5:2 Diet Thread! Number 9, welcoming the new year...

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day. (This is a new calculator to previous threads, this one seems to give me approximately the same results the last one did, but without the virus warnings on my browser!)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

B&W, yes mum

Should actually work out my exact TDEE been too lazy-

Thanks for the replies Frenchfancy and The Cyclistist, and others. Have just come back from a brief shopping trip and found something in the sale that will do - although not perfect! Was reluctant to buy anything full price as I do not intend needing to wear it again!! I think this evening out is the main problem - if that wasn't coming up I'd be happy just plodding along with this WOE, but as it's only a week ago I'm wishing a) I'd heard about this diet 6 months ago and b) I could miraculously be a size 10 just for a day!! I'm not particurly confident as these sort of events anyway - especially as this one is with DH's work - so the weight is just adding to my anxiety. Still at least it will be a feed day so can just have a few drinks and then won't care what anyone thinks!

Wow! Just worked out TDEE- not sure quite how accurate that one is as shows much greater difference than i'd seen before between little and moderate exercise. According to my stats, i need only 1670 a day currently. Last year as gym bunny cd have had around 2150!! Must head back there.
Been focussing - overly- on weight bring 70% diet and "only" 30% exercise... Whoops

TDEE is mostly a guideline anyway. It's good for people to have a look and see what their personal average looks like, rather than take the "2000 for women, 2500 for men" average as chapter and verse.

Having a modified fast day today. I did promise myself I'd move from 4:3 to 5:2 in 2013, and I'm going to start by having two proper fast days a week, and one which is higher calorie than a normal fast, maybe 700-800cals. I'm not keeping track but I've not eaten during the day, and I'll be having chili with brown rice in a bit. Probably some wine. :) It's been a busy day with snow-related activities with my son, but I've just sent him off with DH for another round of sledging. I am happy for the warmth for now!

Hi all well-practiced 5:2-ers.....I am wondering if I can get some advice please? I started this woe on the 7th Jan and have been doing 4:3 as I have worked out (with some help from this thread) that my BMI is 30(and a bit) and I have at least 3 stone to lose. After having gotten over the shock of reading that I am in the class 1, obese range (high risk for getting some future illness) I decided to totally go for it. I have now done 2 weeks of 4:3...but I don't appear to be losing at all!! Is this common? do people think I must be doing something wrong? I'm feeling a bit anxious about this as I have tried SO SO many "diets" in the last ten years and never seem to be able to lose weight....I was (and am) really hopeful about this woe...but was hoping to have lost a couple of pounds at least. Any advice please?

B&W, yes mum

Err...'Yes, dad'

To be fair, in my last post, I should have added "...as well."

Sorry, dad!

Ghanagal, are you calorie counting on the normal days? Maybe you are overcompensating and eating too many? Could you try 4:3?

Oops didn't read your post properly

Just had some granola, natural yoghurt and a tiny bit of honey - that's me done now! 600 cals in one day - i'm so hungry and am so excited about my breakfast options!! This hunger thing will get easier won't it? I did the TDEE and i can go up to 1800 calories, makes me a little nervous but i'll give it a try!

Does anyone know why people do an 18hr fast and then have a 6hr feeding window? I'm just reading the book on Alternate day fasting and it says that you should have 500, dividing it up between breakfast/lunch/dinner. So am i right in thinking i don't actually have to starve for 18 hours if i don't want to?

There are two separate issues involved here chickpea, one is that based on the evidence from Dr M's fasting regime you can get both weight loss and other health benefits from a restricted calorie fast. So hang onto that for a start.

The second issue is when to have the calories and whether the health benefits are greater if you have a prolonged period (12-24 hrs ) between eating. Dr Ms research suggests that after 12hrs the body goes into repair mode rather than build mode. This suggests more health benefits from keeping your calories for one or two meals after around 16hrs calorie free.

Quite a few of us have moved from 3x small meals to 2x small meals to just one meal on fast days i don't think I could have one this at the start even with the one meal fast day I don't have zero calories leading up to it, I have milk in drinks, miso soup etc. I just now eat the bulk of my 500 in the evening.

My advice is to get used to the restricted calories and get comfortable with not eating - it's quite likely that you will find you move towards one meal, but the important thing at this point IMO is get a good fasting habit well established - then you tweak it

Ch1ckpea there are a couple of reasons I can think of:

1. Many of us find that it's a lot easier to just not eat during the day, and to save our calories for one decent meal in the evening. Eating something early on opens up my appetite, and I'm checking the clock until the next time I can eat something. Waiting until the evening also means that the decent meal I have in the evening leaves me full, not going to bed hungry.

1. The health benefits outside of the weight loss, evidently, work best if you fast for at least 16 hours. After 16 hours, your cells go into 'repair mode'. MM doesn't do this, but the other researchers in the Horizon episode commented that they felt it was the most effective method. (if you had to eat anything at all!)

oops xposted with catsrus!

And yes re. The hunger thing :) most of us have found strategies for ignoring hunger feelings then we find they go. I like to think of the feeling as me feeling the actual fat cells being dismantled today I did something unusual and had a second consecutive fast day so that I got 3 in this week - I don't usually fast at weekends but had nothing planned so thought id give it a try.

I now have one nicely sorted set of kitchen shelves - lots thrown out for the birds, jars recycled, open packs of the same thing combined- very therapeutic i didn't have anything to eat until 4 (a few nuts that weren't worth putting in jar! Oops! But I didn't beat myself up) and then a veggie meal at 6pm. Keeping busy is the key for me

Great minds greeneggs :)

Hello everyone!

Just started on this WoE and have done 2 fast days of 500 cals and weigh in on Monday to see the results - very nervous! As the name suggests my DH and I have a bit of a restaurant habit, well a lot of one actually. This WoE may be the first hint that there is a way to live the life we love and get our health and weight under control (I need to lose 2st, DH needs to lose 6st to get to a BMI of 25). I've previously lost with both WW and SW but only by not eating out and giving up on what I love!

Just wanted to stick my head above the parapet and say thanks for all the info, hints, tips and recipes you have here - it'll all come in very handy I have no doubt!

This is also the first time DH has joined in with me as CR just left him feeling cheated, but cutting right down 2 days a week so we can eat 'normally' the rest of the time makes far more sense to him. We started with 5:2 but even before weigh in DH has suggested that 4:3 on weeks it fits in would be a good idea to offset our lifestyle!

Ch1ckpea Here's a link to a blog (the link is also on the T&L thread) by Todd Becker, who advocates what he calls The Fast-5 diet (or way of eating). So he fasts for 19 hours out of 24, then eats during a 5 hour window - which can be anytime in the 24.

Dr M, however, eats his >600 cals split between a breakfast and dinner - but eats >600 cals in 36 hours.

However, the four scientists who featured in the Horizon film were all emailed for their current advice (sometime in the autumn) and they all came back and said that 24 hours without food was the way to go if you could manage it. That link is also on the T&P thread.

This 24 hours without food is what most a lot of posters on here are doing. Personally, I find it easier not to eat at all on my fasting days, until the evening when I have my >600 cals in one meal.

catsrus is right about going into it gradually - pretty much all of us approached it that way - found out what we could do, then extended it a bit the next time.

So it's very much a pick and mix WOL, and you'll find out what suits you and you'll come back and tell us all about it!

Best wishes, B&W

(BTW, I really recommend anyone to browse through that T&L thread - there is a wealth of information and experience on there.)

Chickpea
To add to b&w post, there is currently no scientific research which says these are benefits to be gained from including a specified time period of fasting on a fast day. I think it's an idea that was floated on this forum way back and for various reasons people now think its fact. Mm didn't advocate it on the horizon prog or in his book. When questioned on how to split the 500/600 calories over a fasting day no one knows the best practice as there are as yet no published studies.

16/8 fasting is another form of IF and is done daily. I believe this also results in weight loss plus health benefits but am not sure if all the research is there to back it up.

Anyone recognise the randomised trial mentioned in the second article at the end of H F-W's article yesterday? It appears to say that 5:2,was no more effective for weightloss than calorie restriction but was less likely to be sustainable. No reference is cited and I don't remember evr hearing about it before. Not that I care anyway, this is the WOL for me!
Does anyone on here have any current, evidence based knowledge about which are the healthiest oils or fats to use for cooking and for salad dressings? Opinion has changed so much and so many times that I am quite confused about what to choose. Vegan preferred and I am not bothered about the calorie content, just the looking for health damage limitation.

Border collie
I suspect this is the paper/ref/study you are looking for
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3017674/

Thanks, Skippy, I am not sure that it is as it does not appear to mention asking the participants whether they thought they could continue long term, although I may have missed it. It doesn't really matter, I was just annoyed at having 5:2 criticised without the evidence being cited.
I did think H FW had a valid point about the encouragement by Mimi to snack during the fast even if it was only carrot sticks. I don't know where she got the information that it is within the parameters of " fasting " to do this and still reap the health benefits. It is a pity really that Dr M didn't just write the book himself, I am not sure what she added other than to make it look like a standard "diet" book.

PS we have had a lot of discussion lately about sugar and other hidden nasties in processed foods. May I put in a plea for your pets please? They don't want/ need or deserve that rubbish and its consequences either so please read the labels and check what you are putting into your cat/dog/ rabbit/ horse etc. they mostly need only the simplest of foods. What you pay out in better quality food will be saved in unnecessary vets fees later on.

Wow - i didn't realise this thread was here, there are so many of you and at thread 9!

I've been doing 5:2 since the beginning of January, I don't have too much to lose but enough to keep me motivated, approx 10kgs although suspect 8 is realistic. I've lost about 2 but my waist has returned!

I've found it relatively easy although probably do go overboard on the eating days, I am wondering if I'm just noticing how much I usually eat though!

I do however get massive, serious headaches on fast days, really, really bad ones. I usually drink 4 - 5 cups of tea, nearer coffee or coke etc a day and have assumed that they are caffeine withdrawal headaches. However it has such an impact on my family that unless they start to fade I'm going to have to reconsider this way of eating. Has anyone else had this? Does it stop with time? Any tips on this?