5:2 Diet Thread! Number 9, welcoming the new year...

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day. (This is a new calculator to previous threads, this one seems to give me approximately the same results the last one did, but without the virus warnings on my browser!)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

eek!literarygeek do I need to call the RSPB?

the trouble is chilli is a totally addictive substance....

Hello My name is Laska and I am a chilliaholic.....

Did the intermittent diet a bit last year but me and him indoors are back on the 5:2 wagon again. Week number 2 and today is second fast day (5/600cals). It's freezing cold here, the tomato/fishy thing I made for tea didn't cut it. In desperation I am trying the Zotrim I got given by a mate. This is just woo isn't it?

I AM STARVING

Going to make tea to see if this helps fill the hole.

literary, that article suggests those familiar with carbohydrate counting are in a better position to fast and maintain good control, which is what I do. Thanks again.

Hi tomorrowweeat. What reason did your doc give for not doing this if you don't mind sharing?

literary not patronising at all, I asked and am interested to hear what people think. I am reducing my background dose as I am aware that it will allow me a bit more leeway the following day if I am eating less.

Oooh GreenEggs, thank you for the Bailey's link! I am booze-free for Jan but I shall be enjoying that as my post-abstinence treat, along with the four bottles of Magners pear cider I bought today (just because it was on special offer ).
I never expected to encounter such deliciousness on a weight-loss/healthy eating thread. (Ditto for virginposter's home-made mayonnaise. We are getting chickens this year so I shall file that under 'things to do with surplus eggs'!)

I hit a bad patch at about 4pm today, in between after-school snacks and kids' tea, but thanks to recommendations to measure out milk at the start of the day I had a cup of proper (non-herbal) tea while they were eating and weirdly that stopped me picking at their leftovers. I've also worked out that I need to structure my calorie expenditure on fast days so that I have a little treat in the evenings. DH works away Mon-Fri and I work from home, often in the evenings, so I frequently find myself prowling about the kitchen and succumbing to snacks between 9-10pm. Today I have just had 2 mini squares of G&B choc (= 37 cals), which I have been looking forward to for hours, and that will do me. When I read about Breadandwine having 50ml wine on fast days my first thought was that I couldn't do that, I'd either have to have a proper (large) glass or none, but I am starting to get the point of having just a little, and REALLY appreciating it.

I love the flexibility within 5:2 - for individual interpretation, swapping fast days, fitting it around your life, experimenting until you find out what works for you. Thanks to all the experiences shared by others I am going into this knowing that it's OK to have wobbly fast days, and I know I will (I think today was just a good one because I was so busy).... as long as I keep my eyes on the prize (those pesky jeans)...

PS Laska what a fantastic website! Thanks for the tip. Just out of interest, what are your views on harissa? I am addicted + can barely eat a meal without it. Tried to make my own once, though, and it was hugely disappointing.

tomorrowweeat and anyone else with an interest in T2 diabetes, here's a poster on another forum I use, sharing his experiences of 5:2:

www.wildfood.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1168&hilit=shrinking+the+expanded+waistline&start=2650#p216188

maniacbug I started drinking less wine before I began this WOL. I poured myself a reasonable glass for dinner one day, then looked at it halfway through eating. It was almost gone - and I didn't remember drinking any of it! So I cut right down and now I savour every mouthful!

About the homemade harissa - this recipe looks good, how does it compare with your disappointing one?

www.mideastfood.about.com/od/dipsandsauces/r/harissa.htm

I have just had 3 unplanned fast days in a row thanks to migraine. Boy, i enjoyed the waffles I had for breakfast!
I make home made brandy alexander rather than Baileys. Just substitute brandy for whiskey and add a bit more chocolate. Mmm. Too fattening and only for Xmas!

Hi all I have had a good non fast day today and rediscovered MFP, but this time on my phone which is so much more practical than on the PC! MFP says I should be having 1200 cals to loose weight this means if I have 500 I can really only have 1900 the following day. Looks like I will have to calorie count on non fast days but that's bit so bad.

Mojo I have found it hard to fast properly since Christmas and although I have had more than 500 cals finally I have done a16 hour fast so getting back on the wagon!

Madhouse I have been wanting to get hairy bikers book for a while, its only £5 on book people maybe I should bite the bullet and treat myself (ESP as the Booker prize set is £ 20 and I really want that to!) Feeling tired, maybe I can round off my sensible day by getting to bed soon _ night all!

dogslove my dh sounds like you. He has similar bloods and good control. He lost quite a bit of weight simply through carb counting and portion control. I'm not sure I'd be keen on him fasting though- particularly if he was driving for example. Could you speak with the diabetes nurse at your GPs? You could always write to Balance!

A disappointing article in the Guardian: The 5:2 Fasting Diet is a recipe for Unhappiness.

Thanks for the link, FF. Very poor article, indeed. More like an unreasoned rant. Most of the comments are far more intelligent.

This from Dr M's Twitter feed*:

Michael Mosley ‏@DrMichaelMosley
Just had email from BBC saying may repeat my Horizon, "Eat, Fast, Live Longer", inspiration for #thefastdiet will let you know when sure

If we think this thread is busy now, stand by for a deluge if this goes ahead!

skippyscuffleton has posted this far more interesting and relevant (IMO) article from the NY Times on the T&L thread:

www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all&

(Off to bed, now, Cyclist! I've been preparing for my breadmaking session at a local primary school, for the past hour - but I'm afraid I may have been wasting my time, looking at the weather forecast!)

*twitter.com/DrMichaelMosley

Wow. Yesterday I had a rare tough fast. Usually my fast days are pretty easy to stick to, but for some reason yesterday it took all the willpower I could muster (and faithful promises of baozi for breakfast) to stick to it. But stick to it I did! Feeling very proud of myself.

Woke up this morning not at all hungry. Then the tummy woke up half an hour later and started screaming loudly for those baozi I promised it yesterday. Baozi are like steamed bread rolls stuffed with various different fillings. My favourite is spicy mushroom. They look like this. No doubt I will be investing in a bamboo steamer and trawling the internet for recipes when I get home!

Just catching up with yesterday?s posts.

Hi juneau. The fast days do get easier (despite my previous post, yesterday was unusual). I?ve been doing this for 19 weeks so far so here I my answers to your questions:

• I?ve tried doing total fasts but personally wouldn?t be able to do a total fast every fast day.  I?d?ve thrown in the towel long ago if I tried.  I stick to the kcal limit, which I find easier to spread over breakfast lunch and dinner, though others on here find it easier to eat their kcals over two meals or just have one bigger meal.
  

• You can drink tea and coffee, no problems there.  Just remember to count the calories in the milk and sugar if you take it.  A useful tip is to measure out your daily milk allowance and use that for teas and coffees to make it easier to count.  It sounds like you?ve probably accounted for your milk ok, depending on how big a ?dash? is and how many calories a ?few? is.  <img loading="lazy" class="inline-flex mumsnet-emoji" alt="Smile" src="https://www.mumsnet.com/build/assets/smile-iCO8d7ST.png">
  

• I think it?s probable the stomach does shrink.  After just a week or two of this WOE I was finding the fast days much easier and also finding my appetite on eating days was much less too.  I used to hate going for buffet style food because it was always a balancing act between eating enough not to feel hungry without everyone noticing what a greedy guts I was.  Now I don?t mind because it takes a lot less food to satisfy me.
  

Stick with it juneau, it does get easier and it?s worth it. I?ve lost 22lbs so far.

Hi DogsLoveMeCosImCrazySniffable, one of my dearest friends is type 1 and doesn?t manage it very well. I worry about her as her blood sugars are all over the place. When I get home (I?m studying abroad until March) I?m not planning to tell her about this WOE as I think it could have a very bad effect on her bloods given how badly she manages her diabetes. And if I do end up telling her I?ll be giving her the blanket ?it?s not recommended for diabetics?. I think it?s probably because of the type 1s out there who don?t have a good handle on their diabetes that it?s said diabetics shouldn?t follow this WOE. That and the fact that there isn?t much research into it so far, so perhaps the advice is to err on the side of ?non-diabetic?s systems can probably handle this but we don?t know if diabetic?s systems can or not?.

That said, it sounds like you have really good control of your diabetes and listen carefully to the advice you?re given. I wouldn?t be surprised if you could actually follow this WOE if you were able to get some medical advice regarding how to do so safely within the constraints of your diabetes.

I wonder, do you know any good books or websites I could look at for advice on type 1 diabetes in adults. There?s a lot out there for type 2 but I don?t know how much of that applies to type 1. I?d like to be a bit more clued up so that I can be supportive for my friend.

Ooh, just had a thought. Didn't someone upthread say increased hunger happens just as a plateau breaks? If that's true then maybe I'm glad that yesterday was tough, maybe this slow down in weight loss is going to change, maybe those two pounds I lost last week wasn't a one off, maybe I'm just wishful thinking. Maybe I should stop posting and go away until the rest you have woken up again.

Morning!
Its taken ages to catch up on this thread but its been brilliant - Ive learnt a lot!
I started 4:3 on Monday with my Mum and today is our 3rd fast day. Its going really well so far.
We have quite a lot of weight to shift (although in no rush, doing this to change the way we eat forever not crash dieting) and wanted to ask those with more experience about calorie consumption on a non fast day. I have worked out our TDEE and was wondering if you found weight loss most effective by also reducing calories (say to 1200) on non fast day or by eating closer to the TDEE (and "confusing" the metabolism??)
Thank you :)

2013- go as nr to Tdee i would.
Ezza, well done fir the willpower!

I had an awful day yest and flunked, only 2nd time ever done that. I was on original IF/ID thread jan 2012 onwards which arose from breast cancer/obesity research in Manchester. Name-changed since though. Apparently this study influenced Dr M. Weren't so many of us on thread and rather petered out so good that IF taken such a hold! Anyone else on there also?

Intend to keep willpower today.
with self re yesterday but written off as "a bad day". Good luck to all us fasters today!

Salbertina I was on that initial thread but decided to stop as I was breastfeeding and woke up with the shakes, this doesn't seem to be a common problem though as quite a few breastfeeding on here.

Hi pookey . Do you think it was because that diet so drink/milk-based and low protein?? 5:2 much freer in that sense

The thing that worries me about your link B&W is the connection between elevated insulin and cancer. Elevated insulin is caused by starchy carb sugars too....there's a presentation by a Swedish doctor that convinced me that the quantity of starches consumed need to reduced as well.

If you scroll down theres a video at the bottom of the screen entitled The Food Revolution Disclaimer: contains low carb - high fat diet information - do not watch if you have a heart condtion and are likely to get all hot and bothered about this subject

I gave up sugar on Christmas Day and I no longer crave it and after reading the New York Times article I feel very relieved that I did, I couldn't moderate my sugar intake - every day I would fail spectacularly on occasion, I could only go cold turkey.

Morning all

Laska.....Chilli Wuss am I . Think I'll be joining your Chilliholics annonymous though . Like I think it was LiteraryGreek said, fresh chilli's are good as well, love them chopped up and added to Humous with some warmed pitta bread to dip. I've found Chillis/chillie sauce though a great way of giving some mundane tasting foods a bit of a boost a great help when following this WOE.

Well done on getting through the Fast Ezzza, it's strange isn't it how those hard ones come out of the blue like that. Had a really easy Fast on Tuesday but then struggled quite a bit yesterday myself. Only 6 weeks to go and you'll be able to eat as many Oaty bisuits as your heart desires (every other day )

Salbertina, I thought from the horizon programme and the Fast Diet book that this was a low protein diet, but I agree that this WOE does seem to work on many different levels with lots of flexibility. Looking at the science, as represented in the Horizon show the health benefits from low IGF-1 may be best achieved through keeping protein low but weight loss itself would of course still be achieved even if your protein levels remained high as long as you were using 5:2 as merely a calorie restriction exercise. And of course protein does make you feel fuller a lot more efectively than other food groups so would make the fasting easier. For me though this WOE is for the health benefits and not just the weight loss....God knows I need them

Have a great day all