Harp as second instrument? Or viola…

[Harpthoughts]

DD aged 13 has learnt the piano for a few years. I have been suggesting for a while that she try a second instrument as I’d love her to experience playing in an orchestra. She’s always been reluctant as she feels busy with other hobbies.

Shes had the opportunity to try the harp and enjoyed her first lesson. But now I’m realising that it’s a silly choice if orchestra is the main aim. My older DC (who plays in orchestras) says viola would be a good choice as they are less popular so fewer people play so there is less competition. It’s also portable! Thoughts?! DD is very much keener on harp.

It's true about viola but she will be up against people switching across from
Violin. Still, I agree viola is much more practical than harp.
Cello is also a good choice if she likes it. Double bass too, and always in demand but similar size and transport issues to harp.

Harp definitely feels like another solo instrument. Not many orchestral pieces need one. Also a complete pain to transport (my friend's DD plays one). For orchestral, I'd go for a string instrument, you need lots more of them than wind/brass so much more chance of getting into local orchestras, Uni orchestras and also professional ones. Viola is a common second instrument for pianists as is usually the most in demand.

Thanks both, I’m kicking myself for not having twigged this basic point. Of course DD is now very annoyed that harp seems to be off the table.

If your dd loves the harp she should go with that and you will inevitably figure out a way to manage the practicalities.

I am friends since adolescence with classical musicians who play in orchestras. Viola players are always the butt of every joke. Am not sure why tbh, but they are; maybe it is similar to drummers often getting roasted. So your dd may have to contend with that if she chooses viola.

My vote (which I acknowledge is worthless to you) would be cello, because it sounds so beautiful. But they are also large!

Harp isn’t really an orchestral instrument.

i play viola. I like it.

what does your daughter want to play? Most orchestras need loads of violins, a few cellos and violas and some woodwind and brass.

alternatively she could take up a brass instrument and play in a brass or military band.

orchestras vary in how sociable they are.

The problem with harps is you also need an estate car...

I play viola and it has given me lots of opportunities. We viola players are only the butt of jokes as the other musicians are jealous of our sociable spirit and lack of intra-section competition!

The thing about less competition etc is sort of true - but don’t forget that the average orchestra needs a lot more violins than violas anyway! Either would be great and allow her to play in chamber groups as well as orchestras.

But is there a big band or similar for which she could play the piano? That would be very sociable for her too

My new favourite instrument is the piccolo, having heard one played so beautifully at a concert recently, it was a real 'moment'. How would she feel about woodwind/flute? Portable, beautiful, practical for orchestral ambitions.?

I play viola, having switched from flute. It’s fab, would highly recommend. Yes, we’re the butt of jokes, but it’s all good natured really! Lots more opportunities on viola than on many other instruments. Having said that, if your daughter doesn’t enjoy viola, then she won’t get the most out of it no matter how many opportunities there are!

Is this her dream or yours?

I suppose I’m thinking that since she’s starting a second instrument relatively late I want to give her as much chance as possible to get good enough to play in an orchestra eventually. I know violin isn’t the easiest to begin with (that’s DC1’s instrument). I’m also aware that there are many fewer places for wind instruments.

My friend’s DC started percussion and picked it up well enough in a couple of years to play in the school orchestra. But DD doesn’t seem interested in that option.

There are many fewer places for wind instruments in an orchestra but there’s a lot of wind or concert bands around which are just woodwind and brass.

viola is harder than violin initially because you need to learn alto clef as well.

Very good question! DC1 was recently rhapsodising about how wonderful it was to play in an orchestra, so grateful for having been encouraged etc, so I wanted to give DD this opportunity as well. DC1 wasn’t always particularly keen when younger but is now involved in two different orchestras.

I definitely wouldn’t recommend flute or clarinet as they are super popular but only 2-4 slots in an orchestra, compared to 20+ for violins.

The least popular or “endangered” instruments will give her the most opportunities. These are oboe, bassoon, horn, trombone, viola, double bass.

Of these I’d say viola will give her potential access to the widest range of classical repertoire - orchestral and chamber - she could play in string quartets for example.

Oboe, bassoon and horn are all difficult instruments, really come into their own in the orchestra (beautiful solo moments in classical and romantic repertoire) and highly sought after, not as much chamber music but still some gems.

Trombone and bass are versatile in that they are also in jazz, swing bands etc but less fulfilling in terms of orchestral music id say (possibly same for viola).

Maybe let her try out a few and see what attracts her?

I just saw your last post but was also going to say that percussion is the natural choice for many pianists, but if she’s not keen then that’s fine!

Does she want to play in an orchestra?

Harp was my second instrument (although I wasn’t particularly good at either that or piano!)! There was a harp ensemble at my school which was lovely to play in. The harp is a beautiful instrument.

Seems to me you’re getting ahead of yourself with ideas of competing for places. Beginner orchestras accommodate everyone. She isn’t auditioning for an advanced ensemble yet - if ever. Can’t she just enjoy taking part?

Certainly some instruments are quicker to get started with than others. Violin / viola are not quick starts.

What instruments interest her? Can she try out a few?

Also if the point is ensembles and enjoyment how about voice?

Thanks all for further thoughts. It’s really the experience of my older DC (and friends’ children, nieces and nephews etc) that makes me want to give her the opportunity. She does sing in a group already and enjoys it.

Another viola player here so would be my recommendation too. They’ll always be places to play and much cheaper than the harp!

Harp as a second instrument isn't practical for sure, There is way too much hefting involved for it to be second to anything! It is a lot of work. But when you love it you really love it.

There are group playing opportunities for harpists but they aren't mainstream - summer schools, festivals etc.

I think if she loves harp she should go for it though - I'm always surprised how many times DD2's school has a harp in symphony orchestra.

But if you just want an orchestral instrument - bassoon, oboe and french horn would be my top suggestions (DD2 is a bassoonist, DD1 has a viola) the bassoon is rather wonderful, much to my surprise. And I LOVE the oboe.

Im a violist/violinist and pianist and my mum is a harpist.

Harp is a lovely instrument but a right pain in the backside. You can't progress without a (expensive) full sized harp which needs its own estate car! Not very sociable, there were some harpists in my youth orchestra but they were mostly sat around bored.

One good thing about the harp though is that you can make a decent living taking it round and playing at functions and weddings. Don't need anyone else just by yourself. Obviously you need to be pretty good to do that so that's probably a few years off.

I can't recommend violin or viola enough. Once I was good enough to play in youth orchestras (and go on tour!) I loved it. Loads of spces for string in an orchestra, much harder for everyone else.

Viola players are even more in demand. It is technically harder though, I'm quite a big girl with long arms which helped. If you were petite you'd struggle to get a nice tone I think. I learnt violin to grade 6ish and made the switch reltively straightforwardly, these days I still play both

Harp has lots of good transferable skills from piano so she’ll progress quickly with it. 13 is quite old to start a string instrument and very different to piano so may not be so much fun for her.