So dd1 (8) is apparently one of the few children to fail grade 1 piano -(probably due to nerves)-How to deal with this and her future piano playing? aibu to tell her that she passed?

[Pollyanna]

Her teacher is gobsmacked as she is very competent, and thinks it is all down to nerves. She nearly passed every section apart from the oral part which she flunked. She has told me that she is terrified of singing in front of other people.

I don't want her to feel really disheartened and give up as she really enjoys playing, and I think that it would be a huge blow to her confidence if she found out she failed. (as a separate issue her brother, who we were more worried about failing, also took the exam at the same time as her and passed!).

also any tips to help her with her nerves in the future would be useful. I know there is the option of her not taking any more grades exams, although she does like the idea of doing the grades.

Isn't it possible pass, even if you do not pass the oral section? AFAIK it is a total number of marks so she will need to ensure that her pieces and scales are tip top.

But actually IMO her teacher - and you and your DH/OH - should be working on building her oral confidence if that's her really weak area to bring her up for the future.

ABRSM has a downloadable PDF to help pupils to prepare for exams.

she was 1 mark off passing all the other sections apparently and alot of marks from passing oral. Her teacher had no worries about her passing at all - she was very good apparently. it isn't possible to get feedback from the examiner.

It is her lesson tomorrow so the teacher will talk to her then, but we were just wondering whether it is ridiculous to tell her that she passed when she didn't. Having said that, i know that she would be completely devastated if we told her she failed and that wouldn't do her confidence any good at all.

Thanks for the link, I'll take a look at it.,

I can understand why you want to, but coping with failure is such an important skill to learn, that you'd be doing her a diservice by lying to her.

Don't lie to children!

It sets a terrible precedent (IMO).

I think it leaves them thinking that to fail at something is so scary that parents have to lie about it.

So one day when she fails something and doesn't tell you? When she loses her job but still carries on going out to work?

Don't tell her she passed if she didn't. At 8y she will suss you out, especially when she resits it.

However, don't use the word fail either.

Just say that she is marking remarkable progress towads level 1 and just has a few pointers to work on so that next time it is assessment time she should move onto level 2.

Try to avoid making it sound llike some big one of exam and more like a continous asssessment type programme -- hint that she will have such assessments every so often during her piano learning so that she and her teacher know what she needs toconcentrate or focus on next.

As a child I loved learning to play the piano and it is a skill that I still love now. I always under performed at exams though due to nerves and being self conscious. I normally just passed but actually failed my grade 8!

I hated doing the exams but it was what all my peers were doing and was kind of just expected. It was good in that it gave me something to work towards.

IMHO, it would be completely wrong to tell her that she has passed when she hasn't. It is v difficult but all of us need to deal with disappointment like this at some point. It would probably be better to explain that you know she was capable of passing and obviously had a bad day and that that is fine and you don't mind. Maybe a conversation around whether she wants to:
a) just learn for fun
b) learn for fun for the next few months before considering working towards another exam
c) retake the exam
d) move on to the next grade
Whatever she chooses, try to keep it fun and obviously support her in getting her confidence to grow. This could be as simple as getting her to play in front of you and then congratulating her when she does well before progressing on to playing in front of friends and family.
If the singing part is a major problem, could you start singing along to stuff on the radio with her?

Sorry, that's ended up being quite long and also not sure how old she is as that may affect what you/she decide to do.

I failed grade 1 piano, aged about 8 or 9. The reason I failed it was partly through nerves and partly through having started practising for it way too far ahead (9m) - by the time the exam came around, I knew the piece off by heart, didn't need to read it - and then because of nerves I forgot it, and because I wasn't reading it I couldn't pick it up from the page and had to start again.

Don't lie to her, it won't help her. She needs to know that she has failed so that she can work on it - I passed Grade 1 the next time around, I had a new teacher and he didn't make me practise for anything like as long.

If you want to increase her oral confidence, I would suggest that you get her some form of karaoke entertainment machine - have family singaloud sessions for fun, take it in turns, build her vocal confidence. My singing confidence was shite until I took a teaching course and I ended up singing with a band!

Oh another thing - I didn't take all the grades either (1,2,4 & 6), I skipped a few because of the exam nerves. Ditto Double bass, I only did Grades 3 and 6 (you start with Grade 3, I think Grade 1 is just being able to stand up with the thing!)

Although you don't receive verbal feedback from the examiner you should, at some point, have a breakdown of marks obtained for each section and the examiner's comments.

Don't lie to her - you will have failed her as a parent by lying.

I agree that you must not lie to her.

DD failed Grade 5 theory in November. She's 12yo and I had to break the news she'd failed. I didn't do it well (breaking the news) but she had to accept the reality she'd failed by 3 marks and that's not a pass. She's passed lots of practical exams (G3 piano, G3 violin, G4 saxophone) and was expected to do well in theory. She even got full marks in some sections but she didn't pass.

She's just re-taken. Here's hoping.

Your DD's teacher should be able to point out where she did well but if she passed all the other sections by one mark, it sounds like a very close shave.

If she took ABRSM they also have another publication called 'These Music Exams' here that may be useful.

I realise my exams were a fearfully long time ago but I know I had a written breakdown of the marks with comments (I got 96, 100 being the pass mark) so that counts as some type of feedback.

If you tell her she so nearly passed in everything, and wasn't that far off in the oral but she needs to do some more work in that area, and you're sure that next time she has to do an exam she will be fine because now she knows what's required of her, it will help to keep her confidence up, rather than deflating her.

you're all right of course - I shouldn't and won't lie to her. It is just so difficult as she so lacks confidence at performing in public, even though she is very good.

I will have a conversation with her tomorrow about it and see what she wants to do. Her teacher is happy for her to continue as I decide, either not taking exams until she can deal with exam stress, or just moving onto grade2 next year.

We are also waiting for her tap exam results - she was extremely nervous about this too. I wish she didn't want to do all of these things, but her best friends do.

i think she got 96 too Thumbwitch. I have only had a brief conversation with her teacher (who was practically sobbing down the phone!) about it. She was so close. I don't think the written feedback is very helpful though.

Could she take a break from exams, even if she goes back to them (from memory you don't have to do all the grades sequentially - so your DD could maybe skip 2 & 3 and go back again at 4 or 5. It would take a few years for her playing to reach that standard and would give you time to work on the oral side).

How does she feel about choral singing? That could be a way for her to gain confidence in her voice without being forced to do solos (although a co-operative conductor might gradually introduce her to the concept )

One of the ABRSM FAQ's says "My pupil can?t/won?t sing in the singing part of the aural tests. What should I do?" - and the answer is that they can hum or whistle instead. Might your DD be more comfortable with that?

I used to hate performing in public (including exams) - but when I was just starting I used to do lots of Parent/Child duet classes in the local Music Festival. I also played in the local orchestra (I did cello as well as piano) and a local recorder group. I'm still not overly fond of solo performances, but I did make it to Grade 8 on both instruments. I think all the group playing helped to improve my performance skills and confidence without forcing me to go and do solos before I was ready - do you think that kind of thing might help your DD?

ABRSM exams are marked out of 150, of which 18 are for the aural section. In order to pass you need to acheive a total of 100 or more. You don't have a pass/fail mark for each individual section (although you could estimate one by saying 100/150 = 66%, so you need 66% of the marks of any section to "pass"). Each section should have comments with them, along with overall comments, and for Grade 1 I would expect the comments to be very positive regardless of the marks. I'd be inclined to try and focus on the positive comments and play down the actual result as much as possible - unless she's not interested in the result I can't see a way of not telling her she's failed without telling an outright lie.

Tricky to handle though, especially when your DS has exceeded expectations.

ds got a merit! that's a whole separate issue as dd1 is so competitive with him (he isn't at all competitive).

she hates singing. I found out this week that her friends tease her about her voice, which doesn't help things. I will talk to her teacher about this tomorrow. I am thinking about learning to sing, so it may be something that dd1 and I can learn at the same time. dd1 does sing in the year 3 choir, but so does everyone else.

I don't think from what the teacher said, that the comments are very encouraging. But as I mentioned, the teacher was so upset, I doubt she was seeing anything positive in it (she has never had anyone failing grade 1 before and of course feels responsible). She can miss out the exams, and I think this may be the answer for a while, but she will take some persuading to do this.

I think you need to see the comments, but if the examiner really hasn't managed to come up with anything constructive for a Grade 1 test that he had to fail I'd be very suprised - to the extent that I'd consider complaining.

i completely understand why you are thinking of lying - and would not blame you if you did - but really, if failing is so devastating to her, I would not put her in for any more exams
i do wonder sometimes what music exams are for
you can play and enjoy perfectly well without them - i think they are very stressful for children and more to do with parents showing off than anything that benefits the child

I am happy for her not to do any exams. It will be easy for her not to do piano exams, and her teacher has said she can do this

I was never coerced into taking exams by my parents, far from it. My teachers liked me to consider taking them, despite nerves, because it gave me some kind of understanding of how far up the ladder I had progressed.
It is, after all, an achievement to be proud of and if your DD, Pollyanna, wants to take them then the best thing you can do is support her in that decision and together work out how best to overcome her nervousness.
(IS her voice a bit bad, btw?)

Her voice is terrible!

my dd is learning the violin privately but she doesn't do any exams and I never even contemplated it. Are they necessary for something as a stepping stone to something else for example?

I have never, ever experienced nerves like those I had when I did my music exams, (piano and violin), so I sympathise with your daughter.

In my last ever piano exam, I was so nervous that I really fluffed up the scales. (And partly because I hadn't really learnt them properly !). The examiner thought she was being kind by giving me another chance, and another one - and each scale I tried just went from bad to worse. I can still remember the humiliation!

Don't lie to your daughter, but I think you should discuss with her why she wants to do the exams. She can learn and progress without having a certificate.

Why do you have to be able to sing for a piano exam?

We have discussed it and she has decided that as long as she feels that she is progressing (and her teacher can tell her what level she is at) she will not do any exams for the time being.

It is important to her that she doesn't fall behind her brother!

She took it very well.