5:2 Diet Thread! Number 9, welcoming the new year...

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day. (This is a new calculator to previous threads, this one seems to give me approximately the same results the last one did, but without the virus warnings on my browser!)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

B&W I registered on the other site, it was instant I had an activation email sent to my email address and just had to click on th link and then I could log on. I haven't posted yet, but it looks quite organised and well done. But only time will tell..
I've just had the last of my turkey tonight in a previously made and frozen turkey, ham and leek pie.. Bloomin lovely lol.. It's not a fast day obviously.. That comes on Monday..

Welcome newbies. Have done a fast of sorts today (3rd this week) & had around 650-700 calories. Not sure whether to count as a proper fast or not & wondered what other people think. Mind you it's an improvement on the amount I would normally eat on Saturday.

Wanted to atone a little for my sheer gluttony this week & thought its the only way. I seem to be ok on fast days but then uncontrollable on others. Really have got to pull my socks up or I will stop losing weight! I know a few other people are having the same issues - it's probably new yearitis!

Hi Aftereights if I've over-indulged on one day I often cut out breakfast and lunch on the next day - reasoning "I had my breakfast and lunch yesterday!"

Then I just have a normal dinner that night - sort of like a mini-fast.

(As far as I can remember, no-one's mentioned the other brilliant side effect of missing one or two meals - saving time is one thing, but less washing-up is the other! )

The guy on the 'gettingstronger' link (on the T&L thread) does what he calls 'The Fast-5', which is about having a 5-hour eating window during the day. The 19 hour fast provides all the health benefits of 5:2, apparently.

I'll give the link again, since there is so much on his site - and it all looks like good stuff. The 5 x 10 minute videos are all worth watching for the info they contain:

gettingstronger.org/2011/05/intermittent-fasting-for-health-and-longevity/

4th fast day here and so far so good. I've a stack of books to read on insulin resistance, glycemic load, fasting and insulin sensitizing diets. they do not all agree with each other.

DeucesRWild I can't provide a voice of experience but I was diagnosed with pcos just a couple of weeks ago, and it has set me off on this path. right now my plan is to alternate day fast and avoid high glycemic load foods most of the time (carve out for cake).

It is frustrating and enlightening to understand the issue. When pg with dc1 I experienced sudden and rapid weight gain. Unlike other bf mums, none of the added weight shifted at all. At the same time, I work full time at a desk job and it has been all but impossible to have the regular activities and work outs that were part of my life before small children (especially after #2 arrived).

So I am glad to understand what has happened and why - a perfect lifestyle storm. I had already eliminated pasta and rice and minimized potatoes, but it was not enough. Now I am looking at eliminating coffee due to its cortisol stimulating effects.

In addition, due to pcos, I may have to change approach to limiting dairy and soy and no doubt there will be other changes still to be discovered. Have added spearmint tea which is helpful on the fast days and is supposed to lower testosterone levels. I already take multivitamin, D3 and omega3 as longstanding practice.

So the ADF is clearly the answer to me - I have to shift the weight for health reasons as well as desire and it is the first thing to come along to help me shift it in almost 6 years.

One more comment - have seen discussion of IF for women and questions of how it may affect fertility. I note that some women may begin IF from a very lean and athletic starting point, while others like me may be locked into sedentary jobs and lifestyles as parents of young children, and carrying extra weight. I have been advised that losing weigh will assist in improving insulin resistance and fertility, but a very lean woman might have to consider whether it would impact ovulation to push hard with IF. Each has to evaluate their own circumstances.

It is hard to find time to post so please forgive this essay!

Hi Aftereights

Personally I would count that as a fast day. I have had some "fast" days where I ate this amount, including the first one I did after Christmas (which I found really hard, but the next 2 after that went fine).

I have the Mail on Sunday delivered so have The Fast Diet Special

There is no more info than what we have here but I suppose it is good for those that don't know about it but I feel like I have more questions.
I did not watch the Horizon programme but want to so hopefully it will be shown soon.

It says in the MOS that the most relaistic plan is to have two non-consecutive days each week but does not explain why it is more realistic or if there is any scientific evidence behind it?

I also thought Miso soup was very low in calories but in the MOS it says that it is 84 cals so I presume better to stick with more low calorie drinks?

A colleague at work has done 5:2 since August and has lost quite a bit of weight and now feels she is too thin so is trying to put some on

I decided to start this WOE the other Thurs and when I weighed myself yesterday I had lost 3lbs - I know most of this is water but I was still pleased - Saturday is my best day to weigh in which is after a fast day so I know my weight loss will not really be that amount.

I am only 5ft 4" tall but weigh nearly 11 stone, I wear size 12 clothes and don't look too fat whereas other work colleagues of same height weigh a lot less and have same size clothes - most confusing.

I am hoping to lose weight and get myself out of the binge cycle I have. Once I start eating at lunch time I can't stop and then binge for the rest of the day - I am not hungry just wanting more food.

This WOE has really helped me.

I am drinking soya milk coffee in the day time and then having main meal between 6 - 8pm and so far (3 fast days total) I feel brilliant. I am going to stick with 2 veggie saus, quarter tin of beans, an egg and a slice of wholemeal bread for my maim meal - this comes to just over 500 cals for the day!!

Hope to keep posting.

Does your 500 cals account for drinks too?
I live on milky tea with 1 sugar, so on a fast day I don't eat at all. By the time I get to about 8pm and feeling really hungry I just tell myself I've come this far so I might as well push on only another 2 hours and I'll go to bed and get an early night.

Sorting check out the last 2 or 3 posts on the Tips and Links thread for links to the programme.

Hello all, I'm new to this forum and have a couple of questions that i'd like to ask more experienced 5:2-ers if thats ok? (1) I'm 5ft 2 and 51 yrs old....I posted the other day and gave my wt as around 11st...WRONG!!!....just weighed as thought everyone else on forum sort of knows theirs...12 STONE!!!! I'm bordering on hysterical here as that is heavier than I was an hour before I gave birth to my DS!!! So....I know that i have a tendency to go completely over the top (ie starve myself) then give up (as is my nature unfortunately ....Can someone please give me an example of maybe 2 fast day menu examples and 2 feed day examples? I need guidance here or I know I will act in haste in reaction to finding out my weight (oh why oh why oh why did i get on those scales...i can feel my mood plummetting!)

My second question is about whether its ok for a 22yr old person to start this woe or is that not advisable? any advice, support much welcomed.

Welcome to the fold Ghanagal. Firstly I see no reason at all why a 22 year old, or any other age come to that (baring young children).

Getting on the scales was a good thing, denial is bad. This will give you more motivation to go forward.

Fast day example #1 - 2meals
Skip breakfast - just a cup of tea or coffee
Lunch - bowl of carrot soup (250ml) plus a low fat yoghurt = 150cals
Dinner - Butternut squash and lentil curry = 300cals (no rice)

Which leaves you 50 cals for drinks

Fast day example #2 - 1 meal
Skip breakfast and lunch - just coffee or tea
Dinner - Veg Chilli with rice (50g raw weight) = 410 cals

Which leaves 90 cals for drinks and maybe a yoghurt

I have chosen to eat vegetarian meals on my fast days as you get more bang for your buck.

In terms of feed day examples it really depends on what your TDEE is. Mine is quite high as I have an active job, so I can have 2300 cals. I normally have more like 1800 on weekdays, and 2500+ at the weekend. I eat normally - but you really need to get an idea as to what normal is. I logged all my food for the first 2-3 weeks to make sure I was right (which means weighing everything).

I think it helps to watch the secret eaters program, on there they show people who think they eat 1600 cals a day, when in reality they are eating 3000+ as they forget to count everything that passes their lips, and they get portion sizes completely wrong.

Thanks b&w & rosemary

flojo yes you should include milk & sugar in your fasting calories.

Read the fasting diet in Sunday Times & it's pretty much as we know it. Though we get a mention

ghanagal it definitely helps if you skip breakfast. At the start of this I used to keep boiled eggs & lettuce in the fridge in case hunger got the better of me. Now I go 24 hours which I actually find easier.

thanks so much for all your examples and tips. Have just calculated my bmi and its 30.72 which says im in obese class 1 and at high risk for developing health problems. I have to admit...i've bust a few tears at this and am feeling a bit in shock. But...I then came back to this page and there you all where with your support and tips and I've suddenly realised that maybe it was meant to be that I discovered this woe in last couple of weeks and then found the fab mumsnet and the 5:2 threads. I don't feel alone in this journey I have ahead of me to get myself back healthy. (don't know how to show a wobbly mouthed smiley)

deuce, if you have not already discovered them, may I suggest that Jenny Ruhl's books just might save you a lot of reading as she has done the searching of the research papers herself. One of her books is called Blood Sugar 101, or similar. One book is for diabetics, the other for non diabetics whose blood sugar does not behave as it should.
On that subject and with so many new people on here, I wonder if anyone knows of someone with Type 2 Diabetes whose GP or clinic actively supports some sort of Intermittent Fasting?

Morning everyone! Eating day for me today and wouldn't you know it, not bloody hungry. I managed on 400 cal yesterday (huge bowl jumbo oats, banana and some grapes) and was really ok.
I haven 't weighed myself since I started but will today. I have just ordered wii active which has good reviews - like a personal trainer on wii. Making home made ice cream later though so that will soak up the calories! In fact, it was partly that bloody ice cream machines fault I'm as fat as I am. And the waffle maker. Bastards.
I bought some Swedish Fjallbrynt Messmor whey butter from Ocado, its only 5% fat and was 13 cal for covering 2 bits of bread. Its quite sweet and i am pleased to find it as butter was a big user of my daily calories. Us NZ girls love our Anchor! The cat adores the whey butter too!

ghanagal don't despair when I started my bmi was 36! I'm now 29. I've still got another 2 stone to lose before my bmi is normal but on this & with everyones support on here i know I can do it.

Frenchfancy...thanks for your post. Sorry everyone but...can I just ask a question in terms of TDEE....I've just calculated mine (1718)...I've read its critical to know this. But now I know it..what does it mean? I'm kind of thinking from what i've read that it's to do with how much I can eat on a feed day so I lose weight and don't go into starvation mode?

Also it helps not to look at how much weight you've got to lose in total but take it a little at a time. So I work on half a stone decreases for every 2 months. Otherwise I'd panic at the enormity of it all.

Thanks aftereightsarenolongermine :)

Ghanagal - yes, its how much you should aim to eat on a feed day.
I've just watched the Horizon film - very very interesting and will keep me going on fast days. I've weighed myself (couldn't face it when I started) and my BMI is 27. I'm aiming for BMI of 22 but will just keep alternate day fasting until I am there. I am in no particular hurry!

Hiya, I did my second fast day yesterday without too many probs although I was very short-tempered. My first fast day on Weds was quite difficult, the hunger wasn't really a big problem, I can deal with that, it was just that in the evening I just felt like sh1t!! First fast day I had porridge for 'breakfast' which was actually at 12:00 noon, then nothing til about 8pm when I had 110 cal soup (Tesco Light Choices Carrot & Coriander which is really yummy, recommended!!) and a big salad (230ish cals). It felt like my blood sugar had gone crazy, so yesterday's fast I had porridge a bit earlier (11:30am), yummy aforementioned soup again at 3pm then I was busy with stuff all evening so kept putting off big salad for tea until 11pm!! Oops! I was almost thinking, not much point having it now... but did anyway, I think my OH may have been annoyed/worried if I started just having 200-ish cals on a fast day... Anyway, it was weigh day yesterday morning after my first week and I'd lost 10lbs! I think most of it will be fluid loss as my face looks less puffy now.
Mind you, I have got A LOT to lose, my BMI was 40.9, (I'm 5ft 4ins, was 17st) now its 39.2. (dropped to 16st 4lbs). My first goal is 12st that I would love to reach for my 40th birthday in August...
Good luck to all today's fasters!
Joey xx

well done you joey! thats a real achievement. I had 800 cal my first 2 fast days but now find it easier to stick to - only had 400 yesterday.
Keep on going and you will get to the BMI you want.

ghanagal your TDEE is what your body needs each day. If you ate that number of calories every day your weight would not fluctuate, you would stay the same. The aim is to eat that on your feed days and use your fast days as the calorie reduction part of your diet. For me the advantage is I'm not on a diet every day. I can not maintain a diet, after a week or so I go crazy, but on 5:2 I'm fine because most of the time I am eating normally.

The problem for a lot of people is that, before they start 5:2, their normal diet exceeds their TDEE, sometimes by a significant amount. This is why the excess weight is there to start with. If you carry on eating like this whist doing 5:2 you may slow or stop the weight gain, but it may be difficult to lose weight.

For example your TDEE works out at 12026 per week.

If you stick to 1712 on feed days and 500 on fast days you will eat 9560 cals in a week, which is 2466 cals less than your body has used so you will lose weight.

If however you are eating the same as me on a feed day (ie 2300) then 500 on a fast day you will be eating 22500 per week and are likely to either stay the same weight or put on a little bit.

Hope that makes sense.

Thank you so much for your encouragement, Kiwigirl! I guess if you can easily manage on 400 cals then that's ok, I could have almost done that yesterday but I did really enjoy my big salad!

I'm really loving salads at the moment, after all that stodge at Christmas... I have to have some Tesco light choices balsamic dressing and a bit of Sainsburys basics tomato chutney too, to perk it up a bit.

Frenchfancy: thanks that's an excellent summary for me, I totally get it now. So am on a "feed" day today and have just had a lightchoices wrap with a tablespoon of roasted peppers, 2 dryfried mushrooms and 2 slices of halal turkey/olive loaf (approx 100 cals each) so this totals approx just under 500 cals (each one delicious :)). Tonight I'm going to have a slice of granary bread toasted, with half a can of spaghetti and a "happy" egg...again I think this totals around 500 cals. I'm aware that I've still got quite a few cals I can still use up on this feed day too. Question....am I right in thinking then that as you lose weight the TDEE will need re-calculating so your not eating the amount of cals for the higher weight?

MISO SOUP
Do not buy miso soup. Make it. Then you know it will have stuff all calories in it.
Cupboard stores
Jar of miso paste from any supermarket (Sainsburys have it with their exotic ingredients range, Waitrose its with the herbs)
Knorr stock pots - vegetable work best
Bunch of spring onions, living in a pint glass of water on the windowsill or in the garden
Recipe
Boil the kettle.
Chop the green leaves from a spring onion and leave it to grow more.
Put one teaspoon of miso soup into a mixing bowl and one stock blob and half the chopped greens.
Add half a litre of boiling water and stir to dissolve everything.
Dilute with cooler water and serve into one large bowl or two smaller ones.
Sprinkle the rest of the greens on top.
Result
According to MFP that is 25 calories a bowl and around 50 pence a serving.
And it makes you feel like you've had a meal.