Poolside chat - new year, new racing!

[Glittertwins]

Hope this works, am rubbish at this!

Interesting interpretation there as DS had a pair of Blueseventy race jammers when he was 11 or so, they'd have come under those restrictions but they were not expensive nor did they have any compression (that I remember). Just a very bright colour that he loved.
They actually ripped on the bonded part on the leg so it was an emergency purchase of the arenas at that time!

Do your coaches explain the difference between counties, regioanls and nationals? As in the massive difference a ranking can be in both? Same really with level 4-1 meets.

How do you find parents respond to that? Do they understand or do many just ignore it or get annoyed and think coaches are putting down your child's county final achievement?

I only ask because I see such a difference in parents responses and understanding of how it works (despite it being explained consistently).

This came to my mind in relation to the chat about tech suits and when and where they are best used and at which point to invest.

I'm just thinking aloud about how we support parents with recreational swimmers competing at novice meets not to feel the pressure to start with tech suits etc when their child could progress to national level and want better and better more expensive suits and they feel they need them as they must have a better suit as it's a bigger event. Also the understanding that a tech suit won't last as long being worn all day and when swimming 10 races in a weekend compared to swimming 1 event a session and worn for just 45 minutes each time over a week where they may compete in 3-4 events and possibly finals.

I'm wondering if the messaging needs to change. Rather than "you don't need one" to something like ....... well I'm not sure which is why I'm thinking aloud!

We have explained to us what the level of meet means in terms of whether there are timing pads, who competes, if a qualifying time is needed, qualifying windows, pool size, level of ASA membership required etc. I hold a TK qualification, am training to be a coach and swim myself with a masters group now, so I know a bit about what qualifications are needed poolside and how that differs between meets too, although I doubt the other parents at DD1's level know that also. I find a good number of the parents have no idea of things like the various infractions that disqualify swimmers either, which is understandable when you have a 7yo with a Train ASA but much less so when your child is at Counties! (The regional level parents are generally all involved with coaching/officiating/TM-ing etc, so are very knowledgeable). So some of the lack of knowledge is on the parents for not taking much of an interest TBH.
There is definitely a large amount of assumed knowledge generally from the perspective of the coaches and committee, and I am forever having to stick my hand up with a "Hi, me again with another question... Sorry, this is probably obvious...". Google has been my friend for a lot too and I make a lot of effort to be as clued up as possible, but sometimes I've been caught out with an 'unknown unknown' - poor then-5yo DD1 at her first gala springs to mind! I knew there was a warm up, but having never attended a gala at that point I didn't realise it was done in the pool and thought it was probably a few stretches and star jumps on the deck for the littlies 😂 we had carefully gone through everything that would happen step by step as her coach had explained it to us (we didn't known she was autistic then, but all the signs were there!), but he also hadn't thought to mention what exactly the warm up involved. I still remember the look of confusion when she was led to the pool, then another 9 children hopped into her lane too (she assumed this was the race and had of course been told she gets the lane to herself for that) 🙈 She went off like the clappers, open water everyone-for-themselves style (it was carnage), and totally burnt herself out, then they got her out and led her back to the other end for another length... And another... (they only do 25m for warm ups and races at that age) Off she went again at max effort... Poor kid was shattered by the time it came to the actual races 😩 I make a point of telling newbie families this story now so they don't suffer the same fate!

In terms of equipment and suits, the coaches will advise if you ask... There is a recommended kit list on the website, but given how many kids turn up with long scuba fins when they move up to a higher squad and first need their own fins, clearly few parents check, it never mind ask the coaches! The only info actively given about what they wear is the reminder that no photos should be taken unless the swimmer has a top on and that Crocs are not suitable for dry land training, even if they do have the strap down at the back (🙄😩😂)
However, even if the coaches did send out a memo that tech suits were unnecessary, that horse has currently bolted and as we've discovered, your DC will be amongst a single-digit group that doesn't have one.

Overall, the lack of info sharing has been frustrating, and DD2 is definitely at a much greater advantage now I know the bits of the system she's in well (I'm still on a tight learning curve for DD1). Falling foul due to ignorance has been one of the reasons I've got more involved with volunteering in the club, as I now get to hear more information and time is taken to explain things to me. I do also really enjoy the interaction with the swimmers and celebrating their successes and progress with them too - it isn't entirely for selfish reasons!

Sorry itsgettingweird I went slightly off on a tangent (I'm on my phone so can't see your post to refer back to as I type). In terms of rankings and how they work, this has never been mentioned or explained in any form from the club past letting us know their times have appeared on the rankings website. I have learnt a bit from Googling stuff as I've spotted things I haven't understood, but again, I'm very sure there is a good deal I don't know because I don't even know I need to ask the question. Maybe we are let in on the secrets once DCs reach a higher squad...? (Ever the optimist!)

My opinion on it is as follows - in the end only one thing matters which is does the swimmer enjoy it? If the answer is yes then they get loads out of it. If the answer is no whether they are club level, county level or national level they will quit in the end.

My dds are ‘just’ county level we have lots in the club who are nowhere near county times. It’s about fitness, enjoyment, having lots of friends, doing something constructive outside school. Constantly chasing times just saps the fun out of it.

Coincidentally dd1 has just put her serious face on and told me she wants a tech suit. Well she is nearly 15 to be fair, it’s probably time 🤣

Skanking has a very good point about "the obvious is only obvious when you know about it".

A few of us "swim parents" occasionally update our "guide to competitive swimming", but I am beginning to doubt that it covers swim warm ups versus star-jumps.

Our junior squad coach gets the older kids to demonstrate racing starts and DQ's (but very few parents observe).

What else should we cover? I feel an update coming on....!

The dq rules are really important. Dd1 got dq’d in her first ever race for a one handed breast stroke finish. The coaches tell them in training but to little kids it’s abstract, I didn’t know either. Dd2 on the trip to her first gala I was going over what she had to do in 100 IM. It was her first ever race and she got it all right (well apart from nearly breaking 15 metres when I advised her to not come up too early in the fly as her stroke was proper dodgy 🤣)

It's definitely hugely beneficial to know what gets a DQ as a parent so you can run it through with your DC. I remember first learning that if your goggles come off on entry, you can't quickly push them back in place or take them off (exception: freestyle). I relayed this to my daughter in horror in the car on the way home. She was equally horrified, but it clearly stuck in her memory as it's happened to her a number of times now and she's never dared touch them even when stuck in some awful positions. It happened most recently at Counties, but she was solid on what she had to do and not only completed her race without a DQ but bagged a 5 sec PB 💪🏻 (it's amazing when you realise they really have listened to you and taken it on board!). This is not something her coach has ever explained to her, and if that car chat hadn't happened, the first she would have known about it was when her coach was explaining to her why she got DQed...
Things like a 2-handed touch or finishing on your back is definitely drilled into them from the moment they come into the club, but it's still forgotten surprisingly often with the younger swimmers. Having it drilled into them in the car on the way there too can only be a good thing.

I will have a think on other things we've discovered by surprise, but an 'idiot parent's guide to your child's first gala: step by step in a language a 3yo would understand, for people who only ever normally see competitive swimming briefly on the Olympics' would have been welcomed with open arms! Including how results are calculated (some are simply fastest first, others can be won by the slowest in their category if they totally smashed their PBs), when they're announced, how categories are set (by sex/squad/age? We've had various combinations), and that they might get a medal so hold on and don't bundle them out of the building immediately.
Possibly a list of what to pack for a gala, differentiated for different level/length meets would have helped. This is again something I've helped new parents with for Splash Galas. Club Champs and Splash Galas are short and powered by Haribo here, but balancing enough of the right food without overfilling them over 8 or 9 (more?) hours is an art.
Bringing a camping chair and entertainment (colouring, Top Trumps etc) was also new to us last year once DD was old enough for open meets - it just hadn't been necessary at our short level 4 galas.
Reminders to pack spare costumes & towels as well as goggles, nose clips, etc.
An overview of the different types/levels of galas and leagues the Club is involved in, and who does which. I didn't realise initially that we were allowed to enter the open meet listed on On Deck just after DD's birthday (making her eligible). I'd assumed it was invite-only and it had been accidentally added to our account, knowing that was the deal with the various leagues the Club attends and because nobody had mentioned it to us. It wasn't until after the deadline that another parent explained we could have just signed up to go. Nobody had explained the difference.
A guide to all swim wear would be helpful. At the opposite end to £300 suits are the U8s who turn up in frilly holiday cozzies and novelty goggles (haven't these parents heard of drag?!). Some DCs have little tutu bits and I coached a 12yo last weekend with a 1950's style fashion costume. Thankfully we weren't practicing competitive starts... 🫣 Ditto equipment lists for each squad. We have one big list for all, so we have small DCs turning up with hand paddles and snorkels that they won't be using for a couple of years yet, because it was on the list. Or adult-sized pull buoys, because the parents didn't realise child-size exists.
Demystifying the different squads and plainly describing what you have to achieve to progress on a flow chart would be great too. Bonus points for when & where each squad train, so you can plan to avoid clashes as they approach moving up. I'm either swimming myself or coaching whenever my DCs are in the pool, so I get told more than most, but it remains a frustrating enigma and is open to claims of unfairness.

After too many forgotten bits of kit, I put a laminated sheet into training bags / gala bags listing everything that should be in there.

We had a referee (also a FINA starter) that had an infinite knowledge of the rules - like there were over 20 ways to get DQed in freestyle. I found the sheet that summarised the main DQs was useful - especially as referees required full FINA wording and the rule number on DQ report slips.

Some things are better left to the coaches. Well meaning parents need to let them do their stuff.

Also sounds like some clubs need to communicate more with squad meetings/group chats. We do have meetings but probably not as frequent as we'd like but lots a gets posted on squad chats, emails and newsletters.

I think very often though to the coaches things are obvious that to parents really aren’t. DH is membership secretary and he gets asked some proper basic questions.

A lot of the coaches are young and have grown up with it. They can’t relate to not knowing what an IM is, for example.

I do think there are some things that become so ingrained it’s easy for coaches to forget it isn’t obvious to parents and newer swimmers - I’ve had other parents ask me what it means when the coach talks about county times. And things like age groups - needing to look potentially 2 years older than your child currently is when looking at qualifying times, and seeded heats meaning that finishing first doesn’t mean you have got a medal.

Do you have squad reps? We had them to send out info to parents in each squad, but they would also meet parents of new squad members and explain how everything works and be available to answer questions.

Good point re DQs. We get some really irate parents and we direct them to coach!

It would be handy for parents to know how it works in advance.

I don't think there's any "just" county. It's a great achievement. But I don't think parents of younger swimmers understand the difference between qualifying for counties bs regionals bs nationals even if it's explained.

Absolutely agree about enjoying it being the main thing. I wish more parents would see it that way. I find though parents always want the next thing and I hear little titters about the coaches not pushing them enough if they don't. Or parents getting irate because at the novice meet they won 4 golds and went to a L3 meet and didn't place. That must suck the enjoyment out of it for the swimmers and that why I was wondering if people felt enough was done to explain the difference between the types of meet and therefore if you progress from novice to L3 and then onto (say) counties that you aren't going to be ranked within that meet what you were at a lower level one iyswim?

I absolutely agree the enjoyment should be paramount but the pressure these poor kids must feel?

And looking at PBs as better than medals too - my eldest was nearly always 4th at age 9/10/11 as there were 3 other boys that were just that bit faster, he was always chuffed with a PB and wasn’t bothered about missing out on medals.

PBs definitely outrank medals. Open meets can vary massively on the level of competition. And they won't get PBs every time either, but they can still have a good race without them by having better starts, underwaters, turns and technique. Bit by bit it will all come together

I think the higher level galas are a shock to parents who aren’t used to it. I also think that parents don’t always realise how much faster national level for example swimmers are than most of the ones that they see training in average clubs.

We had a parent make his club level 14 year old daughter give up because she wasn’t fast enough for his liking even though she was happy and enjoying it. Some people and nuts and you can’t change that sadly. Their kid joins a local swimming club gets a gold medal in a level 4 gala and they think they are destined for the Olympics. It’s utterly bizarre.

Ours do. That's why I often think it's quite strange to hear parents. I wonder if it's that element of micromanaging and just not being that type of person it's odd to me?!

For example. Our coaches will explain that those swimmers who made nationals last year aren't targeting counties. Will explain the problems with frequent tapering and explain about qualifying windows. They explain they'll race it and they'll discuss the counties programme individually but they won't taper and some won't do all events.

And yet - there is still parents moaning that their child isn't being rested and may not get the gold they can get because other clubs are testing them swimmers. That's despite being told explicitly why - we have parents who can't see that making British or home nationals or making a final at these events is a higher thing to aim for than a county gold. They complain how much they train yet want their kid to have it all at the same time.

Absolutely agree with explanations about suitable training wear at the other end. I hadn't thought of that and better explanation re training equipment. Although I think equipment is covered in younger squads as all have have 3 squad meetings a year (1 per phase) and 2-3 1:1s a year each swimmer with their coach.

I still don't know it all after 7 years of ds being a swimmer but I listen to what coaches say and trust they are doing what's best for swimmer and know more than I do!

Some people and nuts and you can’t change that sadly.

That sums it up well 😂😂

I don't think there's any "just" county. It's a great achievement. But I don't think parents of younger swimmers understand the difference between qualifying for counties bs regionals bs nationals even if it's explained

Is there an 'unknown unknown' here for me: I know they have ever harder-to-achieve qualifying times as you move up the levels, and that counties start at 10yo but regionals is 11 (haven't even begun to look at nationals... 😵‍💫). Is there other stuff I'm ignorant of? Are regional warm ups done over hot coals followed by burpees...?
Our club does have swimmers at national level, so I'm assuming I'll be let into the secrets eventually? 😂

I totally agree about it being fun first. It's part of the reason I might roll my eyes and joke about my DDs taking forever in the showers after training, but I only hurry them out if we genuinely have to fly off somewhere else - it's partly the social time that makes the hard work worth it for them. There are too many years (potentially!) stretching in front of us to make it a serious business yet.
The best thing about counties for us this year was DD being amongst the youngest in a 2 year age category (10/11) and it being highly unlikely she'd even make the final as a result. Her goal for last year was just getting a (any!) county time. She managed 2, so had already exceeded. So it was just a fun new experience without any pressure at all: hoodie, hanging out with friends, first time racing LC. She had been pre-warned not to expect any PBs from her coach as hers had been set SC, so was surprised and over the moon to get substantial PBs on both races. It put the icing on an already fantastic cake. Next year expectations will be far greater on her (from herself as much as her coaches), but I really want to maintain the 'fun experience' aspect as much as possible. Because of what she experienced this year, she's really positive about it and looking forward to doing it all over again.

The seeded heats confusion made me laugh! DH can't swim, is not interested in swimming, knows nothing about swimming, and clearly refuses to learn anything about swimming... Over 4 years in and he still judges DDs' successes by where they finish in a heat 😏 I remind him every time he comments (sometimes multiple times in one gala), but he just can't get his head around it. He is otherwise a pretty intelligent person with a very responsible maths-y logic-driven job 🤷🏼‍♀️ he's still sore they didn't pick football or running!

We do have lots from squad reps which comes from the coaches. We do need a few more face to face with parents but it is hard to organise around training and getting the parents to attend. Ironic really that some complain about not knowing stuff but drop and run at training therefore missing out on information.
DS's squad doesn't rest for counties and he's not expected to get PBs as it's the wrong time of the season for him which made me laugh when he accidentally got two.

@SkankingWombat DS's Grandma is convinced DS winning his heat means he has won. We have given up correcting her.

I only have experience of Open Water Nationals so pool Nationals may well be different but I have found once you have swam at an Open Meet at a big 50m pool countries and Regionals end up being just like any other gala apart from you have heats and finals instead of HDW.

DS is very laid back though and they are held at our home pool so I think half the time he doesnt actually realise he is at Counties or Regionals until the coach tells him he has to swim again in the finals.

I have found once you have swam at an Open Meet at a big 50m pool countries and Regionals end up being just like any other gala apart from you have heats and finals instead of HDW

This is absolutely the case imo ^^

Yes to this