Harp as second instrument? Or viola…

[Harpthoughts]

DD aged 13 has learnt the piano for a few years. I have been suggesting for a while that she try a second instrument as I’d love her to experience playing in an orchestra. She’s always been reluctant as she feels busy with other hobbies.

Shes had the opportunity to try the harp and enjoyed her first lesson. But now I’m realising that it’s a silly choice if orchestra is the main aim. My older DC (who plays in orchestras) says viola would be a good choice as they are less popular so fewer people play so there is less competition. It’s also portable! Thoughts?! DD is very much keener on harp.

Double bass! Relatively quick to learn well enough to get into beginner/ intermediate orchestras and lifelong as most amateur orchestras will have spaces. For woodwind, spaces almost never come up. Much cheaper than harp horn oboe and bassoon too. Don't need a massive car. Harp is lovely but definitely not in every orchestra programme.

Orchestras are always short of violas in the section. Go for viola !

My partner played harp for a while. It is a beautiful sound, but more of a solo instrument. (Not always - think of Mozart's flute and harp concerto, for example). As others have said, a full-size harp needs an estate car to transport; it also needs a lot of tuning. This can take several minutes, and has to be done before every playing session. There are smaller harps, which have levers on the strings instead of pedals.

If you want her to practice and progress it needs to be an instrument she loves, regardless of what opportunities it may or may not bring.

Please don't persuade her towards an instrument she hasn't fallen in love with.

Harps also sound so much better during the early beginner stage.

Can you tell I'm biased towards the harp 😁.

On a serious note you need to consider how you are going to transport a harp, how expensive they are, and if you have any harp teachers locally.

Harp requires a lifestyle choice. The instrument is super expensive, as are the lessons, you need a massive car, repairs and strings also more expensive.
All that before heaving it around and unlikely to be able to use the group bus to go places, oh and insurance. I'm only talking about lever harp, for a concert harp, forget it...have you looked at the pricing?
For orchestra place, perhaps something more portable. But all that said, it is a beautiful instrument.

I don’t know how to say this kindly but I do mean it kindly, OP, for you and your daughter, because you have the best intentions for her.

But you are not listening to her. You are focusing on what you want her to enjoy and not what she would actually enjoy.

She wants to play the harp, which is nothing at all like the viola.

She can see her sister loves playing in orchestras, but she is not agitating to do the same.

Learning any instrument involves boring mechanical repetitive work in the first years. Those scales! Those bowing exercises! The frustration when it does not sound the way you want it to! And viola parts in orchestras are not easy. You have to do the practice. You need something that makes you want to keep going. If you do not really want to play the instrument, or to play something, anything, for the sake of playing with others, then what is it?

The viola in an orchestra is also a state of mind. It’s not all about great tunes, though violas get them too. You have to love being in the middle of the harmony, and changing the colour and character of the music. Is this what your daughter loves?

You cannot force the positive experience you want for her if it does not chime with her.

There are a whole lot of practical reasons why most of us might have to say no to the harp. That doesn’t mean imposing a different instrument on her is the answer. She may never come to see the same advantages in it that you do. And then what’s the point? What would she like to have done with all those hours?

Yes @NomNomNominativeDeterminism. Very good and wise points.

Also nodding yes to @NomNomNominativeDeterminism 's post. There's a personality fit with an instrument that needs to be observed. I loved playing the viola in orchestras for the reasons she stated. Nicely said, NomNom.

My DD recently started playing the harp (she already plays the piano). I was a bit dubious about it for all of the reasons you suggest, but she loves it. It’s not as expensive as you’d think because she’s started on a lever harp (smaller and more portable, goes in the back seat of our small car), and we rent it rather than buy it. Her school orchestra also does have some parts for harp so she does have opportunities to play it orchestrally. It works with the same staves as piano, so she’s progressing really quickly and I have to say it does sound lovely even at the lower grades.

Overall (I play the violin), the cost is comparable — yes you can get very cheap violins, but a reasonable learner violin plus all the accessories isn’t actually that cheap. Plus loads of people play it, and violin/viola sounds dreadful until they get to about grade 6!

There’s something to be said for allowing her to follow her own interests. Stringed (and woodwind) instruments are difficult, there’s always someone better than you, and if you aren’t really passionate about it it’s really hard to put the necessary work in to progress. Harp offers some surprising opportunities, including the possibility of crossing over into folk performance as well as traditional classical. I was pleasantly surprised by how well DD has taken to it.

If she loved the harp let her play. She won't get an orchestra experience but will have a side hustle of weddings and funerals for life.

If she already sings in a group, isn't singing her second instrument?

Loads of adult choir opportunities so very sociable.

Lots of transferable skills from tuned percussion (marimba, xylophone, glock etc) and always in demand in orchestras. Really good if she wants to get into jazz too.

Oh and I echo @Purpleisnotmycolour about double bass! Always in demand, the repertoire is amazing especially in jazz. And very easy to pick up bass guitar if you want to dabble in pop/rock.

I second the person who suggested she try out a number of instruments and see if there are others she likes the sound of. Trombone is a brilliantly versatile instrument; orchestral, jazz and if she learns to play it in both treble and bass clef, will be able to play in a brass band too. It's also an endangered instrument so often possible to access extra opportunities.

Let her play the harp if that’s where her heart lies! I say this as someone who started learning the harp around this age. The harp is the only one that stuck long-term and I absolutely love it.

There are orchestral opportunities for harp if that’s what she wants (does she?) and harpists are few and far between so she’ll always be in demand. I personally found it so refreshing as someone previously playing violin in the school orchestra where there is so much competition and you basically have to be a prodigy to be “visible”. It was lovely to be the sole harpist!

But there are also lots of other opportunities for playing in groups with a harp, especially if she enjoys traditional folk music as well as classical music. And of course lots of solo opportunities.

It’s a beautiful instrument. And sounds good even as a beginner. Yes, carting it about is a pain but it’s worth it!

@Britneyfan sadly times have changed when it comes to music in schools - I remember my school in the 80s having a full orchestra, wind band, string ensemble, jazz band. DS's school can just about scrape together a jazz band and a choir (with no boys )and there are a grand total of 6 string players in the entire school. It's so sad what has happened to music education.

For all of these reasons, it sounds as though viola would be a great choice.

someone made the point upthread about the size of a viola. I can technically play both violin and viola but being quite short a viola is not comfortable to play for a long period- my arm is stretched beyond what is comfortable. So there are some practicalities to consider!