Autumn / Winter 24 - music thread

[northerngoldilocks]

Feels like time for a new thread for the new school year!

Come and talk about music lessons, choosing instruments, exams, auditions, specialist schools, orchestras or whatever other music activities are going on. Everyone is welcome, from those with total beginners to those whose children are studying music at advanced levels. Ask for advice or share successes or struggles.

PAY for a certificate? That's outrageous! 🤪

Certificates are the only reason to do grades, surely??

Dd will have 2x g8s eventually soon - they're expensive enough without adding in any more. Have ABRSM been talking to Ryanair??

@chickentikkasalad Im
glad to know my child isn’t the only one who can be a bit rough with his instrument. He’s still very much in the whacking things with sticks phase of boyhood so the temptation with the bow is sometimes too much! What size is his new violin and what age is he?

DS has a little 1/8 size but seems to be growing like a weed so wondering when we will need to size up. We got a cheapish secondhand one from stringers and I think can trade it in for the next size though I have to say I didn’t like them that much in the shop so wondering whether might be worth going elsewhere.

@Compsearch i can totally relate to the temptation with the bow! He's nearly 8 and uses a 1/4 size but he's quite small for his age. I think he'll be on it for another year! He used to do dancing with his old violin in his hand, or play it like a cello!

There are virtually no good quality 1/8 violins around. I tried very hard rang every shop but couldn't get a decent 1/8. Sounds like your DS will grow into a 1/4 quite soon. It'll be much better!

@QueenMabby Trinity already charged for certificates, so we've already been stung once.

I've always reckoned certificates are a bit lame really, they should go for belts like martial arts.

DD would love to be 'black belt' at flute.

Fortunately (unless she takes grades in secret in the school hols like this one, oops) dd's exam fees are covered by her scholarship, so we just pay for the cert.

Talking of outrageous prices, a friend asked if DS wanted to join the National Youth Choir.

He was a bit 'meh', then I looked up the prices. One course is over a thousand pounds!

That's increased a lot. Girls choir was cheaper than that. The saving grace for us was that unlike the NCO, you only have to do one a year (or certainly did with the under 15s) and that made it a lot cheaper to be a member - nearly fainted when I got the cost for main orchestra for that one.

Wait, you have to pay for certificates? That's shocking given the exam fees. I wasn't aware that you had to pay for NYO/NYC! (DS used to dance, and we did pay for him to be in an English Youth Ballet production, but his 'associates' programme attached to a ballet-school was free...)

@minisnowballs We're both Oxbridge too, and DS is aiming for Natural Sciences. As it happens, our DD is currently a student in Cambridge.... but it's Cambridge School of Art (which is part of Anglia Ruskin)!

I think most people don't realise how much NYO and JD cost. The costs are huge, although some bursaries are available. However, these rarely take outgoings into account so if you have more than one musical child, it definitely adds up. We want to be able to give our children opportunities though, so will do so as long as we can. It's what we choose to spend our money on, with no expectations of a particular outcome. It will never be wasted, even if they don't choose music as a profession. I love the pleasure music brings me as an adult amateur.

Check out the trailer on Facebook for the BBC young musician of the year, starting on Sunday. Inspiring to watch and even better when we recognise some faces.

Gliga is a decent and not expensive violin for beginners, DD has been playing it till grade 8. It's not loud so many people don't like it as more difficult to project in bigger halls, but you can always try different strings.

DD had a 1/2 size kindly given to us by a neighbour - it had a small crack in it but was fine for the stage she was as at then after that got a 3/4 size from our local area sale board. I bought her a better bow and put dominant strings on both and they took her to around grade 5. Switched her to a full size violin then when it was probably too big but she needed a better violin as was outplaying the other one by that point. She's 11 now and it's looking just about ok for her, so my experience is that they grow through sizes quickly- but then DD is taller than DS was at the same size so perhaps more true for girls. She's also 90 % limbs!

Depends on the child I guess - DD stayed on 1/4 for what seemed to be forever, until well over 10yo, I even grew impatient as the sound was tiny. And we're not of small build ethnically. Growth spurts are sometimes unpredictable too.

Also the teacher I think. Some prefer students to stay on a smaller size longer. Mine moved up violins before bows sometimes too- eg 1/2 bow on a 3/4 violin etc

Agree though it's not really possible to predict what size violin by age, and needs a teachers help generally

Interesting about instrument sizes. I had naively thought that DS was about half my height so would probably have a half size 🤣 - couldn’t believe it when they gave him a 1/8! He’s definitely not mature enough for an expensive instrument so it’s all probably for the best.

We got his timetable through for CYM yesterday and he starts next week. I think nearly all the other kids started the programme last year so I hope he makes friends and settles in ok. One of the reasons I was so keen to find a class for him is that none of his school friends are interested in music at all and I’d love him to have a little peer group.

Hope everyone has a lovely weekend!

We moved DD on from smallest violin sizes quite quickly, 1/2 lasted 2 years and 3/4 three years. And now dabbling in viola so they might keep getting bigger - she plays a 15" viola which is bigger than her full sized violin but still small by viola standards. We still have her little 1/10 size violin, it's very cute. Her teacher could get a surprisingly good sound out of it, she used to demo on the little violins to show DD what her own violin could do.

Which makes me realise DD will have been playing for ten years by the end of current year 8. She's had so many cool experiences already. PS Folks, take pictures of your small beginners. I was an idiot and so self conscious about being thought an idiot for giving a 3 year old a violin, I didn't take pics. So wish I had.

I was an idiot and so self conscious about being thought an idiot for giving a 3 year old a violin, I didn't take pics. So wish I had.
@thirdfiddle I've always wondered why there is such a stigma around "tiny violins", to the point of sneering comments. We're of Romani descent and it's kind of normal for us to start dancing and playing instruments almost as you start walking - our family is not musical at all, but even for us it was nothing special let alone "idiotic" that a child does that. Surely there is nothing wrong about being musical, it's not like you're doing something antisocial 😆
Also teaching wise - out local music school as well as JD do not allow early start on the instrument so we had to delay lessons for a few years even though DD begged and begged for the violin. I find the policy VERY strange.

DS has wanted to play the violin since he was tiny but we couldn’t find a teacher who would teach him when he was 3! And tbh his combination of personality traits - perfectionist/afraid of failure/high energy - meant that I didn’t think he would necessarily take instruction or focus that well until now. Weve just done loads of musicianship and singing with him instead which has been great.

Our second child is completely different - very focused and compliant. She’s a lot less naturally musical than DS but I think should do well anyway because she is so teachable. She’s almost 4 and wants to learn piano - I think we might start her next year.

We tried to get dd2 to do piano when she was 4- she learned to read at 3 and we were trying to occupy a very busy mind. However all she would do was kick the piano and ignore the teacher- she had three lessons and then we agreed mutually that she should have no more.

she now reckons ‘four year old me was stupid’ and is really cross with herself as she’d love to be able to ply the piano properly. She didn’t touch an instrument again til 7- and then it was group lessons.

So kudos to all of you and your focused kids - I’m really impressed as we could not face it.

My DS didn't start instruments until he was about 7, although he started dance classes a couple of years before that. The dance lasted around 10 years until everything started to clash with his sport, but he had a blast with it. I know I'm preaching to the converted, but things like that give such a great focus for kids. (In the US, they say "preaching to the choir" which always amuses me because church/cathedral choirs are hardly models of faith!)

Well, quite. But we already fork out for half the fees for a musical school, two more lots of music lessons a week, an orchestra course each holiday, now Rodolfus each summer, endless musical theatre fees, choir and orchestra subs, etc etc... If he's not that bothered about NYC, then not sure it's worth the financial hit!

French Horn news - our city is blessed with many amazing orchestras etc for its size. One of them had an open rehearsal for 'young people' last night, to which DS went. The concert is a celebration of John Barry, so you can imagine what fun it was to be third horn in Goldfinger, Out of Africa, etc. He came out bouncing like Tigger. Has really reignited his orchestral love. And he's been asked to go back next week to make up the proper numbers in the horn section!

The wonders of the minority instrument!

And yes - the peer group they get from music is so 'nourishing', to use a fairly vile phrase. It's so important to have a life outside school, I think, with your own tribe. It certainly saved me from a miserable teenagehood.

As for age of starting, DS refused to countenance learning the piano, then when I bought a book to help teach him, refused to acknowledge there was any relationship between the blobs on the page and the keys before him. So I left it. Then when he was about 8 he just got the book and taught himself in a weekend. Started proper lessons in 2018, and is now diploma standard.

He didn't ever have singing lessons - just being a chorister was quite enough. He has them now though to help him 'drive' his new changed voice.

That made me smile herbaceous. My DS also had very decided views about when he was going to learn things. I remember him telling us he was going to learn to swim 'when I'm 5', and having no interest at all in preschool lessons - he did too. I think it was around the end of year 2 he deemed it time for piano lessons. (Also a degree of FOMO with little sister starting music lessons first maybe...)

We started DS on the violin with a Suzuki teacher when he was 4. There was the occasional moment where he showed glimpses of musicality - boy did she have to work hard for her money! It was a real shame as the teacher announced a couple of months in that she would be going on maternity leave so we then had to find someone else. The transition was a total disaster and he spent entire lessons wanting to demonstrate his Taekwandoo moves or play on her piano! Needless to say the new teacher advised us it would be better to wait a couple of years! When DS was 6, I took my old clarinet out of the loft and he absolutely loved it. We were lucky to find a secondhand C clarinet and a teacher willing to teach him on it. He’s stuck with woodwind ever since with brief forays into piano but he’s never been able to give it the time it needs.

Dd didn't do any formal music lessons until she was nearly 8. Despite the fact that she blatantly loved music - danced and sang from about the age of three. Not coming from a musical background it just didn't occur to me!

It wasn't until she moved to a private school for year 3 and they automatically sent out a "would your child like music lessons" form and dd expressed a desire to have piano lessons that we considered it. After half a term her piano teacher called me to say how well dd was doing and that she thought she was very musical.

Cello followed at the start of year 4 when all children had group lessons on one of six offered instruments. After two terms she wanted individual lessons.

Church choir followed in year 5 and she picked up singing lessons in year 7.

She's now 15 and studying for g8 on piano and cello and g5 on her singing.

Music is a huge part of her life and a part of me wishes I'd investigated lessons earlier.

DD is finally switching to 1/2 violin, we went to Thwaites today to try a few - as always, it's so so subjective, more expensive French violins do not necessarily sound much better than a good old Maidstone, and DD preferred louder German ones which I disliked 😂 It doesn't look like we've sorted this out yet and we need it on Monday...