5:2 Diet Thread! Number 9, welcoming the new year...

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day. (This is a new calculator to previous threads, this one seems to give me approximately the same results the last one did, but without the virus warnings on my browser!)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

wow! chap on tv lost 15 stone in 18months by sensible eating and exercise. inspiring!

Can I ask what feels like a silly question please?

Based on the calculator in the first post, my BMR is 1563, and my TDEE is 1876. That seems higher than I am expecting. On normal days, should I be trying to eat around my BMR or TDEE? (Never mind that eating well above what I should has lead me to gain weight in the first place!)

Waiting
TDEE
so you'll be running a 2600 calorie deficit per week
and as you lose weight your TDEE will drop
and use MFP to log everything you eat and drink so you know what you are really ingesting

Well done to everyone who fasted on this cold day. I feel like giving myself a massive pat on the back. When I got to end of my 24 hour fast I couldn't finish my stir fry. In the old days like laska I would finish everything on my plate, now I don't. Finally listening to my body & this is what this WOE teaches you.

"Talkin"
Thank you! Having looked at it across the week, that makes a lot more sense now! I shall see how I get on . Fast 2 today so a long way to go!

Opps, that didn't work! That should have been Talkin

Waiting
this is a long term approach. I tend do think of my calorie balance per fortnight and only count my weight on a Friday morning so I know the big scale pattern of loss.

aftereights
indeed, more food getting thrown out in this house - even with the reducing portions - but as it all goes into the compost / wormery, the veg garden will benefit next season.

I find on fast days that I just don't eat any of the big carbs - like bread, pasta, potatoes - because I can't afford the calories. I get most of my calories from protein (big prawns a current favourite), eggs, vegetables and salads. They are more satisfying somehow. I have just had an Innocent Veg Pot - the Mexican one, v nice - and treated myself to the tiniest grating of cheese over it. Was fine.

Tomorrow I will have bread !

Fast day 35 successfully completed and 4lb lost since 1st September 2012. Go me!!

Hey Mintyy - well done that you are heading in the right direction.

Hey we'll done mintyy! Glad the weightloss has started....
And yes maniacbug I thought that chewing prepares the stomach but I don't find it makes me hungrier .....
End of a fast day for me... Roll on toast for brekkie!

Hi I'm really interested and want to give this a try, the thing that I am most worried about is not being able to sleep on fast days. I find that usually if I don't eat well enough in a day I will either lie awake with tummy rumbling or wake up in the middle of the night and 'have' to get up and eat in order to get back to sleep again.
Do others find this a problem? Or does the body adjust in time and get used to the fast days?

hello fellow fasters,

I started adf in sept and lost 20lbs, after Christmas I'm back hoping to lost another stone and that'll be me where I want to be.

First proper fast day today and found it easy, it's the only woe that I do find easy, have eaten 497 cals and ate at 5:30pm so now having a 16 hour fast so next time I eat will be after 9:30am.

looking forward to my porridge tomorrow

Iwearblack I just Googled 'chewing gum gastric juices' and amongst all the ulcer predictions was one (scientific-looking) report refuting standard medical advice not to chew gum during pre-anaesthetic fasting, which stated that it can actually improve 'gastromotility' + therefore aid digestion.
Either way, I'm glad it works for you!

Random qu: does anyone know of any acupressure points that can help with hunger pangs or cravings?

Fast day almost over. Have had a big bowl of porridge with mashed banana for tea and a square of lovely Lindt caramel and sea salt chocolate. Yum! Making Panettone tomorrow tho and enjoying eating a meal! I am so much less inclined to waste calories on crap though, even on normal eating days. Weird.

Manicbug some people use tapping to control cravings - have a google for loads of examples of people using it to ie up diet drinks.

lierarygeek thanks for the heads up re Dr MM webchat - I'll be there.

Helgiceta I was exactly the same as you, worried about being hungry in bed etc so I now have all my 500 calories for dinner any time between 6.30 and 8.00pm and never have any probs sleeping or waking in the night feeling hungry.

Also re a post upthread about liking the 'hunger' feeling. I didn't used to like it when I first started but now after 5 months I do like it as it means I'm burning unwanted fat

My goodness, over 100 posts today (my CTL F counter only goes up to 100!). Lovely to see all the new posters - welcome one and all.

Filly, I've put my chilli non carne recipe on my blog with a veg curry variation. I shall put a selection of vegan 5:2 recipes on there eventually.

I've been absolutely fascinated by the sequence of films on sugar and obesity by Dr Robert Lustig I linked to on the Tips and Links thread. Some of it is absolutely jaw-dropping.

Basically, he's saying that High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS) is in something like 80% of processed food (he's talking about the States, of course). The consumption of HFCS does not turn on leptin (the hormone which tells the brain we're no longer hungry), so people keep on eating after they're full. It's also highly addictive! And the rise in obesity over the past 30 years exactly mirrors the use of HFCS.

I urge everyone to look at these series of films, sponsored by the University of California - you'll find out, for one thing, why it has been so difficult for the overweight to lose weight. (I say 'has been', because IF is turning out to be the exception that proves the rule!)

Natasha - sorry about the mention of food! You'll be laughing about this tomorrow!

Ezzza thanks for that explanation - not sure I understood it properly, though! I've never counted carbs - counting calories and now protein is enough for me. The way I see it is that pasta, bread, rice and potatoes are to be consumed in moderation - not so with veg.

Happy fasting and feeding tomorrow, folks!

Snowkey - good point potatoes are a good idea for bulking out dc's meals. Def let me know any winner main meals please! Mine protest a fair bit about healthy meals and my ds is sooooo skinny which makes it a little more complicated, actually of the 3 he is the best with veg but that wont put meat on his bones! Things I have read on here though make me think maybe its ok that he is thin (was within a healthy range for his height when I last checked, but towards the low end of healthy).

By the way B&W I watched a lot of the first film and the thing about harlam children being given some kind of free juice by Nixon (rather than real food??) to fatten them up and make statistics on poverty look better was pretty bad. Have seen a programme on obesity in us before where it seems it can be much cheaper to buy giant supersized portions of fastfood takeaway meals (with lots of corn syrup injected in to bulk it out no doubt) than it is to buy fresh food and cook from scratch. At least here macyDs is more expensive than food prepared at home.

Woohoo!

Weigh day today and I've lost 2lb this week!

Weight loss had slowed right down so I changed things up a bit (cut out booze for January and making a point of going the other side of the river - which involves much walking - at least twice a week) and it seems to have worked. Though I think I'll only really believe it if I lose again next week.

So now I'm half way to my weight loss goal: 1st8 gone, 1st8 to go!

MadameCastafiore I tried cutting out low-cal drinks in favour of water and tea, but I found I wasnt drinking enough and was getting dehydration headaches everyday. I really don't like drinking water unless there's a flavour in it. So I've gone back to the diet coke again, just trying to drink tea and water as well. I think it's ok to drink low-cal drinks on fast days if your focus is weight loss, but maybe cut back on them if your focus is health as there's evidence that artificial sweeteners aren't good for you.

helgicita as virgin said eat as late as possible to stop the stomach rumblings.

b&w I think the bbc did a programme about high fructose sugar called men made us fat. But don't quote me on it!

Looking forward to my gluten free toast & marmite for breakfast after yesterday's fast.

Just had flaxseed toast and coffee, lovely
Sleep sufferers- magnesium supplement 30mins before bed can really help

Read Lustig et al, v convinced, scandal how low-fat as opposed to low-sugar bandwagon got leapt upon- mainly to keep US sugar companies/farmers profits healthy. And this fed into public health messages also inc here in UK

pookey my kids are very skinny too, but they eat well and are rarely ill, so I take that as a good sign. I'd be more concerned if they were chubby or ill all the time.
You could try wholemeal pasta - when bathed in a sauce they don't notice the difference. Brown rice too is readily accepted. Homemade wholemeal bread is almost tolerated, they'd much prefer white bread. I mix up plain flour with wholemeal for cakes and pancakes - I did a little to begin with, they didn't notice and gradually upped the quantities.

Pookey - roast dinners are great for kids - I buy a chicken, roast it, we have dinner, I then strip the meat from the bones - make a curry of some some, then I take the bones and crush them down a little put them in the freezer until I have 3 carcasses, and then I boil it up to make stock, it's so easy...just takes 5 mins.
Although we are not on a tight budget, i try my best not to waste good food, kids are encouraged to only take as much food as they think they will eat, they can always have seconds. Leftovers either go into their lunch box, the freezer or my lunch if its not a fast day.