5:2 Diet Thread! Number 8, fast away fast away fast away all!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

Here is where I would link to the aforementioned Horizon programme, but it appears as if the BBC have finally noticed it on YouTube and have taken it down. Here is a link to the programme's page on iPlayer, which features a couple of clips, and might have updates eventually. Let us know if you find another site hosting it.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day. (This is a new calculator to previous threads, this one seems to give me approximately the same results the last one did, but without the virus warnings on my browser!)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

pookey That was ThegirlinBrighton - and the quote you were thinking of is:

In their paper these researchers discuss a 1957 paper from the Spanish medical literature.

?the subjects were eating, on alternate days, either 900 calories or 2300 calories, averaging 1600, and that body weight was maintained. Thus they consumed either 56% or 144% of daily caloric requirement. The subjects were in a residence for old people, and all were in perfect health and over 65. Over three years, there were 6 deaths among 60 study subjects and 13 deaths among 60 ad lib-fed controls, non-significant difference. Study subjects were in hospital 123 days, controls 219, highly significant difference. We believe widespread use of this pattern of eating could impact influenza epidemics and other communicable diseases by improving resistance to infection. In addition to the health effects, this pattern of eating has proven to be a good method of weight control, and we are continuing to study the process in conjunction with the NIH."

I came across it in this very interesting blog:

www.proteinpower.com/drmike/intermittent-fasting/fast-way-to-better-health/

It was on the Links thread along with loads of other good stuff!

Do we have contact details for the Dr M website person? There a lots of people on here now who have lost significant amounts of weight but I have not noticed anyone mentioning a problem with baggy skin which I think is a concern on some weightloss methods: yet another benefit perhaps, that skin cells are better able to cope?
Rosina did you come across Red Conker or Rolf of Red Ridges, both about the same era?

Thanks B&W, that was the one I meant. So they put forward that alternate day calorie restriction could improve resistance to infection. Interesting. Studies have an annoying tendency to contradict each other so who knows. Funny that this was tried 50 years ago but didn't really catch on.

BCL interesting if that is the case? I wonder if it's mainly people who lose maybe 10 stone who suffer that side affect though (I know someone who this happened to).

"Funny that this was tried 50 years ago but didn't really catch on."

Hi pookey this was the reason ThegirlinBrighton gave:

"...one of the studies, the Spanish research that was ignored for so long due to translation errors, was so interesting with regards to people living longer and better even though they only started intermittent fasting very late in life. "

My question is, "6 deaths among 60 study subjects and 13 deaths among 60 ad lib-fed controls" is seen as non-significant. Why? I would have thought that over twice as many deaths amongst the controls would be highly significant!

Grr. Today my grandad asked if I was anorexic! I am 5'7 and 9 stone 3. So yes, slim, but not underweight and in no way anorexic! I was quite cross. I have never felt better. Apparently I look awful. I probably did today, as I am recovering from a bad cold and had no make up on. Still, why is it ok to make horrible comments about healthy slim people? I have had an eating disorder, but no one commented as my BMI was 23 or 24. I am much healthier now, but I don't look as they'd like me to look, basically. I get so annoyed! Especially as this WOE means I will never binge eat again: the root of my previous issues.

Ah well, you can't please everyone.

DCMH I have had the same thing in the past - comments because i weigh too much and comments if i weigh too little, not much room to manouevere where people will be happy!

BandW yes, I thought that was strange too! I guess it is too small a statistic and could be an anomolay? Maybe this kind of diet would have been seen as too faddy for the 50s especially following on from the war and forced calorie deprivation and also weight gain wasn't quite the issue it is now.

don't sweat it dontcallmehon it may have been his misguided attempt at checking you are ok if you've lost a significant amount of weight quite quickly, others will be jealous. Yes, you're slim at 5'7" and 9stone 3lbs but as you say not underweight - you know when you ahve something in control and you have managed to find a WOE that has meant you getting to a shape and size you are happy with.

I think anybody will exerscise caution with those they love if they have lost a significant amount of weight, I know I teeter between making sure someone knows I've noticed if they want it to be noticed, but being aware of not bringing somthing up or exacerbating a problem someone might have. Maybe I've just come across too many eating disordered people in my life - as many because they OVERate as well as those who UNDERate

Ugh I feel rotten with this blimming cold. Ate all my chiopinno soup at lunchtime - 340kcals, plus my usual 100kcals set aside for tea and coffee, then had 2 dairy milk squares so have probably gone over already and it's only 3:30pm! Boo. If I can make it through the rest of the day wihtout anything (to be honest I'm stuffed, don't really fancy eating with this cold and will probably be in bed shortly after the DC anyway) then it'll be fine, otherwise a failed fast....boooooo

ATD I think when your ill you have to follow your body a bit. If you keep your calories low by eating healthily the rest of the day its not a fail! A lot of women seem to go for the men's 600 - that means you could have 140 cals of soup and possibly still have the fasting affect? That Spanish study we just mentioned allowed 900 cals!

pookey and ATB when I began, back in February, I began with two days of 50% calories a week, and I still lost weight steadily. I only went for the full 600 calories when I heard about the other health benefits in August.

So I'm sure that one or two days going over you allowance will have no effect at all. And if it makes you feel better...

Maybe the old adage 'Starve a fever and feed a cold' had something going for it!

Yeah I know - even if I gorge in a toasted sandwich or something I'll probably absolutely max out at 900, and it's the third fast this week. Just that I won't be fasting for god knows how long now!

Anyone seen my BUM i seem to have lost it

I think it's eloped with mine! This week someone said that my bum and thighs have disappeared

After the initial fat loss on my trunk the thighs started to slim and then suddenly my bum was half the size. I still have some stuborn lower abdominal blubber that is hanging on as hard as it can but i am so happy with the way this is unfolding and my target seems very achievable . The best christmas present ever

Just a thought to add to the recent discussion about exact calories for fast days , and the 900 allowed in the Spanish study. I am not suggesting anyone change from the 25% calories on fast days because that is the best guideline we currently have, but am thinking there may turn out to be a parallel with recent research on Intermittemt Intervals in exercise, and the crucial part may be the difference between the intake on eating days vs the intake on fasting days rather than the exact numbers. Tis would fit in with PiebaldRiders observations way back on a much earlier thread about mixing things up so your body can't get used to a pattern?? just a musing, no science involved!!
No one has EVER (yet) told me I am too thin, but another reason that some people are getting these comments may just be that here in the Western world we have a wrong mental image of how a body should be and expect to see layers of fat? I know for certain this is true for horse and pet owners who ruin their animals' short lives by stuffing them with food because the mental image they have is of an animal which is fat for the show ring, not lithe and healthy. So it probably applies to people too!

Hi Losers heading off for Christmas later today and just wanted to pop in and wish you guys all the very best for the holidays. Heading down to Argyle and highly unlikely I will get an internet connection

Finding fasting really difficult with all the Christmas nonsense going on I abandoned both fasts this week and am already gaining weight. Old habits have returned and I am snacking and drinking too much. Not freaking out though as I know with this WOE I can get it back under control when life gets back to normal.

Don't stress about skinny it's a WOE for life not a diet. That's what I love you can pig out if you choose & then hop back on when you feel like it.

border you have a point I remember seeing the new forest ponies & thinking how thin they looked. Maybe they are meant to look like that!

I've decided not to do any more fast until dcs back to school on 7th January not unless I manage to squeeze one in somewhere.

Happy Christmas to everyone & for the first time in years mince pies & Christmas cake without any guilt. Yippee

I've not a 'proper' fast for quite a while now (10 days?) and have been eating treats and drinking and having meals at 10pm but I am trying to go without food for as long as possible from getting up. Weekends only do I have breakfast these days. So far so good - still at 22lb lost this morning. I'm hoping I'm getting the hang of eating like a slim person !

I've had the "you don't need to lose anymore" comment - but I do want to get my waist to 30" - currently at 33"

Hello everyone! Last fast day today for a while, I think. I will try to get two in in-between Christmas and NYE, maybe a third if it's not a proper fast. I am not going to stress over it, but I think I've got a good idea of what the days will be like (after having Thanksgiving and other holiday meals whilst doing this WOE) and I think I'll feel better for having the fast days. It helps, though, that we won't have a lot of family here trying to feed us up.

We'll just have my own awesome baked goods, roast dinner, and homemade Bailey's to contend with! And since we've got the week off, I suspect we'll be visiting the Mediterranean cafe in town for some mezze if they're open (great food, good service, and I think it's a good idea to support them during the holiday season) and probably a few other places over the course of the week as I'll be all cooked out.

It's good to hear about the Spanish study. I was planning on doing something similar to try to get my TOTM back on track for TTC in the new year. I will go back to proper fasts when I'm past this stage of my life but I think having regular TOTM again would be good for family planning for now.

For those who find the food boring, please feel free to try out my recipes. I'm gradually writing up everything I try on my blog under 5:2 diet recipes and I'd love any feedback or anything you'd like me to have a go at creating a recipe for.

It's actually not that hard to adapt most recipes - I've even got a pizza recipe that comes in at under 100 calories a slice (though it does use cauliflower for a base!)

Oh and good luck to everyone over christmas! I'm not planning on trying to do too much fasting right now, but for the most part I don't find it too hard

Not fasting till New Year but am currently SO stressed that I'm burning lots of calories. Will calm down in time for supper in New York tomorrow.

I did a fast yesterday I'm doing one tomorrow too as I'm hoping to put off too many indulgencies untill Christmas Eve. Then I'm going to have whatever I like for a few days then back into another fast. Trying to limit the damage is my goal but we'll see what the scales say later.
Not too worried either as I know it will all start moving again in the NY.
Seasons greetings to all and a very Healthy New Year

No fasting for me till January!

Merry Christmas fellow foodies !!

I just did my first Fast day today - no breakfast, 200cal lunch (boiled egg & small bit of dry toast) 300cal supper (123cal quorn peppered steak, 100cal-worth of potato wedges, 75 cal worth of peas). I seem to have survived but I am peckish and would really like another snack before I sleep - counting down the minutes till breakfast. Hopefully it'll get easier though!

I'm considering trying to Fast again on the 24th (no social events that day so won't be awkward) - is the second day of fasting easier or harder than the first? and is it easier if the gap between fast days is one, two or three days?

Can I really actually eat what I want on the eating days? Seriously? with all this double cream about at this time of year? Or is the effectiveness of the plan relliant on you policing your calories even on eating days.

"is the second day of fasting easier or harder than the first? and is it easier if the gap between fast days is one, two or three days?

Can I really actually eat what I want on the eating days? Seriously? with all this double cream about at this time of year? Or is the effectiveness of the plan relliant on you policing your calories even on eating days."

xkcdfangirl It does get easier - and a gap of one day is probably the most popular method. I fast on Monday's and Wednesday's - but you'll find your own way as you get into it;
You can eat what you want - but not how much you want. You do need to keep an eye on what you're eating, even on the feed days.

It really is a flexible strategy which you can pick up and put down when it suits you. But read back and look at others' experiences - you'll learn a lot from that.

Good luck! And Happy Christmas to you - and to everyone!