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Fasting / 5:2 diet

5:2 Diet Thread Part Six! Now's the time to de-lurk and chat with us..

984 replies

GreenEggsAndNichts · 25/10/2012 12:49

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

Here is a list of the links we've gathered so far about this diet. I hope I haven't left many out, but we've filled several threads by now. Please share if you find something particularly useful, and we'll add it for the next thread.

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

is a link to the first part of the aforementioned Horizon, subsequent parts of that episode are linked on that page.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting them all in one post this afternoon. Wink

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!
OP posts:
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Blondie276 · 28/10/2012 10:15

Hi Sarah - I always exercise first thing in the morning as I find the opposite- as the day goes on I have less motivation as less energy.
Maybe it's because I'm half asleep when I do it!!
I always seem to have more energy after a fast for some reason despite usually not sleeping well after a fast. Very bizarre.
Stick with it though- It may have been a one off.
I know my ease of exercising has a lot to do with attitude so have to put myself in the right frame of mind otherwise I find it really hard.
Good luck though!

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frenchfancy · 28/10/2012 10:26

We have never hidden our fasting from our children. DD1 (13) watched the horizon programme with us and decided she wanted to do it to lose a bit of her tummy. We agreed she could do 6:1. She did it for 3 weeks, lost the tummy she wanted. She then started swimming club and now swims about 2km a week so no longer needs to diet, so has stopped. The other 2 DDs like days when we are fasting as they get to eat food they like (fish fingers etc) which we don't normally eat.

I think that we worry too much about eating disorders in teenagers and not enough about stopping them getting fat and then obese. Obesity kills many many more people than eating disorders, and many more than that suffer illness due to obesity. I'm not saying eating disorders aren't a problem, but I do not believe that dieting, or seeing parents dieting, causes them.

If we genuinely belive that this WOE is a healthy long term solution then we should be teaching our children about it not hiding it from them.

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Mintyy · 28/10/2012 10:38

I'm afraid I disagree with you frenchfancy. Eating disorders and disordered eating are huge problems and whilst obesity might kill you, that is many years down the line. Anorexia nervosa is by miles the major cause of death in women under 25 years old. Anyway, I very much doubt dd will become obese because there is no obesity whatsoever in either side of our family and at the moment she is shaping up to be a tall, strong girl like her paternal grandmother.

But, hey, we can agree to disagree. I'll do this my way and you do it yours Thanks.

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Laska42 · 28/10/2012 12:00

hi all loads of posts since friday ..

I'm fasting today , but its going to be easy..I seem to have contracted a tummy bug Sad so only feeling like mint tea....

Catrus (and someone else) mentioned how surprised they were at how little calories they needed to maintain weight.. I was also . its only about 15-1600 in my case, even taking into consideration the cycling and walking ..

However , I know I do that I should make an effort to up my exercise.. Someone in the last thread mentioned that as we get older (I'm 54) that we should look to do more weight bearing exercise .. I've tended to stick to cardio, but think ill start using the hand weights that I have gathering dust under the shoe rack , and maybe even pop my head around the gym door and see what its like .. I have been thinking about joining our local sports centre where they do have some good classes.. but I'm not naturally a 'joiner' and can always find excuses not to go. no real excuse , but Its quite rural where I live and very easy to just hibernate after I get home in the evenings.. what I really need is something I can go to straight from work, but sadly all the classes in our main town seen to start at about 7pm..

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ManOnBoard · 28/10/2012 12:15

SWAFOT Exercise has been mentioned several times with some saying it makes no difference whilst others say it does. Depending on the intensity of your exercise (aerobic/anaerobic) not eating must, I believe, have an effect on your energy levels as we use glycogen directly in anaerobic exercise and to help to process fat in aerobic workouts. It seems possible that exercising before breakfast may have contributed but you do mention an injury, a general change in your household, and maybe it could be the clocks changing affecting your sleep pattern. For me the recent change in the climate has made it seem more of an effort to work out.

Last week there were a few reports of weight gains and I have read of a study where people put on an average of a pound in autumn but lose it in spring and as we are all in the process of losing weight the gain might be more. For me the act of putting on weght for protection from the cold and as storage of food for the winter months where not much grows has been a regular occurence although I now have enough fat stored to take me through to 2020

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TalkinPeace2 · 28/10/2012 12:40

mintyy
have to correct you there
as per this data from the CDC on causes of death in women, by age group, anorexia does not make it into the top ten at all
www.cdc.gov/women/lcod/2008/08_all_women.pdf
Heart disease on the other hand comes top

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Spinme307 · 28/10/2012 13:33

Excuse me for jumping in here but just wanted to ask a quick question....
On your non fasting days do you count your calories at all, is there a minimum that I should be eating?
I eat approx 1600 cals on my non fasting days although my daily needs to mantain my weight is 2100 cals... will this make a huge difference?

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TalkinPeace2 · 28/10/2012 13:45

spinme
you should not be "dieting" on your non fast days.
Look up what your correct level of calories are for your lifestyle (link in the OP) and stick to that

many posters are having to learn about portion control so are calorie counting
really carefully

remember that the calorie deficit of the fasting days should be enough to get all of the weight loss
and the hunger gaps are what gives the health benefits (ish)

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MummysHappyPills · 28/10/2012 13:46

Hi all! Been lurking and just wanted to ask about the article in the op that talks about IF possibly having downsides if you are a normal BMI. My BMI is 25.1 so basically very slightly overweight. Therefore would it be suitable for me? Dies the article mean 5:2 is bad, or does it mean 1:1?

I was thinking of maybe starting 6:1 and seeing how I go, is it possible to get any results at all this way? I have such a busy life and I can only envisage managing in one day/week.

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MummysHappyPills · 28/10/2012 13:48

Oh, do you still have to calorie count on eating days? Sad

I think the only reason I would want to starve myself completely on 2 days would be so I didn't have to watch what I eat the rest of the time! Grin

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Spinme307 · 28/10/2012 13:52

Thank you Talkinpeace2...I better take another look at my planned food to get me up to 2100 cals!
Its actually harder than you think! lol
I'm just trying to get myself out of binge/guilt cycle and hope that 5:2 is that way forward for me

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Laska42 · 28/10/2012 14:55

mummyshappypills welcome.. I was was only just above normal bmi when i started and am now well into it and have lost 13lbs so far . I do 4:3 mostly , .

Really you just need to try it and see what works for you. You are aiming for a total overall calorie deficit over the week so with a little to lose 6:1 might be all you need to work for you..
But although you don't need to count calories on your non eating days , its probably best not to eat too much over your total daily need figure (TDEE) ( work it out from the links above) if you do want to lose weight.

When it comes to the health benefits it seems that its the the fast that is the important thing (although we are all experimenting here). But remember you are not 'totally starving' yourself on those days either.

Only you can know what your goals are , and what you want to get out of it. Most of us here seem to have have started on 5:2 and then jiggled it around to fit in with what we want to get out of it. The beauty is that its a Way of eating (WOE) and not a set diet per se.. . I don't particularly count calories on eating days now, but did for a while as I needed to get a handle on what eating my TDEE looked like .

Good luck and there's lots of support here..

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TalkinPeace2 · 28/10/2012 15:13

mummyhappypills
I've dropped my BMI from 23 to 21.5 - and have now stalled (then again the large glass of red wine at my side might have something to do with that!)
My yoga teacher (50, uber fit) has dropped to 6:1 to keep the health benefits but lose no more weight (her BMI is around 21)

spinme
the wonderful thing of this WOE is that nothing is forbidden, nothing is wrong : you just eat sensible quantities of what you like 5 days a week and not a great deal of healthy stuff two days a week.

Almost the most positive thing is that it encourages menu planning : thinking about what you will eat at a later date, rather than fridge grazing
as THAT is the bit of the modern western diet that is so unnatural
(DH and I were chatting about it over glass of wine at end of Sunday lunch)
fresh food available all the time is a really modern thing - since the 1950's - that we have not yet adapted to in positive ways.

This WOE rebalances that in a way that we feel in control

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Laska42 · 28/10/2012 15:32

mummyshappypills and any other new posters

I thoroughly recommend you read breadandwines Links and Tips thread .(link above) - and not because I've posted on it

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SarahWithAFringeOnTop · 28/10/2012 16:44

MOB - thanks, that's something to think about. Could be a number of things then... think I will try and avoid mornings though unless there's a good reason.

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TellMeLater · 28/10/2012 17:28

I think I must be doing this all wrong Smile I fast twice a week but I am very hungry on the days immediately after fasting, it hasn't made me think more about what I eat, it hasn't made me exercise more portion control or think more carefully about eating a more healthy diet or stopping snacking, I don't like the taste of processed food, so avoid it anyway. I haven't lost any weight, my BMI is between 20-21 depending on fluid fluctuations.

On calories lost on a weekly basis - my running consumes somewhere between 1300-1700 a week and my calorie deficit from fasting twice a week must be somewhere between 2000-3000 calories....so I must be catching up by 3300-4700kcals over 5 days for my weight to remain stable, which is a hell of a lot of extra food.... I'm wondering if this way of life training me to eat more rather than less and am I the only one who has found this?

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TellMeLater · 28/10/2012 17:45

If this way of life is training me!

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Laska42 · 28/10/2012 18:11

TML What are you hoping to get from this WOE ? Are you looking to lose weight or doing this for for long term health? You are in a very good BMI , and obviously doing a lot of exercise...

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Mintyy · 28/10/2012 18:16

Why would you want to lose weight if your bmi is 20-21? That suggests to me unhealthy body image, sorry.

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Laska42 · 28/10/2012 18:19

Well I think even though it was a fast day i've now eaten about 650 cals. But not too worried as have been feeling rough all day with stomach bug.. but about an hour ago I started feeling really hungry and faint so had some soup followed by some natural yoghurt (already had eggs for breakfast this morning ) but I think I am going to go to bed really early (like now!) with my book and take some mint tea..
Hopefully ill feel better in the morning..

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Laska42 · 28/10/2012 18:23

Actually TML it sounds to me as if you've cracked it! Smile

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TalkinPeace2 · 28/10/2012 18:34

Mintyy
BMI is a very "gross" figure : some people are too thin at 24 and others too fat at 19
I'd like to get my BMI to just under 20 - because allowing for my build and the amount of exercise I do then I'll still have boobs and a bum but not a flabby tummy or hips.
The main thing is that anybody with a BMI under 22 needs to be thinking carefully about WHY they might want to lose more, and what do their good friends say about their size.
I see all my gym friends naked in the changing room and we are all pretty succinct about gain or loss - but that in itself is a sign of self confidence

tellmelater
what is your TDEE - mine is 1550 : so fast days are only a 1000 shortfall ....

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Mintyy · 28/10/2012 18:41

Oh bloody hell I can't say anything. Good luckone and all, am sticking with 5:2 for the foreseeable. Dh and I are feeling the benefits even if the weight isn't falling off. Will lurk and check back in occasionally.

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TalkinPeace2 · 28/10/2012 18:47

(((Mintyy)))) Don't be precious - your comments elsewhere show that you are worth more than that.
Lurk. crack it with you and DH and DD and PLEASE lord it over all of us when you are ready :-)

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TellMeLater · 28/10/2012 18:57

Mintyy I didn't say I needed to lose weight, I just said I hadn't lost any weight. On body image - the thing that might surprise people is that even with a low BMI there will always be parts of your body that stubbornly hold onto fat, being a classic pear, means I am still of ample arse and thigh...believe it or not my lower half looks like it belongs to a different body to my upper half, which is scrawny and too skinny.

What am I trying to achieve with 5:2? I'd like to avoid Alzheimer's and dementia, the cancer thing would be good too. If I lost some weight off my arse I wouldn't cry a river. Smile

I'm not looking for advice, I'm sharing my experience which contrasts with other people's - who seem to be eating less than they normally would do and losing weight. My appetite has increased as a consequence of fasting, maybe I'm just meeting my requirements and although I hope to continue to fast and exercise, it occurred to me today that I must be packing away quite a few extra calories to maintain my weight - maybe if I stopped fasting and running, my appetite would be reduced who knows?

Dh and I would consider moving to 6:1 but what's the impact on the positive health benefits? Has Dr Mosley come back to twitter to discuss the impact on his bloods? and even if he did - that would only be the impact on him - it's hardly a good scientific study when it only involves one person? We would rather endure a fast for 2 days a week for some benefits than take the lighter option of 1 day a week for questionable benefits.

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