Autumn / Winter 24 - music thread

[northerngoldilocks]

Feels like time for a new thread for the new school year!

Come and talk about music lessons, choosing instruments, exams, auditions, specialist schools, orchestras or whatever other music activities are going on. Everyone is welcome, from those with total beginners to those whose children are studying music at advanced levels. Ask for advice or share successes or struggles.

Year 3 is standard I think @QueenMabby - that’s when dd’s primary offered lessons and she started. For random reasons we weren’t in the country when we asked her about which instrument she would prefer, we were away in Peru.

When she picked flute it later emerged she thought she was going to learn the panpipes. I am grateful that this is not the case!

In general I think 7/8 isa good age to start, but I think it may be possible she’s the latest music specialist starter in her school. Plus she only started her first instrument at 10. However she showed NO early musical promise - don’t think there was any way we could have known!

@minisnowballs I love the panpipes! 😂 and used to listen to lots of panpipes buskers.

I thought that maybe DS had musical nous when he was obsessed with Star Wars age five or six, and would say 'here comes the emperor', and I'd asked him how he knew and he'd say he could hear the emperor's theme tune. Then pointed out that Luke, Darth Vader etc had their own theme tunes, and that they changed when it was happy or sad. I guess major or minor.

I'd never noticed before!

Whatever happened to panpipe buskers? They used to be everywhere and I haven't seen any for years!

@photodad I assumed it was to do with the guatemalan civil war etc when we were younger. Perhaps I'm wrong and they've just gone out of fashion!

DS got distinction on his grade 2 piano! Super pleased for him. He worked very hard to prepare for it amid all the violin practices as well. Really proud of him! He's had a little time off from piano this week and he didn't know what to do with the extra free time he decided to compose a song of his own! He's only got a few bars in but I love it already!
His teacher said his grade 2 dragged for a bit too long because of various things happening. He played loads of pieces apart from the exam ones though. She'll move him onto grade 3 straightaway but they'll skip the exam and just do a grade 4 exam next time. DS is very excited about the plan!

Congrats mini @chickentikkasalad a great result!

Well done @chickentikkasalad DS. That's a lovely confidence boost on piano.

Congratulations, @chickentikkasalad DS!

Morning everyone. I was just wondering how those of you with children who are working towards GCSEs or have just done them fit in their practise and how much they do each week? DS just gone into Y10 and it feels like his time is so squeezed. He has ensembles before school Mon/Tues, orchestra after school Tues, Jazz band after school Weds, 1 hr sax lesson after school Thurs, 1 hr clarinet lesson after school Friday, county orchestra Saturday morning. He was also meant to be doing something else on Wednesday evenings which we’ve had to drop. He’s a scholar so unfortunately he’s on the hook for everything apart from choir which he managed to negotiate his way out of! Thankfully, grade 8 clarinet was done last term with ARSM not likely to be done for some time but he wants to get grade 8 sax done before GCSEs. He’s not a morning person - we’ve tried practise before school but it just doesn’t work.

Congratulations @chickentikkasalad - well done him! Composing his own music is really great too.

Brilliant news @chickentikkasalad ! What a clever boy.

@amr78 I sympathise. DD2 of course has managed this by moving to music school and cutting down on the number of GCSEs. In year 9, which is when her old school started GCSEs, she was down to do 12 subjects by year 11, and music was going to have to be after school and it was a nightmare.

She did practice before school - it was non-negotiable because otherwise she wouldn't have fitted everything in - and just had to be very very focused. But she didn't have mandatory commitments in school, though Saturday school did last all day.

If you DS is a scholar it sounds like an independent school (I might be wrong?). Might that mean you have more control over asking him to drop a subject and using the free periods or lunch for practice, which is essentially what DD2 does at her new school?

The one thing I have learned is that there is no real need for anyone to have a load of extra GCSEs unless they love them.

DD1 has taken 11 and no-one will ever ask her about more than eight. She regrets that she was forced to do so many.

One friend's son was forced to take 12 by his school and ended up with a 7 in music when he deserved far higher as spread himself too thinly.

I would say persevere with the early morning practice even if it is tough - it is mandatory at DD2's school - even 'non morning people' like her must do EMP three times a week, and if they don't they lose their place. She's a typical teen and does find the getting up very hard but does it because everyone else is.

Sorry, that's an essay, but with one in Year 11 that is where we are at. DD2 is taking eight GCSEs, and all her predictions are 8 or 9 - which now feels achievable because she isn't also trying to fit further maths, RS, triple science and latin into her day. She is only sad about the latin.

Her old school wouldn't have allowed any school play/ensemble/sports at all into Years 10/11 because GCSE years - I actually like the new approach better, I think these add more to her life than the extra GCSEs.

@minisnowballs thank you for your reply. Yes DS is at an independent school but not a specialist music school so he’s doing 10 GCSEs as per everyone else in his year. He’s not particularly academic but isn’t showing any leanings towards pursuing music professionally at the moment although things can change very quickly in the world of a 14 year old! I have discussed with DS about asking whether he could perhaps miss games but he’s very keen not to be seen as being treated differently to his peers which I understand. We’ve also discussed specialist music schools and JDs but these are not currently an option. Very difficult to know what to do for the best.

We are in Scotland so a different system. 12 GCSEs sounds crazy. Our school goes the other way and really limits their choice in 4th year exams, leading to narrowing of opportunity for highers. However, alongside this, they 'use' brighter students to improve their stats by taking extra unnecessary subjects. ( Partly because their headline stats aren't amazing, they think by diverting attention with other extra figures it looks better!) On studying/ practice, I would just say they need to be motivated and organised, with a good balance including some kind of exercise and seeing friends. No early morning practice here. However, as they get older, we've found they can fit some practice in at school during music lessons ( as the subject is not very taxing) or study which helps massively. If they want to, they will make it work.
I think some ensembles don't always add loads of musical value but they are important as part of them being team players, being with friends, supporting staff efforts to raise the profile of music in the school, adding some experienced players in to lift the standard, being a role model, representing the school etc so are pleased they do these with good grace. ( But if there is an essential practice to be done would let them miss occasionally).

@horseymum the problem comes when the school wants bright students to take extra subjects to bring up its average, you're right - DD2 wouldn't have been doing 12 if it hadn't been for further maths and triple science. And then music was an afterthought at her school so if she wanted to take it she had to stay after school - so even less time to practice or have a normal life!

@amr78 - I can totally see not wanting to be different, also Games are good for the soul. I guess he/you might just have to accept less practice for a bit while GCSEs take precedence. But spaces might include tutor time (DD2 used to have her school music lessons in that time even at her comp) or perhaps something like RS, which she managed to negotiate out of without too much drama.

I've just looked at DD2's timetable for today - Drama, Music, Biology and then two lessons marked Practice. I think she also had the dreaded EMP, so that's a lot of time in a practice room! Huge change from what she was doing before - half an hour was the absolute max in a day, even for grade 8.
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I’ve been reading these threads for a while but with just one kid going along, ticking the boxes, I never had wisdom to contribute or a question to ask. But now we’ve hit a question mark so hoping someone here might have some advice.

10yo DS is just about to sit grade 5 ABRSM Singing for Musical Theatre. Four pieces to sing, three of which no worries about at all. The fourth we keep teetering on because it’s one of the songs marked with a star for maturity. No swears, it’s just a grown up song sung by a grown up character, and it wouldn’t be a good choice for a kid in an audition or even a teen for stage school really, but in terms of technical singing and performance, this song is brilliant for him. He loves it and it is by far the strongest performance of all four exam pieces.

The fine print about the starred for maturity just says to use discretion. Do you think he could be actually marked down for being too young to sing it or would you go ahead? Teacher doesn’t have enough experience with the exam board to give any insight here, as we only swapped to ABRSM at grade four because he needed that particular board to tick a box at school. We are flying blind and I don’t want to cost him a grade if it’s likely to be trouble but also don’t want to cut his strongest song if it would be fine!

Thanks so much for anyone who might have any ideas.

I'm afraid I have absolutely no idea about musical theatre grades. Is the 'maturity' thing more of a warning that some might be mildly offended or something?

Re practice and commitments clashing with GCSE, we're having this very problem.

DS is doing 10 GCSEs, with another (astronomy) as an after school activity twice a week. He's also doing school production in another two after-school slots, and orchestra in another. His lunchtimes and breaks are often filled with ensembles, and of course he would occasionally like to be able to talk to his friends.

He has three instrumental lessons a week - horn, piano and singing. These are no longer allowed to be in academic lessons, so fitting them in is a real challenge, especially as the teachers are peripatetic and not available all that much.

When he does have a lesson in break it means missing five minutes of the following academic lesson, and sometimes he's told off for this. I may have to Have A Word! He's a music scholar, so I see it as part of the deal. He got 7-9s in all his subjects at the end of year 10, so grades aren't a concern.

Actual instrumental practice gets squeezed in occasionally around his out of school commitments - three choirs and two orchestras!

@CatatonicLadybug I can't imagine that, even if ABRSM did dock points for it being 'mature', they would dock very many - and I doubt they'd drop any at all if done well. If it's recorded they probably won't even be able to work out how old your DS is and will just judge on voice quality.

DD2 did 'Burn' from Hamilton as her national youth choir audition at 12 and no-one batted an eyelid - except the teacher we got her afterwards who thought it was hilarious.

Most of the songs in the normal singing exams seem quite 'mature' - she just did 'can't help lovin' dat man' and something in spanish about men who keep secrets for her grade 6.

Oh and 'whe'eer you walk'', which sounds gorgeous until - as she put it - you realise it is just 'jupiter trying to get into someone's pants again'.

@CatatonicLadybug - Not sure I'll be much help. Dd has three instrument/voice lessons a week, plus three orchestra rehearsals, three chamber group rehearsals and two choir rehearsals. All at school. All three individual lessons happen before school (her one hour piano lesson starts at 7.30am!) as do a couple of the rehearsals. It's ok for her as she's a morning person.

She also does 2 hours of dance and 1 1/2 hours sport training a week with a match every other weekend.

Plus 11 GCSEs and like mini @herbaceous a couple of drama rehearsals also.

She's very busy. Instrument practice happens on the days she has time, and mostly in the evenings. However her cello stays in school wed-Fri so no practice on those evenings! Longer practice happens at the weekend although that's not the ideal way to do it.

She's not doing GCSE music as although she loves music and does a lot of it she doesn't love the analysis of it and she thought it would be an "easy option" which for her was enough to put her off!

I will say though that she thrives on her busy-ness and is happy for her instrumental progress to happen more slowly now she's in exam years. She's working towards g8 on piano and cello but I think it'll be well into L6th before she takes them. That's ok. Something has to give and it helps that she knows she doesn't want to study music or do it as a career so it can drop in priority when needed

I think when things are so busy something has to give and as long as your ds has a priority list for what those things can be then it'll work out.

@CatatonicLadybug my DD did 'So in Love' from Kiss me Kate for one of her Grade 8 songs (classical not MT) when she was 12 and I would say it is quite an emotionally mature song. She was not marked down for it (28/30) - her conveyed commitment to the character of the song was noted in the comments. I have only ever vetoed one song for DD which was in fact 'I'd do anything' from Oliver as I don't like the rather graphic description of hanging.

@minisnowballs my DD loves ‘Burn’ and I do find it intriguing when she sings it as she genuinely sounds impassioned, and I have no idea where she is drawing that passion and anger from.

@amr78 DD has just started as a full boarder this year (Y9) so no GCSEs yet but she is a music scholar so has two choirs, orchestra, clarinet quartet and wind band in school whilst also fitting in her LAMDA and the school play. She also has to fit in all her music lessons and practises in school time for three instruments, singing and drama; she saves time as she is boarding but she does have to be quite organised to fit it all in and there have definitely been things that she wanted to take part in this term that she couldn’t because they clashed with music/ drama. For her school the expectation is that they take at least 10 GCSEs (DD will have an extra language and maths so is looking at 12) but I don't think that she has to take music even though she is a scholar.

Fantastic news @minisnowballs on your DD getting into the top choir - she must be thrilled!

Congratulation to your DS @chickentikkasalad - a great result!

Delurking to share the pain @amr78. Both of mine went through the GCSE years as cathedral choristers with saturday music school and an hours commute each way. They did both negotiate dropping subjects and doing some of their homework in those free periods. I've not yet come across a head who allowed musicians to skip PE (I think there is a legal requirement to do a certain amount in school) but mine got quite adept at skiving off - I preferred not to know the details.

Beyond that it was a case of being incredibly organised and squeezing bits of homework into any gap they found, working smart rather than clever some of the time and negotiating hard with the head of music over just how many orchestra/choir rehearsals they could skip.

Also wanted to say good luck to anyone with DC starting conservatoire this week. DD1 has refused to go in today as RCM will "be heaving with freshers not knowing where anything is". Spoken with all the disdain of a former course rep.....

DS is doing music as a GCSE - it's kind of expected as a scholar - and his horn teacher had always scheduled his horn lesson to be in those lessons. But it's meant he's missed a lot of the curriculum, so that will have to change!