becoming a mother made me start carrying food around as a sort of talisman-completely unnecessary. I am not pregnant or breast feeding I do not need to eat every 3or 4 hours, my ancestors certainly wouldn't have.

[ErikNorseman]

Waaaaah I don't know what's going on with my weight! I'm usually very zen about fluctuations but seriously! I weighed in at 11.13 last week as I expected, then again at 12.1, I assumed because I was just about to start my period. I've had 2 fast days since then, just weighed again and I'm 12.3! Wtf? That's basically 4lbs higher than I should be. Why is my weight going up??? I know I don't restrict myself on eating days but I fast 3 days a week and only expect to see 1lb a week drop, so I can't be actually gaining weight. Especially not 4lb in a week. But it's very annoying

[pinklady1107]

Hi everyone

Can I join you? I'm going to do my first fast today, I've read through on here and have had a good book to read.

I've eaten cereal, got plain salad and a 10 cal jelly for lunch and that'll leave me 250 cals for cereal tonight. I love cereal so easy do able I hope!

Have a stone and a half to loose so fingers crossed xx

[Aftereightsarenolongermine]

erik are you weighing yourself at the same time, in the same clothes, scales in the same position? I find any deviation from the above can make a real difference. Don't worry about fluctuating I fluctuate all the time!

[countryhousehotel]

Eriknorseman seriously you need to wait 4 - 6 weeks to start seeing a downward trend on the scales, I know my weight can fluctuate a few pounds in a day or overnight. Always has done. Daily weighing or more than once a week is not a great idea, being hung up on every pound up or down will drive you insane and probably be demotivating. You're not a WW or SW ;)

[countryhousehotel]

"at" that should be!

[swallowedAfly]

erik - you are having exactly what i had last week and beginning of this one and last week i did 3 fasts too and was expecting more loss but didn't get it. what i can tell you is that this week it's been much easier to lose. i was still at 11.9.2 on monday morning and by tuesday i was 11.6.8 and i got on the scales this morning after an eat day fully expecting to see it gone back up and it had held steady at 11.6.8.

so don't despair - it may be that you, like me, see it a week later. don't ask me the logic but that's how it's worked for me.

fast day again today. yesterday i walked 11km - i'm not doing any workouts or added exercise i'm just walking everywhere and making an effort to not only do the long walks to work and back but also to make sure i never sit at my desk long. a couple of times yesterday i just got up and walked loops around the college to get moving, warm myself up and keep my metabolism ticking over. naturally on a work day i was walking about 8km and by adding in little laps and making more trips on foot rather than emailing requests i added another 3 yesterday. i think my tip would be keep moving - doesn't have to be dramatic exercise but i think there's something to be said for never sitting still too long and going into sleepy mode.

[artemis17]

Morning all. I def have smaller portions now. I have been doing this a month and its had a huge impact, not re weight loss so much as understanding what food i actually eat/need/enjoy, and no longer cram my plate full. I can stop when theres food left on my plate, which is a new sensation, as a child was always expected to clear my plate "for the starving in Africa"...
i do love food but luckily dont have much to lose so think this WOE has really changed my eating habits. Fast day today and sticking to mostly licquorice tea til this pm.

[swallowedAfly]

i'm still waiting for my period too, as are you, so that should help too as you may be retaining water and bowel content pre menstrually.

[ErikNorseman]

I weigh every Thursday, after fasting, naked, first thing. I e been doing this for 3 months and this is the first time my weight has plateaued. I have had my period now :(
Ok I suspect I'm plateauing because I overeat on eating days. I still have a tendency to binge and I'm very lazy. I need to be more careful on eating days and build some exercise back in. I'm not socialising this weekend so I'm going to get out for a long walk or do the shred at home if it's raining, plus batch cook some lovely but healthy food so if I overeat it will be good stuff rather than bread or cake. I'm not downhearted anymore :)

[greenfig]

Erik I feel for you so frustrating. Try not to use it as an excuse to go off the rails or then you won't be able to tell whether it's working for you or not. Personally I have found that my body has done this in stages of my weightloss. I don't know the science of it but it really does seem that my body held on, went up then would suddenly lose again. Fingers xed your loss comes soon
artemis I feel I hold onto a lot of habits instilled years ago. Being a 'good girl' for clearing a plate of seconds that I didn't need and the whole not wasting anything/leaving food being rude. It takes time to learn to listen to your body & recognise hunger doesn't it?
saf I try to keep moving too. Have read lots recently about studies proving that this is what our metabolism needs. The sofa & tv has done a lot of damage to us all!
I am on a fast day today & not doing so good-already! I slept really badly, prob too full/alcohol and Jillian Michaels making my bum sore As I had soup quite late last night have AGES until 16 hrs but already hungry/uncomfortable as I've been awake for hrs Have caved and had tea w milk. If I don't feel better soon I may try to settle my tum w some scrambled eggs. On the bright side I am determined to stick to a fast today as I want a naice dinner with dh tomorrow! Makes me a bit more disciplined. Good luck to all todays fasters

[greenfig]

x post Erik sounds like a good plan

[Minimammoth]

I am away from home this week and am finding it hard to stick to calories and food type. Not been able to log anything, so it will be a surprise when I get on the scales at home.

[swallowedAfly]

seriously though erik you are describing where i was at until it magically just shifted again - and the exact timing too of doing 3 fasts rather than 2. the next week it is shifting again. don't panic yet. see how it goes over the next couple of fasts.

[ErikNorseman]

Thanks everyone. I won't let it derail me, in determined to lose this weight. I realised that since DS was born I have reached 12st 3 times then put almost a stone back on. I am sick of being this size so I'm determined. I usually lose interest in diets after 3 months, just enough time to see a loss and get complacent. That won't happen now because I don't feel like I've been dieting. I just need to tweak things a bit!

[BetsyVanBell]

Saf That's really brilliant info - I love that just adding some additional walking around work has added 3k to your day. I walk or cycle everywhere and actively create errands for myself to get myself out on my bike. I think it's made a difference to my weightloss and overall fitness & sense of wellbeing. Just being active on a daily basis (and getting out in the fresh air, even if it's freezing) is far better than driving to the gym 3 times a week. I do chuck in some more organised types of fitness too but these tend to be dropped easily if life gets in the way, whereas I have to do the other stuff as it's part of my daily routine.

Did you see the other Michael Mosely Horizon special on fitness a few months ago? One of the experts on there advocated exactly what you're doing :)

ErikNorseman Glad it's not getting you down - it sounds like you've got plans to make some positive changes. Something that helped me was that initially I found it really hard to eat much the day after fasting - I think I've got over this now but I've managed to keep that day a lower carb day. I love that I eat really healthily on fast days so try and make that next day equally healthy but more of it! Making sure that when I nibble it's nuts and dried fruit rather than crumpets and cheese. This seems to have saved me from weight gain as on the 2nd day after a fast I want to eat all the carbs! (Which is what happened yesterday...). Scales are good this morning (possibly aided by the hour or so cycling I did too), surprisingly so.

I would love to be like TiP and avoid snacking, but I'm not there yet. It is now limited to one particular time of day - when I'm in the kitchen cleaning lunch boxes and prepping the evening meal. I'm working on it though...

Oops, apologies, this turned into a much longer post than I was expecting! Good luck today fasters, I'm one of them and battling a seriously awful night's sleep - if I wasn't fasting I'd be wanting to eat everything today to try and make up for it. I have bumped off my planned exercise though :(.

[Dotty342kids]

headintheclouds great to hear back from you! YOur weight loss is pretty much identical to mine, and from what I remember we were similar starting weights too so it's good to check in and see what each other's up to!
4-5weeks in (can't quite remember!) and I'm 4-5lbs down so am pleased with that. Also put some trousers on today that were def a bit too tight before and they feel comfortable now so that's a great incentive too. I'd like all my "bottoms" to get to on the slightly loose side!
Fasting today too, planning a banana at about 2.30 and then a dinner of Moroccan fish and brown rice. Yum!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

Okay everyone I'm away until later in the afternoon, so I've gone ahead and started a new thread here.

This thread currently has about 25 posts left before it ends, hence my starting the new one now so we have all our links in one spot. So, keep talking here if you wish, but keep in mind that the thread maxes out at 1000 posts.

New thread here!

[swallowedAfly]

yay bvb ! i'm doing something right

i don't do formal exercise for weight loss because i know that for me personally it's not sustainable. i'm a single mum with very little time to myself and i work. there is no time slot where i could go running, go to the gym or go to classes. there's not really even a time slot where i could do an exercise dvd. if i artifically juggled my whole life to breaking point to fit these things in a) it would be breaking point (only 24hrs in a day) and b) i'd end up quitting.

anything i do needs to fit in my life and be sustainable. so the one thing i've done is never own a car and though the idea of a little moped keeps appealing in order to save a bit of time i stop myself because walking everywhere and doing that all of your life is actually hugely healthy and immensely good for your mental health imo.

haven't eaten yet and have been hulking furniture around and attacking the uncovered 'bleurgh' with the hoover. need to walk to the post office in a bit then home and more housework before school run.

stick with it everyone

[PassTheSherry]

Hi everyone! Gosh this thread moves fast - I posted a little 'hello' less than a week ago and meant to say thanks for the welcome, been busy a couple of days and now I've lost track from when I last posted as it's moved on so much! Anyway - thank you for the welcome, and the helpful posts for newcomers.

Quick update - had first ever fast day last Saturday and it went OK - the fasting was hard, but doable - however, I had the worst night's sleep in quite a long time that night, couldn't drop off until well after 4am, and tired all next day. Second day of fasting went a lot better, as I deliberately chose a busy day, with lots to do to keep my mind off food. I also bought in two ready meals and saved myself the hassle of cooking and totting up calories of every ingredient etc. Lots of water and vegetable bouillon. The total calories came to more than 500 - but as I was out and about, on my feet for a lot - and walking around I took that into account. MyFitnessPal app is my new best friend.

Heh talking of which - today is a non-fast day, and I went for a full english breakfast, coffee - used the app to see how much of my daily calories I've eaten, and to my horror it's already up to 1800!!! I had no idea it would be that much.

So, now I'm thinking - shall I just count today as a blip and eat more sensibly for the rest of the day, and spend tomorrow on 430-500cals fasting - or shall I start fasting now, stick to