Do we continue with piano or not? In two minds and feeling upset

[Bubblyb00b]

Hi, I really need advice from somebody in the know. I'm feeling a bit stuck with this situation.

My DS10 has been having weekly piano lessons for over two years now. He absolutely loves the lessons, he and his teacher have a lot of fun, improvising and learning to play. He seem to be doing well in the lessons (though he can be distracted and unfocused); his teacher says he has perfect hearing and has talent for improvisation. I also have a drum kit so they sometimes play together. DS can easily knock out a tune with just one finger - he even wrote a song himself. This is the good part.

The bad part is - he refuses to practice on his own, every practice is a struggle, and the progress is incredibly slow. I even had to learn his pieces myself to help him (I have a very limited knowledge of piano, more of this later); but practicing is still a nightmare, tears, bargaining, "I already done it" etc. In over two years, he only got Initial Grade , and even that was with the lowest score possible. I know the other kid who started at the same time is him and she is now getting ready for Grade 2. He on the other hand can barely play, doesn't hold his hands right, slouches, bangs the keys, and generally seems uninterested in being proactive- but says he loves the piano. When I suggest we stop the lessons, he gets very, very upset, starts crying and saying he loves music, loves piano, but hates practicing on his own. And that his teacher is saying he is good, so he must be good. But the reality is - after 2 years or lessons and a huge heap of money we have very little to show for it!!!

I would readily give up and pack this in - but the problem is, I was exactly the same at his age, and my parents stopped my piano when I was around 11. And I regretted it ever since, and blamed them for not forcing me to continue!! I have no idea what to do. I feel sad stopping it, but maybe I should for now and start again if he wants it? Or should I persevere? Or change the teacher, find a more strict one? I want him to be able to play and to make use of his creativity but this situation makes me feel like a failure compared to other mum whos' kid practices every morning before school and even plays in school band.

Any advice would be welcome...

It sounds as though your DS is definitely musical but perhaps the piano isn't a good fit for him. At this stage, he may be able to fairly quickly switch to a more sociable instrument that would lend itself to playing in an ensemble so even if the formal practice doesn't happen with great enthusiasm, he will play regularly between lessons. Depending on where you are in the country, a brass band may be able to provide an instrument, regular rehearsals and possibly even starter lessons for very little outlay.

My dd is a little older and churned her way to grade 5 through very little practice and a lot of stress! We discussed with her teacher and agreed we would stop doing the grades and focus on pieces she enjoys. Some weeks she does nothing, other weeks she spends hours practicing or messing around on the piano. She sometimes accompanies friends who are singing. She also has the opportunity to perform 3 times a year which gives her a focus

maybe move away from the grades - a good teacher will be picking fun songs that will still see progression

What?! let him do the lessons for fun, and enjoy them.
Take the pressure off the grades and the practice. He may decide to practice when you don’t force him, he may not but that’s ok. As long as he’s enjoying the lessons.

^ This.
Forget the grades and ditch your competitive mum mode. Who cares if other boys are in the school band, are you envious of that?

Focus on your son and his creativity and enjoyment!

It's such a shame when parents turn music into a competition with other parents, it's so unmusical and uncreative.

We do between 5-15 minutes practise before screens are allowed. Some of this can be improv and composition and some on pieces. Sometimes it's hard to sit them time but then they get engrossed and it goes on a lot longer.

We're slow progresses compared to children that started at the same time but there's no point comparing.

I'd stick with it but don't be afraid to force the issue of practice. The thing with piano is when you're starting a new piece it's like being terrible at something for the first time until it clicks and then it's more fun to practice.

I would always encourage music though so long as it's within budget. Perseverance now gives them a gift and appreciation they can enjoy for life. It's good for brain development too apparently, but can't remember the details of that.

Thing is, practice is really just playing the piano. So if he doesn’t like playing the piano independently, what’s the point? I’d probably be ok if my dc played between lessons but didn’t want to do grades ( just messed around picking out tunes etc) but if there’s no enthusiasm for playing between lessons at all, then I’m not sure I’d be prepared to keep paying.

My DC1 has been having lessons for the last five years. Years of arguing about practising, coaxing, threatening I’d stop paying for lessons. THIS YEAR DC1 started practising voluntarily every day. What changed? A new teacher. A teacher who praised. A teacher who had standards. A teacher who inspired confidence in DC1’s ability.

DC2 started lessons two years ago. Just starting on Grade 1. Same teacher as DC1 advised me not to do exams. To play for enjoyment. To move along quickly instead of trying to perfect the same pieces so they’d be exam ready, DC2 practises while waiting to get ready for school in the morning, while waiting for me to make snacks. Only for five minutes at a time but multiple times throughout the day,

Based on my experience, give it longer, don’t worry about exams and allow music to be enjoyed first and foremost.

I agree that doing garden kills of the joy of making music for too many dc. It's very sad.

I have a 10 year old who plays piano. I agree with the others find music he enjoys playing and encourage 5 minutes here and there. Having a set time eg before screens after school can work for some dc but I believe it makes it another chore for you both and takes the joy away. We initially got a book with very simple Disney pieces in as dd was into Disney at the time. Even now dd will often stop at the piano and play something she likes for just a couple of minutes and then carry on walking past. If she was near the piano on the way to do something or waiting for something for example I would/will just say “let me hear that xyz piece I like” and I do a little dance along to it (and she calls me embarrassing but laughs along) Do that a couple of times a day. No forced sessions.
Can you sign him up to a practice orchestra? There is a few round here that will take dc from grade 1 ability and they each play bits of a piece or whatever so together it sounds good but isn’t too difficult while they are beginners. My dd goes to play with an orchestra once a week and does a few performances a year and this has really helped her improve and encourages her to practice in the weeks running up to it.

He might be better off doing the jazz paino syllabus with another exam board rather than ABRSM, with a different teacher. However, no practice at all would lead to me stopping the lessons.

Thanks everyone. I would just like say that I don't push for grades, I could not care less about them, they are just benchmarks for seeing progress. My main issue is that we have very little progress after 2 years. This is his second teacher, he went to music program before, where he was in a band, doing singing and his main instruments were drums and oboe. He did not like that and was relieved when we quit.

His teacher is very good, young and enthusiastic, they play "interesting" music together (like Nirvana, for example) on drums and piano. Reading threads here I think I will set more of a routine, with short practice sessions at the same time. And will try not to push him/ maybe think of getting some kind of a reward program...

Sorry didn’t have time to read the full thread but it sounds like he doesn’t like the music he has to practice (I’m assuming classical) but does he play the piano outside of lessons for fun at all? I wouldn’t be putting pressure on him to pass grades or play music he doesn’t want to.

Myself and my brother started lessons at the same time as children. I took exams and got as far as passing grade three over a few years (hardly ever practiced though, in used to hate practicing!) but he gave up lessons after a few months and decided to do his own thing. Now as adults we both still play but while I need the sheet music and lots of practice in order to play well, he is like a juke box, just tell him a song and he’ll play it by ear.

I have similar situation with my dd.
She s musical, loves to play hates to practice
P art of that I feel is lacking conerntrafion and focus.
We have a piano homework note book- teacher puts note in what she has to practice
We have a stat chart for practice (10-15 mins 5 days a week
We also moved the piano into the living area so we are beside her when she practices and until she got the habit of what to do for practice i would sit beside her - firstly for all of the 15 mins but as she got into it I would sit with her for part of it.

The fact is also - sometimes doing the stuff you love - is a chore, practising is a chore, boring etc until you master the skill.
Your ds will learn the reward for putting in some effort.
Scales are boring but knowing scales and reading music helps understand chords etc for later fun music !

Honestly at his age I think he can understand that lessons cost time and money, and if he wants you to spend that time and money he needs to "earn" it by practicing. At present he just likes the idea of being able to play the piano, but he doesn't want to put any actual effort in.

I agree with pp that the piano may not be the right instrument for him. As far as I can tell (I'm not musical at all) it seems harder than other instruments - my DS age 13 has been playing for 5 years and is working on grade 6 whereas he's been playing a brass instrument for 2 years and is working on grade 5.

Also, it's easier to play in a band or orchestra with most other instruments. My DS loves playing in a band.

In my experience, that is exceptionally slow progress, but visiting the piano and music in general in a structured way every week will enrich his life and ear forever.

I am surprised to hear that the teacher is happy with how things are going - is it a method of encouragement? The teacher's rates are also fairly low... are they qualified? I wonder if it might be worth taking trial lessons with a few others.

Does your DS have dyslexia or any other learning differences?

Regarding encouraging practice, it should be "little and lots". So even visiting the piano for just 2 min a day - 120 seconds! - will be beneficial. Try starting with something as tiny as that, and even suggest that he is not allowed to do more than that. This builds routine, and the idea that it isn't a big deal to plop down at the piano and play a little. He may even enjoy it, then the length of each session can increase. Perhaps finding another target could help. Does the teacher run class concerts? School opportunities? If he enjoys pop music, could he form a band with some friends?

No sense throwing good money after bad. Stop the lessons. He just likes the attention from the instructor.

Why does he need the grades etc, if he doesn't want to do them. Just let him enjoy the lessons.

My advice is probably not very good, because we were abused as kids and my mother was 'very strict' so there was absolutely no choice about practicing - we did it, and we progressed.

I am now grateful for that. The method used was terrible and costly, but the outcome is that we did not stop and now we are all musicians. Musicians I meet today all say, 'God I wish I could read music' and I feel glad that I was made to persevere.

What would I do if I had your son? I would practice in front of him. Pick out the notes, start putting it together, and hope he comes over and joins in. But I am not a parent and have that terrible background as my only way of looking back at it.

Good luck and I hope he carries on. Hard work though it may be, if he is talented with music, helping him inch forward in ability to express himself through music will be a blessing.

The Rock school grades are really good and in no way technically less difficult than the "classical" grades. The ABRSM jazz grades are also good as they have an improvised element to them which sounds like something he would enjoy.

However they are not necessary for progress. Any good teacher would find pieces to play that interest their students.

For reference there is eloads and loads of music for all different abilities on the Musescore sheet music website. There is a certain amount free but the subscription is peanuts. My DD down loads most of her piano music from there.

I was like your DC. Loved lessons and having fun on the keyboard, improvising etc. But I didn't practice nearly enough, never learned to read music properly, and so didn't progress and eventually gave it up. Looking back, I wish my parents had imposed more discipline on me.

Whereas my DH, as a child, was forced to practice rigorously by strict parents and teachers for many years. He became very proficient. But sadly he hasn't touched a piano for decades now and feels too intimidated to reacquaint himself with it.

So... I think a balanced approach is probably the way to go!!

How much practice is he doing ? Have you tried two 5 minute practice sessions a day. Would there be time for you to do that with him? If that’s do-able I’d try that and if it makes it any less of an ordeal for him, gradually build up a minute at a time till you get to 2 x 10 mins a day.

if that doesn’t help what about a more sociable instrument that would mean he could join a group or orchestra. Piano is such a solitary instrument for a child and it isn’t a good for for many. How about the clarinet?

I can really relate to the situation you are in. I was very musical but incredibly lazy and wouldn’t practice. The positives with your DS is he enjoys his lessons and enjoyment should be the main objective . But £35 pw is a big outlay for a child that won’t practice.

Your husband's parents stole his enjoyment of music, that's very sad

I see this everywhere, parents pushing their kids to practice and do grade after grade. It's very unhelpful in the long run. Competitive parenting is so detrimental to music making and enjoyment.

I think if a child wants to progress they will want to practice on their own. I don't think I ever once had to remind my DD to practice. She just came home from school and did it often for longer than she had been told to by her teacher. If she was learning a tricky piece she would do chunks at a time so only play the first bit over and over, then once she had mastered that move on to the next bit etc. She flew through the first 3 grades then took longer for higher grades. Her teacher was strict and expected a certain amount of practice and progress each month. If your son doesn't want to practice I'd stop the lessons and just let him play around on the piano on his own. Music is like with sport anyone can do it but to be good you have to practice. Not managing to even pass grade 1 after 2 years is not making progress so I'd bin off that teacher, your son has probably got into bad habits, I'd possibly try a strict and traditional teacher who will insist upon practice. If your D's likes drums let him take drum grades.

@Bubblyb00b I do fully understand how you feel.
As I was a 11 years old decades ago, I had an very abusive piano teacher which my parents didn't know how bad the teacher was. It was mainly because my parents were very old fashioned and didn't have much education of their own. I was sent to a teacher recommended by other parents then was moved from previous bad teacher. Then, my nightmare has started there. Because of the teacher thought I was 'too old' 'too lazy' and ' too thick ' to start grade 2 at hers. I was mentally, verbally abused by her for 2-3 years. Of course, I didn't do well on the exam, and more abuse came. Then, for some reasons, she stopped teaching and passed me to another bad teacher. I was even told I was a bad luck so I couldn't go to a supposedly better teacher by this evil woman. Eventually, I was sent to to another bad teacher. This time, the new teacher was quite nice to me and I was there for another 3 years. Sadly, the person didn't teach well, never correct my mistakes correctly and I only found out she wasn't qualified at the time many years after that.
Then, I was lucky enough to have an excellent teacher when I was 20 years old. Sadly, because of years of poor teaching, lack of solid foundation but solid bad habits and poor musically rhythm. I took me many years to relearn the piano and finally achieved grade 8 in my 30s.
Therefore, I would say, please give some space for child to explore and have a proper chat with the teacher or potential teachers. Encourage your child to keep his musical journey. Every kids learn thing differently. Perhaps, try to enjoy playing music together?