5:2 Diet Thread! Perfect number 10!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day. (This is a new calculator to previous threads, this one seems to give me approximately the same results the last one did, but without the virus warnings on my browser!)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Hi there, I've been lurking for a few days and have been inspired to do my first fast. Went really well today. Feel really clear headed and not hungry, but empty in a good way.

Here's my question though...I've been low carbing for nearly a year and like this way of eating, however I'm starting to cheat a lot. I think fasting will re focus me, but I would like to follow a low carb plan on my feeding days. Is this flying in the face of the overall low calorie ethos of the 5:2 plan?

Is anyone else l/cing on this plan?

mrsfillyjonk (great name!) yes that's the idea, but do take it easy for the first week or so as it takes time to get into it. DR M eats 2 meals a day and so have I all the time i've done this WOE (way of eating) . though lots of people have only one.. but i've lost 21lbs on this so far by having 2 .

I have breakfast (usually 2 eggs a slice of thin ham and some tomato or mushroom) and then a big veggie stir fry with a handful of prawns or chicken at about 5/6pm.. then nothing until breakfast the next day . You can try to wait until tomorrow evening if you want.. but that's what i do and its worked fine..

I'd definitely ease yourself into it if i were you..its not supposed to be a torture diet , and IS supposed to be something you can incorporate into your life for eve r..

REMEMBER drink lots of water (tea or black coffee fine, if you have milk count the calories) .. usually you'd take in lotsof fluid in your food and you could find you get dehydrated if you dont drink more

good luck!! you'll find its easy after the first week.. Promise!.

enclcogirl.. yes pretty much.. i find it so much easier, but have found I can get away with having a few carbs on this WOE (like and the odd potato) without regaining.. However I haven't lost much for a while (although 21lbs overall since August) . but am well within normal BMI now..and so maybe at my correct weight for me..10st 5ft 6

MrsFilly a lot of us (most of us?) count the day as from after dinner on an eating day through until waking up the day after the fast. So, more like 36 hours rather than 24. So yes, you could do what you're suggesting: eat dinner tonight, fast through the day tomorrow, and eat 500 calories for dinner tomorrow night. Go to sleep, next day will be non-fast day.

(more realistically it might be a 400 calorie dinner as you'll probably have milk in tea etc throughout the day? It's up to you. Also, you don't need to not eat all day, but many of us find it easier to just save our calories and have a good meal at night so we aren't hungry at bedtime.

Now, some people do 24 hr fasts (I believe B&W does, for example) and he could explain that better than I could. He's also at or close to his ideal weight.

I won't say we're all doing this differently, because many of us have settled into our own routines and they're about the same as many others'. However, we do settle on what works for us, and it's very hard to tell someone else "okay, this is what will work for you." Just give it a go, and hopefully you'll figure out what works for you! :)

encyclo many of us low carb on our fast days, just because it's the best way to get value for our calories. However, I wouldn't think following LC on eating days would be a problem? With this, it seems to mostly be about the number of calories, not carbs. If you chose to LC, I can't see why it would be a problem. I know MM suggests more veg and protein etc, so LC is just taking that a step further, I'd think. I'm not a LC fan for other days myself (which is a testament to how important I think it is to LC on fast days!), but perhaps someone else will respond. :)

Hi MrsFillyjonk don't worry it is a bit confusing at the beginning but easy once you get going.

Basically you have 500 cals to eat tomorrow. Nothing after this evenings meal until breakfast tomorrow and then 500 cals until breakfast the following day. Everyone uses up their cals in different ways - some have small snacks all day, some three meals and others save all their cals for one meal. As far as I understand (the more experienced on this thread can correct me if I'm wrong!) it doesn't really matter how you distribute your cals if you are aiming to lose weight. However there is some evidence that the health benefits are increased if a fast of 16hrs or more takes place ie. you wouldn't eat anything until 12.30pm tomorrow. But a long fast can take some practice so may need to build up to it.

Hope that helps. Good luck!

As you can see mrsfillyjonk from the last few posts we all do it differently! they it out the way it suits you best .. Just have 500cals from now until Friday morning ..in whatever way you like,,

A good tip though .. think soup!! ..and strong flavours as they satisfy.. Im a great Chilli e sauce advocate..as everyone here knows

Miso soup is great ..it makes you feel like you have has a meal .. for only about 25 cals..

thank you so much for your advice its very kind of you, I get it now! you have totally inspired me and i cant wait to get started, will totally take on board your advice of taking it easy to begin with. these boards are great, thank you!

sorry about my rotten typos... Im painting my fingernails!and typing (badly) at the same time

I'm hoping that posting on here will get me back into line....me and DH have done alternate day fasting since start of Jan and I lost 9 lbs and he lost 10lbs. I absolutely love this way of eating. I don't want to diet, I can't stand daily calorie restriction and have always failed at diets. This is not a diet and that's why I love it.

However, we found ADF a bit too challenging so moved to 4:3 this week. I am feeling very low today. I was doing well with my fast today but work was shitty and stupidly I weighed myself this evening and had put on 2 lbs after fasting all day. So I had a chunk of cheese whilst grating it for the kids' baked potatos. Then 3 ryvitas. Then 2 glasses of wine. Then my dinner, beans on toast. I found myself searching the kitchen for quick snacks to eat so that no-one would notice. Aaarggh. I thought I'd kicked those demons. I reckon I've only had 1000 cals today but it's not a fast.

OK, so just writing that down has helped.

The positives: I have lost 9lbs. Today is just a blip. Am going to weigh weekly from now on.
Also, I was getting acid reflux before Xmas. That has disappeared completely.
I am enjoying eating again, appreciating food and renewing my love of cooking and baking.

Laska42 I am one of those newbies, but I've been reading previous threads and one thing grabs my attention every time: your menu. You make the most mouth-watering, delicious sounding food. Good job you live on an island or you might be surprised how many people turn up around dinner time.

Hi encyclogirl I have been trying to modify my diet on eating days to be mainly low carb, though I did eat ice cream at the weekend. I am trying to lower my insulin so have dropped flour products, rice, potatoes, and casual use of sugar or sweetener. I eat mainly some almonds for a snack, salad at lunch, and some sort of meat and veg combination in the evening. Still drink , though reds are not very carby actuallly.

My thought on your question is that you would count the calories either way, whatever makes up those calories. I am thinking the low carb on eating days is helping me on the fast days.

It seems that a lot of people don't really worry about their calories on the eating days. I have been doing adf and read a book on that subject by james johnson who wrote that he doesn't really concern himself with counting calories because you can't really feasibly make up the fasting day deficit. Contrary to what I expected, I don't eat everything in sight on eating days so I think he may have a point. Watching the overall total makes more sense on teh 5:2 so you don't undercut the good work of the 2 fasts.

Thank you Stickygingerbread, and everyone else, that makes sense. I'll track the calories for the first few weeks and see what I'm averaging.

youcan do it Goofymum - one day doesn't mean anything in the big picture!

Ive just started this (third fast day today) after reading Kate Harrisons book on Kindle. Ive a couple of queries.

I seem to be better going without food as long as possible. Ive been having a small lunch then something like a M&S Fuller Longer meal at dinner time. But as soon as Ive had lunch my stomach starts to growl and rumble, and I feel worse than I did before the meal.

Also, is herbal and fruit tea ok to drink between meals, or does it have a "food" value?

I havent had a chance to go back through the old threads, yet, so sorry if people have discussed this already!

Reasons for calorie recording on non fast days
If your BMI is over 27.5 (any version), something has gone wrong in your balance of calories in versus calories out.
Therefore I (and other stalwarts) would strongly recommend that you put all of your food into MyFitnessPal so that you know what your normal portions actually mean.
Once you know that, aim for staying at or around your TDEE on food days.

Personally I average across the week as I eat less during the week and more at the weekend.

Once you are settled into fasting, and starting to lose weight then MFP can be something to drop into mainly on fast days

Hi Encyclogirl I low carb and fast twice a week. I stay away from sugar, as I can't control my cravings - it's easier to just say no completely. I tend not to eat starchy foods, will have a handful of homemade chips with a steak...stay clear of pasta, bread and rice as much as I can. I don't restrict certain types of veg or count carbs...although I have been logging my food in January and it looks like I consume between 50-100g a day, I'm comfortable with that. I've never been fortunate enough to stop feeling hunger while in Ketosis, so even when my carbs are low I still get hungry. Experiment a bit, plug your weaknesses and then relax into it.

laska one of the positive things about fasting is that it forces dh and I to be alcohol free for 2 nights a week, even on the lead up to Christmas it still helped us to keep a lid on it.

goofy count it as an intermediate day - that's what I do, psychologically I find that easier to deal with than thinking that I've failed the fast day (not that you can fail). The beauty of this WOE is that if it doesn't work one day just try on another. There's no falling off the wagon so to speak. Hope that makes sense.

Well I came in at around 600 calories today so not a disaster especially as i snaffled some of dcs risotto & had 2 chunks of chocolate. Made it to 22&half hours today so not too bad considering. There's always next week.

For everyone just starting out, like me (am on week 3), I carry a bag of about 20-30 nuts in my handbag as a fallback if I really need something but don't want to give up the whole day. they really allay hunger pangs.

Hi all, thanks to whoever (maybe Laska?) who posted a link to this blog

ohsheglows.com/

The food looks super. I will definitely be trying out a good few of them.

I came across this one before christmas fatfreevegan.com/ and I made a nice pineapple cake for Christmas. I haven't used any of the savoury recepies yet but if they are low fat they might be suitable for fast days.

"Rather disappointing really, perhaps we needed 2 sessions: one for people new to the WOL and one for people who have been doing it for a few months as the two groups need to ask different questions.
Or maybe he just doesn't have anything more to say until there is new evidence."

That was my reaction, too, BCL. Or perhaps he's saving anything new for the next programme or book. After reading the chat thread (and following thefastdiet website), I felt that I was better off with the advice in this thread and with all the other reading I've done (and continue to do). There's a wealth of information out there from people who have been experimenting with various forms of IF for years. Some of the places included in the Tips thread (I'm thinking especially of GettingStronger and EatFastEat) have loads of discussion, and many of the comments allude to related topics and other sites that are worth exploring. (I'm sorry that I can't add to the links collection. I did a lot of the reading before I found this thread and didn't keep track of all the places I visited.)

B&W, I interpreted the 24-hour business the same as you. My reading is the same as BCL (I think that's who said it, can't remember for sure), that the longer the no-calorie fast, the greater the health benefits. For sure it lengthens the time the body spends in the repair mode. When skippy said, "The 600 kcal is only mentioned because the blogger who mailed him referred to it in his question, off the back of the horizon prog," my reaction was that Horizon was prepared on the back of the research of the likes of Mattson.

Also, as I recall, one of the researchers - Longo, I think it was - was fasting (meaning complete abstinence from calories) 3 or 4 days in a row every few months because, according to his work, that produced the greatest health benefits.

Thank you so much to everyone for explaining for me.

Hi, I am new here and just wanted to check in. I heard Michael Mosley on the Steve Wright show this afternoon, it really inspired me so me & DH are going to give it a go starting next week!

Any tips on timing meals? What time is it best to eat on fasting days? Are any snacks during the day absolutely forbidden? Following two pregnancies in a short space of time I am quite keen to lose about 10lb, a stone would be even better, but I'm wondering also how to sustain it so any weight loss doesn't creep back on...

Sorry for all the questions!

4th fast today. Didn't plan to, but as I said earlier, wasn't feeling great this morning so decided not to bother with food today. Far far far too busy with work to think about eating anyway.

Following up on TiPs advice, I did 28 hours the wrong way today, but it was fine:

Mon : fast, 400 cals for dinner
Tues morning: brown toast and marmite, black coffee
Tues lunch: falafel and salad with half a brown pita bread
Tues eve 7pm : still too full from lunch so half a portion barley soup
Weds morning: black tea
Weds lunch: black tea
Weds evening : go shopping for dd2's birthday presents....trudge around ToysRUs and local shopping centre. Carry lots of heavy bags to and from car....decide this counts as excercise
Weds 10pm: finally get home and have: Waitrose l/f spinach & ricotta canelloni (275), 100g lettuce (14cal) with portion Waitrose fresh salsa (34)and one square Lindt dark salt choc. Full and happy :)

I've been in a great mood for the last 2 fast days - dh can't work it out :) I even picked up his takeaway dinner on the way home, kept it warm and served it up without swiping a single chip or grumbling that I couldn't have any ....he couldn't believe it :) :)

Hi Goofymum, the scales thing could have been a blip. I only weigh myself in the morning as I drink a lot of water (which is heavy) and so an evening weigh-in would reflect maybe how much I had drank that day and not just what I actually weigh. If it was a fast day for you, you might have been drinking more water than usual? Or if you had something salty you might have been retaining a bit of water.

9 pounds weight-loss is great for such a short period of time, and even 7 pounds would still be excellent.

I am almost at my goal weight since I started this in August. But I had a small blip a few weeks ago where I seemed to go up a little in weight, in spite of not overeating on eating days, and fasting 2 days that week. I think the lower weight the previous week was probably showing a bit lower than it really was (if there can be such a thing).

Anyway because I felt like it, and had suitable food (pre-packed calorie counted stirfry mix) and out of stubborness I did 3 days fasting last week so the scales showed me as having gone down again after that.

I have heard other people say that they can stall for a bit, and sometimes go up and down a bit weight-wise, but once you are doing everything right it seems to correct itself in the end. If you stick with it for another few weeks you will probably find yourself with good weight-loss again, especially if you are doing 4:3.

I have my TOTM now so not weighing myself for a week as my weight goes all over the place that week.

stickygingerbread (great name!) - be careful....depending on what type of nuts they are, you could easily be eating several hundred calories in just 20 nuts!