5:2 Diet Thread Part Six! Now's the time to de-lurk and chat with us..

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

Here is a list of the links we've gathered so far about this diet. I hope I haven't left many out, but we've filled several threads by now. Please share if you find something particularly useful, and we'll add it for the next thread.

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

is a link to the first part of the aforementioned Horizon, subsequent parts of that episode are linked on that page.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting them all in one post this afternoon.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Babbas have you tried recording everything you eat? I put everything into my fitness pal including food I eat on non fasting days. On one day I was shocked to see I had eaten more than 3000 calories. It has really concentrated my efforts. I will stop tracking soon as I think I'm getting the hang of the amount of food I should be eating. I would definitely take a break if I was you as what you are doing doesn't seem to be working.

Thanks to those who have commented on how many days fasting we need to do for health benefits. Am cross I didn't ask my rheumatologist when I saw him last week especially as he said lots of his patients fast to negate effects of arthritis! It would have been useful for us all.

healstorture myself and friends from the gym are all coping OK with exercise and fasting - I swim a mile most mornings and then do either 1 or two hours of classes, even on fast days.
BUT I do not touch 'diet foods' - especially things like slimfast. I'm trying to teach my body to learn to love a bit less of healthy stuff
todays lunch was miso soup, supper was mackerel and bean salad (tidying up the old tins shelf) and then lots of water and tea

(((Babbas))) something is not clicking. Without actually seeing your meals its hard to say what. Would you be brave enough to put up pictures of a couple of normal supper so we can all put the little gry cells to work?

fireman
its the time gap between solids hitting your bowels that seems to make the biggest difference
but remember not to dehydrate
LOTS OF WATER to make up for what you are not getting in food.

fireman yes it is effectively a 36 hour fast not a 24 hour one. It is 5 days on 2 days fast, not 524 hours feed and 224hour fast.

You could do the latter of course, but if you average your weekly calories you will come out higher, unless you eat nothing for your 24 hour fasts.

healstorturepeople I believe your body will tell you if you are doing too much excercise. If you feel fine then you probably are.

Good evening all you lovely people!

I went on to 6:1 several weeks ago, from 5:2 because I didn't want to lose any more weight. It was seeing that Dr MM had done so that convinced me to try it. I figured that if he, with all the evidence at his disposal - and a GP as a wife - was doing 6:1, it must be because the health benefits were, if not exactly the same, good enough for him to switch.

The alternative is to go back to 5:2 and eat more on the eating days - not very easy to do, IME, unless you load up on sugary/carb-laden stuff.

As it is, my weight is fluctuating a kilo either way, but I'm not bothered as long as I can continue to utilise the last notch I cut in my belt. (Vanity, vanity, all is vanity! )

babbas Where's the 'hug' emoticon when you need it? I sympathise entirely with your plight and hope things improve for you very soon!

I think frenchfancy summed it up very well - and gave some sound advice. Good luck!

Heals over on the Tips&Links thread there's a link to a cycling forum, where a bunch of serious cyclists are practicing ADF - and doing a lot of exercise.

I'll post it here as well:

yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=di4fjbrtknb4r741fqn4uusv00&topic=62353.0

(I mentioned this a few weeks back and thought I'd put a link on the T&L thread. If I did, I can't find it, so I shall post it there now.)

babbas i think it may take more than a week for your body to adjust to any changes you are making . I think eating a little more and dropping some of the activity is a good idea . Do something that makes you feel good and dont worry about the weight loss. I have more than 500 calories on a fast day, around 600 and occasionaly a little more if i have a glass of wine. On eating days i sometimes struggle to eat much so i think its very easy to cut back too much. If you are feeling so down then something needs to change because you are clearly not a failure you may just be trying a little to hard.

Thanks. Don't feel too bad. Looking forward to pasta tomorrow though! Would it be daft to stick to 1200 calories on non fast days. Till Xmas anyway. Need to push weight loss but don't want to wreck metabolism.

mummysHP, thanks for the pesto recipes, I will try them out.
Babbas, I agree with the advice above to be kind to yourself and have a bit of a break. When you start again you could try tying a string round your waist instead of weighing yourself: you will soon notice a change when it drops down nearer your hips. I found this a much better indicator of change than the scales.
You could also try looking less at numbers of calories and concentrating more on eating really big amounts of cooked and raw vegetables, other than potatoes. That will boost your nutrition and may help the weight loss.
Good luck , I am sure some variant of this WOE will work for you.

healstorturepeople if you ADF (which you say you are in a previous post) and you stick to 1200 calories on non-fast days, you would average 900 calories a day on the weeks where you'd be fasting 3 and eating 4 days. That's not a good idea, imo.

Babbas I started this on 9th August. I felt 'unwell' for ages, including flu like symptoms, a bout of diahorrea and chronic tiredness. I've been desperate to lose about two stone (realistically its probably only necessary to lose one, but we want what we want) for about 7 years. My weightloss has been very slow doing this fasting and has (and is still) fluctuating between ten and 5 pounds lost.
I don't consider this a massive amount for the time I've been doing it and am, frankly a little disappointed. HOWEVER....
I turned a bit of a corner recently and wondered if sharing my experiences of 5:2 with you would help, I hope so. During the school half term I did not fast, although there was a day when I didn't eat until the evening, so I half counted it. I expected to pile the weight back on, but that didn't happen!! In fact I lost weight (only a pound, but I'm taking it!).
I also did not exercise at all during this week. (I usually walk moderately fast for an hour three or four times a week).
I've since been back on the 5.2 but last week did a Sunday instead of a Wednesday.
I haven't weighed ,myself but I know I've got smaller as I'm comfortably doing up my belt another notch and I practically slid into a pair of jeans that I previously had to breathe in, to get into them. I spoke to a friend of mine who lives miles away, for the first time in ages recently. She has been doing this since the programme aired and has lost 17 pounds. I was of course, jealous, but pleased for her. She says she eats closer to 600 calories on fasting days, but has never let herself go four days between the fasting days as her old habits slip back in, so she basically changes her fasting days every week.
I wonder if this would help you and me?

And perhaps having a week off completely might give you a re-charge mentally, I'm sure it helped me to gain some perspective on why I wanted to give this a try in the first place.
Anyway, there is some food for thought here hopefully. (Excuse the pun).

Oh btw, I have an ongoing iron issue which I've recently readdressed and that has helped me have more energy and feel healthier. I wonder if like someone else suggested further up the thread, there is a physical reason why this isn't working as you'd hoped? Perhaps my iron issue is slowing it down for me.

I'm not giving up just yet and I hope you find a way to carry on with this too, if that is what you want. There is much support on this forum and it is very interesting to read that many of us are having different reactions and results.

I not a prolific poster on this forum, but I will be looking out keeping my fingers crossed for some positive results for you.

babbas - I agree with lots of posts earlier on this thread. Be kind to yourself, have the occasional cookie - the skies won't fall on your head. Check your thyroid and iron levels as your hormone and nutrient levels may be down. We women have a lot more to struggle with. Also, try eating nutrient-dense calories on all days, which means more fresh and cooked vegetables and fruits. You may be substituting nutrients with ready made meals that are not ideal. Don't worry, we are all here for you and have miles to lose before we sleep

Big groan. I finally tried those weird no calorie noodles last night. Obviously ate far too many and have been awake most of the night with my stomach feeling about to burst. It still feels as though I have a solid lump of hot coals in it although it is now 12 hours since I ate so it should have travelled further by now! I have tried Andrews.
Anyone else have this trouble and survive it?? Anyone want the other 5 packets? I shan't be eating those again. Another groan.

Heals It is definately a bad idea to stick to 1200 on your non fast days. You need to keep your calorie content up so your body gets into the eat-stop-eat routine. If you don't eat properly then you body can't do that.

I am starting to worry that people are seeing this WOE as a very quick fix. It isn't; there are very few, if any, ways of sustainably losing more than 2-3lbs a week and staying healthy. (with the possible exception of the very morbidly obese). 2lbs of fat is the equivalent of 7200 calories. That is how many calories you have to be deficient in your weekly calories by 7200. If you start going much more that that you are going to struggle to get all the nutrients, protien and essential fatty acids you need to stay healthy. Your skin and your health will start to suffer.

To my mind this is WOE is for the long term gains. To genuinely retrain the way we eat. And that means on feed days we have a normal amount of food. Because that way we (or certainly I) can carry on eating like this indefinately. If it takes til next May to reach my target rather than Christmas it doesn't matter. I have the rest of my life to be ideal :)

(I have a tendancy to rant the day after a fast day. I haven't broken my fast yet - I think I'd better go and eat some toast)

babbas I cannot fast the day before my period - I am ravenous and even the thought of fasting leaves me irritated.

I wonder whether reducing your carb intake might help, maybe try drop the bread, pasta and sugar for a week see how you get on. I would also track your calories over a week just to check you aren't unwittingly eating too much.

Mind you I have been doing this for 12 weeks now and I haven't lost anything much and I run or do bootcamp 5 days a week. I do like a glass of red though and I am fond of eating out so maybe that's my down fall.

I believe starvation mode only kicks in when your body fat is below 10% - which is incredibly low for a woman but it is possible that you move less when your body is feeling deprived of calories in an effort to conserve energy.

Breadandwine I know Mosley scaled it back to 6:1 due to excessive weight loss but he never updated the results of his bloods after doing this, but even if he did - one man's result is still not enough evidence to prove the maintenance of health benefits. You have more faith in GPs than I do - I think few would see themselves as specialist in this field, in any case, if the scientific research hasn't been done they will know little more than you or I.

I agree frenchfancy under eating on feed days could lead to nutrient deficiency. I know the Horizon programme suggested that you will gain benefits from fasting whether you ate low fat or high fat on your feed days but I think it's still important to eat nutritionally dense foods on feed days to make up for the potential lack of nutrients on fast days.

BCL, exactly what quantity of the noodles did you eat? I'm in the midst of preparing an order at a place that carries a couple of different kinds of the shiritaki noodles, and was thinking about getting a package or two. Each package supposedly contains 2 servings. Your experience suggests that perhaps that should be stretched to 4 or 6 servings.

If I'm not mistaken, these things are entirely soluble fiber. A large helping would very likely be difficult to move through the system without making itself known. Maybe some strong digestive enzymes are in order. Hope the discomfort passes soon.

Nevermind. I lost 2 pounds in the second week too, lol. So, 4 pounds so far.

Week 3, here I come :D

Re the superglue low calorie noodles - I have to confess that I can easily eat a whole pack if I use them like pasta - ie as the base for a sauce. I have had no ill effects and do find them useful and filling.

NM, I should have read the blurb!! true to my old eating habits, when faced with something masquerading as a grain based carb I opened the packet and ate the lot. Plus an enormous veg stir fry.
I should have known better but have never been good at the portion size bit. I will go back to what works for me and just have an even bigger portion of veg next time!!!
I never could eat 1 biscuit, slice of toast , cup of cereal etc. I know now that I can mange fine without eating them at all but seeing "noodles" even though they weren't, unhinged me!

Hi, all. I've gone back to lurking for the last few weeks because I'm following a different method (absolute 24 hour fasts 2-3 days per week, 18:6 on other days, no calorie restriction outside those hours). However, I was prompted to start at the same time and for the same reasons as other MM watchers in August so I affiliate myself with 5:2 anyway. Hope that's okay.

I'm jumping in today because I've hit my target. I'm quite happy but also confused about what to do now. The weight loss has been slow and steady with many a week completely stalled for no apparent reason. I've found it easy and now need to find a middle ground. I'll experiment further.

My dh started at the same time. Quite fortuitously he had a blood test before starting (on a non-weight related matter and it showed no problems) and is due to have another soon to monitor. His GP will be checking the before and after for him as he's interested in the effect on glucose, cholesterol etc. I'll report back.

Welcome back scatter and well done on reaching your target weight! Dh is continuing to lose past his target weight and is now trying to up his calorie intake on feed days rather than moving to 6:1, he will move to 6:1 when there is some convincing evidence that it works. I seem to be maintaining nicely on 5:2....I eat and drink without worrying too much about limits, although as a bit of a sugar addict, I do put the brakes on cakes, sweets and refined carbs. Will be interesting to hear about your dh's blood results.

Thanks, catsrus and BCL. I may give the glue-o-roni a try but start out with half a serving. That should reduce any digestive risk as well as help justify the high price.

This is my third week of experimenting. First week I did a trial run with one 500-cal day. Second week: one 36-hour complete fast (just water and green tea) and one 19 hour complete fast. Today I'm doing another 36-hour full fast, and it's somewhat easier than the first one. Same as last week, energy level is good (usual exercise, no problem) and I'm feeling calm and clear. This time the hunger is less intrusive. On non-fast days I've just been eating normally but paying more attention to nutrition.

A few weeks from now I'll check the scales. (In fact I've already looked a few times but don't put much stock in short-term ups and downs.) Don't want to lose weight. I'm in this solely for the health benefits. Not having had blood work done at the outset (not that I would have forked over the money for IGF1 testing), I won't have much in the way of measurable proof, just a comparison of basic markers from one year to the next. But irrespective of what that will show, I figure I've already reaped some rewards. For one thing, I've learned that I can go an entire day without eating ... and actually feel better for it. In the process I've become more careful about what I eat - muffins are losing their appeal. Also, after all the reading that 5:2 has prompted, I'm convinced that foodless periods are essential for the body to repair and heal.

well after my 16hrs , 500cals, 22hrs ,500cals, 16hr, fast over the last few days ending at 9am this morning . Im deliberately eating LOTS today (well should be about 1600 cals but making sure its all healthy stuff ).. It feels rather scary ..

However fasting again tomorrow and then not again until Sunday

TellMeLater You're quite right of course - and thanks for pointing out a few things that I already knew, really.

My wife was (is) concerned I've been losing too much weight - I've lost about 16-18 lbs over the past 9 months (I began half-heartedly, back in February and only went 5:2 after the Horizon programme in August). I'm now 5'6 and weigh 9 stone 7lbs - don't know what my BMI is, but it must be pretty low. So when I saw Dr M had gone on to 6:1, I rather lazily followed suit.

As an aside, when I joined WW many years ago, the organiser put her fingers round my wrist and announced that my goal weight should be 10.10! I was 12.8 at the time. I'm much happier at my current weight and wouldn't want to put any more on.

But neither do I wish to lose any more - and I find it hard to eat sufficient calories on my eating days without going down the biscuits and cakes route. But I've learned so much about fasting and eating and food in general, over the past few months, so it shouldn't be too difficult. I have, in fact, incorporated the odd 22 hour fast then eating a full meal rather than >600 calories, in my weekly programme - depending on whether or not I can utilise the last notch on my belt!

Going back on to 5:2 would be very convenient for me, since that's what my wife is on, and I didn't particularly enjoy eating a full meal when my wife was on short rations.

It may well be that one day's fasting a week is enough to shock the body into repair mode, but, as you say, the evidence isn't out there on this, yet. We could do with Dr M doing a follow-up with all the appropriate blood tests, etc. Such a programme could also reflect the broad range of experience evidenced by threads like these.

Hi, I mostly lurk here absorbing all the brilliant advice. I've been doing 5:2 for 6 weeks and have lost 9 pounds. I'm wondering if anyone else is experiencing the following.

I'll fast Monday, on Tuesday morning I have to eat pretty soon after getting up (within 30 mins or so) or I start feeling really sick. This has only happened the last 3 fast days. My eating routine hasn't changed. On a fast day I'll have dinner around 6 and then a cup a soup around 8 or 9.

It's pretty inconvenient as usually I wouldn't eat that soon after getting up but feeling sick is horrible. Anyone else?

Well I've had to pick up a pukey dd from the childminder today, so it looks like it was a bug that stopped me fasting on Sunday, I am fasting today and it may be my imagination but I am also feeling disproportionately queasy and dizzy today so not sure how to proceed really... . Not been sick but did have a bit of a dodgy tum this morning do am trying to work out if my body will do better from giving my digestive system a rest, or giving it a bit of energy with some food! Just curled up with dd on the sofa now so think I can hold out on the food front a bit longer!