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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Diet Thread Part Six! Now's the time to de-lurk and chat with us..

984 replies

GreenEggsAndNichts · 25/10/2012 12:49

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

Here is a list of the links we've gathered so far about this diet. I hope I haven't left many out, but we've filled several threads by now. Please share if you find something particularly useful, and we'll add it for the next thread.

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

is a link to the first part of the aforementioned Horizon, subsequent parts of that episode are linked on that page.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting them all in one post this afternoon. Wink

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
TellMeLater · 28/10/2012 19:05

talkinpeace my calorie requirements to remain at my current weight - is that TDEE? Using mfp is between 1670 and 1810 - depending on how I categorise my activity levels between sedentary and lightly active. I'm fairly active but am good at being less than active too if the notion takes me. Wink

ManOnBoard · 28/10/2012 19:43

TML If your TDEE is 1810 then the deficit is only 2620pw or over your feast days an extra 524 which is a couple of drinks or 3/4 rounds of buttered toast mmm buttered toast. Without evidence 5:2 always seemed an arbitrary ratio, I am pretty certain that our hunter gatherer ancestors did not work on a 7 day cycle anyhow. Telling all us tubbies that it is a struggle to eat that much extra may not elicit the required responses but I am sure plenty of advice on how to use your spare 520 cals

TellMeLater · 28/10/2012 20:01

Manonboard I also run and I haven't included my running in the mfp stats. I run between 20-30km a week which works out roughly between 1300-1700 extra calorie burn. Apologies if you took my comments the wrong way, I did not refer to anyone by their size, I was over weight this time last year and just because I have a low BMI now doesn't mean I'm immune to weight gain, on the contrary, evidence suggests almost 90% of people regain lost weight and more. I am not struggling to use up extra calories, I seem to be eating quite a bit more that I did before I started fasting because I feel bloody ravenous at times and sometimes I just crave more food - I haven't experienced a reduction in appetite that other posters talk about and maybe things all change n your body at some point....maybe I've reached a good equilibrium - who would know, from what i can see we seem to know very little and if we don't talk about all aspects of this diet we'll never know.

TalkinPeace2 · 28/10/2012 20:30

tellmelater
I've not had a drop in appetite either - but I started at BMI 23
DH on the other hand (start point BMI of around 28) has had a significant drop in appetite as his calorie intake has started to drop to 'lean body' levels.

the REALLY important thing with this WOE
is that weight loss is a by product of the fasting to improve long term health
therefore we will all react to the calorie restriction differently

it may well be that after a few months, those who have little more weight to lose find a different pattern from those who are still dropping
but we have no real idea - truly empirical scientific study.
Love it :-)

dandycandyjellybean · 28/10/2012 20:42

Hi all not posted for a bit, and really need a Bishop Brennan (kick up the arse for the non Father Ted fans)!

I find the first fast of the week a doddle, but can't seem to crack the second at the mo. In my defense, this is about the worst time for a fair few years with things going on in my life i.e. my dad's cancer, and my disabled for 20 yrs dh being reassessed for fitness for work and almost certainly to lose his bens as the criteria is mad!!! He is v, v depressed on top of his other probs and this is really having an impact on my own daily life, not to mention the £500 a month we'll lose that will really put us severly on the breadline. I really, really want to get a grip on it, and would relish some general advice on how to kick start getting my head into gear.

Dad's cancer was/is a great motivator in one way, but also a massive strain in another trying to be there to support my parents and my dh, and I really, really struggle to fast on a day when I can't stop crying or I feel extra down. But, I so badly want the health and weight loss benefits of this way of eating and I think it is excellent and so effective. Plus, if I make it to tea time 500 cals or under I feel fantastic. Although I have never yet gotten to sleep before 3am on a fast day, but this doesn't bother me at all, I catch up on drama and comedy on iplayer or bbc4 extra!

Thanks so much for this thread by the way, you are all such an inspiration and encouragement, I honestly don't think I could have even gotten to this point without you guys.

Have managed 12 fasts in 10 weeks, lost about 1/2 a stone (was 5lb when I weighed in 3 weeks ago but can tell from clothes that I've lost more since) and 15cm in measurements, 7 of those off my waist (brill as I'm an apple). Also body fat % from 46.8 to 42.5 - still not great but as my dh says still nearer 40 now than 50! Need to lose about 4 1/2 stone in all, but it seem doable with this woe, if only I could get head into gear!!!!! Aaaarrrrggggghhhhh!!!!!!

Please help guys, what can I do to get my head into proper 5:2 gear and not franny around?

TalkinPeace2 · 28/10/2012 20:50

Go on, go on, go on, go on
that portion is very small, that portion is far away
etc etc

silly thing, is your DH fasting with you - even though he's poorly, it can only be good for his health to do say 800 calories twice a week
AND, could you try 16 hours a couple of times a week and partially restrict : even 600 for you and 700 for him
not ideal, BUT for the insulin etc effects it HAS to be worth a try.

PS DH and I are 47, a friend at the gym has decided to lose weight in time for her 70th : and IS succeeding !!

ManOnBoard · 28/10/2012 20:56

TML You did put your running in your earlier post but I wrongly assumed it was included in your TDEE. I do believe that the two day reduction in food has caused my stomach to expect less whereas as you. based on your BMI, already had a healthier attitude to food and have had to eat more on feed days to maintain may mean your stomach now expects more. Speaking for myself I am rarely ravenous and if I do overeat I feel bloated fairly quickly but I do always think I am only ever two vanilla slices away from my old habits. Once I am down to a bmi of 27 I intend to change to 6:1 unless research is announced that 5:2 is the minimum, if it is good enough for DrMM then it is good enough for me.

Aracsmum · 28/10/2012 21:22

Hi ssbc. Sorry to hear you are going through such a bad time right now, which is never conducive to being positive about life choices. you are doing well though - losing half a stone in 10 weeks is not to be sniffed at. You say you can do the first fasting day OK so you can do it! Are you doing both fasting days back to back? Maybe you need to vary the timing between the 2? A lot of people find it easier to leave eating till later in the day (ie skip breakfast) which means you have more calories for later (ie tastier food). have a look at the recipes thread and find something to look forward to to keep from falling off the wagon. Keep hold of how good you feel if you do stick to a lowered calorie intake on fast days. Have you got a few different types of drinks (eg peppermint tea or just hot water) to tide you over when hunger strikes.
Not sure why you can't sleep on fasting days - you are not overdosing on black coffee are you?
Keep it going; you will hopefully keep losing weight and reap the health benefits of this WOE...
Consider yourself kicked up the a**e!

Aracsmum · 28/10/2012 21:49

Sorry that should have been 'hi sbbc'

Breadandwine · 28/10/2012 22:58

Been away on a walking weekend with 30 other guys - we do this once every six months - and, since I emailed everyone about this WOL a couple of weeks ago, we spent a long time discussing it.

Their ages rage from about 50-85, and I'd say most of them are keen to adopt some version of IF - a few for weight loss, most for the health benefits.

Some of you will know I've been struggling to find the reason why I (and others) feel more hungry on feed days - very - than on fasting days - not at all.

During our discussions I thought I might have come across the possible cause of this phenomenon - and it relates to the way our bodies have developed during our evolution.

When we were hunter-gatherers, we never knew when our next meal would appear. We made a kill, we feasted - and then, when it was all gone, we fasted until we could find food again. And it could be a long time before we found any. So our bodies are well used to going without food for long periods.

When we don't eat, our bodies assume there is no food available - famine situation - so it suppresses the (for want of a better term), 'hunger switch';

When we do eat, our bodies assume there is food available - feast situation - and turns on the hunger switch. So, we eat, then a short time later, the body says, "This must be a feast day, so I want more food - to store up fat reserves against the next famine". The result is we feel hungry again - and again and again, every time we eat.

When we sleep at night - or have any period where we don't eat for a while - we reset the switch.

Thoughts anyone?

Breadandwine · 28/10/2012 23:08

I wanted the last post to stand on its own - but thought I would add this:

I've eaten, over the past three days, more food than I have in a long time. Beginning with a large lunch at the pub on Friday, continuing with a huge dinner plus pudding Friday and Saturday night; 2 large breakfasts; two large lunches, etc, etc. I'm home now, and I've eaten a roast dinner with all the potatoes and veg, 4 or 5 biscuits plus assorted chocolate liqueurs and chocolate-covered marzipan.

Boy, have I lain down some fat reserves! I've put on at least 4 pounds and I can no longer do up the last notch on my belt!

Now I'm having an evening cup of cocoa and I'm eyeing up the biscuit tin again!

Shock

Ps. I forgot to mention the copious amounts of real ale, wine and port I've consumed over the weekend. Mind you, we all had a wonderful time - and we actually did some walking! Honest! Smile

2beornot · 29/10/2012 06:59

Morning All.

Wk #3, fast day #5!

I've certainly put the eat what you want on eat days to the test this week! Have to wait to see what effect it has had tho as official WI is tonight.

I'm finding fast days easy, it the other 5 I struggle with!

mollysfolly · 29/10/2012 07:45

Had an enforced fast day yesterday due to a tummy bug so it's quite nice to have had a bit of breakfast on a Monday (especially as the hour change means I'm up much too early for work!). Having yesterday's roast dinner tonight too! Yum..

breadandwine love your posts. I'm sure you're right in your theory. My DH is looking forward to me getting a little Racquel Welch fur bikini and dragging me off by my hair to the cave! a few pounds to go before that's a physical possibility Sounds like you had a great weekend though.

sbbc I was Sad to read about your problems. Hope things improve for you soon.

Have a good week everyone!

dandycandyjellybean · 29/10/2012 09:20

Aracsmum...thankyou for that. It's weird because it's definitely not anything tangible, like not the right drinks or not good recipes, it is all about the frame of mind I wake up in. I usually do Tuesday and Thursday. Don't like doing the weekend, and Monday is usually a mad day so not a good day to do either, so Tue / Thurs seems to be the obvious choice.

With regard to dh doing it as you and TP suggest, I struggle to get him to eat anyway, at this time of year he sleeps a lot and is in bed a lot and so doesn't have much appetite (he has a fab 6 pack tho not bad for 49!!)

On fast days I don't usually eat until teatime, except perhaps a very small salad about 3ish, and then have an almost proper meal. Not drinking black coffee either (gah can't stand the coffee mouth after!!!) I think to be honest I would struggle to sleep every day except on non fast days this is helped along with the odd Wine!!!

I did get into a pair of size 16 jeans last night, which is pretty damn good considering. Grin

I think perhaps that I just need to give myself a real good talking to on day 2, keep reminding myself of the benefits and how good it feels, and how much of a boost it will be to how I feel generally to feel well and see the weight coming off.

Thanks guys, have a good one everybody.

dandycandyjellybean · 29/10/2012 09:22

talkingpeace2 surely that's g'wan g'wan g'wan g'wan...!!! Grin or maybe feck! arse! girls! drink!

Thanks mollysfolly, your dh sounds a bit like mine!

TalkinPeace2 · 29/10/2012 10:42

:-)
Glad your warped sense of humour is still in place!

HelgatheHairy · 29/10/2012 11:35

I've just had my first week where I haven't lost weight. I was expecting it though so at least I'm not disappointed.

I weigh in on Sunday morning and Saturday night I had an Indian and 3 bottles of beer. I've also been comfort eating all week (obviously more work needed there). Also time of the month arrived 10 days early. I did manage my 2 fast days though. Monday was a struggle but Friday I was so busy it was about 7 before I ate and I really hadn't felt hungry up till then.

Still 7 pounds down in 4 weeks is brilliant and I'm really happy with that.

GreenEggsAndNichts · 29/10/2012 13:10

Good Monday to all. :) And welcome to all the new posters! I understand not wanting to post at times; these big threads can be a bit daunting. I'm glad it hasn't put people off.

Quite pleased to be in grey, damp little (insert East Mids town name here) as Frankenstorm bears down on my hometown in the US!

Laughing at breadandwine's post! I'm less likely to push the boat out, eating-wise, lately, but I'm sure as Christmas gets closer that will change a bit. My appetite hasn't been big lately. I have, however, been eating foods I'd long had off my eating list, such as ranch dressing for my salads. I'm eating more salads on non-fast days (I absolutely love salads) and usually have vinaigrette but it's nice to to branch out for a treat.

Fast day here, and am doing a bit of cleaning while DS is at preschool. The inlaws are arriving on Halloween (appropriate date? Grin) so it's needed.

OP posts:
Laska42 · 29/10/2012 13:27

ooh greeneggs you've just reminded me of something I haven't had for years because of dieting .. Blue cheese dressing.. maybe I can now. The other thing I haven't had for years is pizza .. I used to adore pepperoni pizza.. But not sure if I can be trusted with one of those yet though..

madlet · 29/10/2012 14:11

Hello there, I just wanted to say hello. Today is my first day on this diet and i wanted to sy thank you to all of you who have posted about this diet. You have made me want to give it a go so I thought I should say hi. I look forward to getting to know you all.
Today is my first fast day and so far I have had a hard boiled egg this morning and half a tin of soup! As long as I don't go above 500 cals can I eat both breakfast & lunch? I have a salmon steak for tonight & steamed veg.
Thanks

Laska42 · 29/10/2012 14:37

madlet Welcome.. Yes you can have both breakfast and lunch.. do read the hints and tips above(especially bread and wines thread which we have posted lots of ideas and FAQs.

Once you have done a couple of fast days you'll most likely find it easy.. then you may want to incorporate a 16hr period without any food on a fast day (which is supposed to give the best health benefits) .. But I recommend that you just take it slowly to start with and do it however you want for the first few fast days on 500 cals.. then see if you want to do the non eating period. some of us do and some dont..

This is a great Way of Eating (WOE) and many of us are having really good results with it..

GreenEggsAndNichts · 29/10/2012 14:38

Hello madlet! As long as you stay under 500 calories for the day, you should see weight loss. If you're doing this for the other health benefits, some of those happen only when you've had a 16 hour fast.

Several of us keep our calories for the evening which means we have at least one 16 hr fast. I personally find it easier to wait, as if I have food earlier in the day, I just want more. :) You'll find your own rhythm.

OP posts:
TheCyclistist · 29/10/2012 14:41

Hi Madlet Good Luck following this WOL. With the breakfast and dinner thing tbh no-one knows BUT there seems to be quite a lot of evidence to get the full benefits both weightloss and healthwise it may be best to have atleast 16 hours between starting the fast and consuming calories. But as with everything with this, we're all Guinea Pigs. Do what works over time best for you.

Laska we must have cloned taste buds! I used to manage a Pizza Hut back in the day and always had a Pepperoni, Jalopino Pepper, Ground Beef Pizza with Salad and Blue Cheese Sauce for my break. Needless to say I started there weighing in at 11 stone 12 and left weighing around 14 stone [hwink]

ToffeeChops · 29/10/2012 14:45

Hi madlet, hope your first fast day goes well.

I think you can use your calorie allowance across the day as you please. That said, many of us find that saving it for later in the day often makes the hunger pangs easier to endure. Sometimes eating seems to trigger the appetite rather than suppress it. You will probably find a pattern that works for you after a few fasts, and the most important thing is that you can stick with it.

If I remember correctly, I've read that leaving a 16 hour gap between your meal on the previous day and your first meal on the fast day is thought to have particular health benefits because it triggers the cell renewal response. But if you can't hang on that long, just do what you need to do to make this WOE work for you.

Don't stay away too long Minty, I appreciate your posts.

Laska42 · 29/10/2012 14:48

Yes, but cyclistist as we have already established.. You are my long lost twin brother....