Poolside Chat - parents of competitive swimmers continued

[Glittertwins]

Getting a bit close to the end of the previous one!

Hi. Can I join, if only to ask the parents of any other para swimmers at what age the training intensified. My son is classified but the nature of his condition means tiredness and pacing is a significant problem. He is currently training only 3 hours a week - it recently went up from 2 hours, but just getting around is exhausting as he already uses nearly 2 times the amount of energy as an abled bodied athlete just to be. It feels like a completely different sport when he swims multiclassification events with those who don't have the same disability or even type of disability as others can train 8 plus hours a week whereas his body just won't work for that long (even if he doesn't agree the times say otherwise). He can also only really manage one race per session if he is to have any chance of racing at all, the recovery is just too long.

Hi- yes there is a parent of a para swimmer here, she'll be around soon.
How old is your DC?

I'm here

I think it depends on type of disability and you do need to build up and more slowly than other swimmers.

What age is your swimmer? I'm guessing by your questions he has a neurological muscular type disability?

At 11 my ds swam 2 times a week for an hour.

Now at 18 he swims 9 times a week for 2 hours and 3 hours gym.

However he also has to use a roller during sessions, sometimes get out early because his muscles have had it! And he uses fins for kick and often does a lot of pull as his disability is mainly in his legs.

What classification is you DS?

It's really hard to judge multi class because it's all based on world record for that classification but your swimming against club swimmers with various classifications.

The multi class rankings aren't really an indicator either of how well your swimmer is doing in their class.

I'm more than happy to try and answer any questions.

My son is an S9.

My son is much younger, and yes had a neuromuscular condition. It affects all 4 limbs but his legs much more than his arms. He has a very weak core. He qualified for the national championships at Coventry but to be ho

Sorry he qualified for the national junior para championships at Coventry last weekend but it didn't really work for him. Ironically his local club is far more inclusive, and welcoming. We both find para events difficult which is why I am not sure if he is too young to compete as a para, as even with a classification there seem to be very few youngsters who have neuro disabilities trying to train with those whose disabilities affect them in different ways. For us so far he competes better in normal age groups in our county both as regards results, enjoyment and times. He's always last but that doesn't matter. He wasn't last in the multi class at Coventry, but it was the second para event he's done and I just wonder if it gets easier as others a couple of years older can train 8-9 hours a week when for us 2-3 knocks him out.

What's worth baring in mind is that at para events they generally swim open age as well. I know junior nationals they swim age groups.

So you'll always find pretty much the younger swimmers will get less points but that's because they are younger. The national programme has a points progression qualifying system because you wouldn't expect an 11/12yo to be swimming the same as a 15yo, 18yo or 25yo - even with same classification.

And swimmers with missing limbs will develop differently to those with neuromuscular conditions because co ruination isn't affected and their disability has different barriers to overcome. (Eg balance, swimming with equal power through the water)

Obviously at standard galas where everyone is swimming as AB you are swimming against swimmers your age.

My ds also has his arms affected and his coordination is poor but swimming has helped - but as I said he just developed slower.

Does your ds attend the county and regional para training? These are always good for those starting off as well. I've found the sessions where it's all para swimmers great for ds because he's the only para swimmer in his club!

What age is your ds?

But yes I do think those with neuromuscular conditions are a smaller cohort even nationally.

My ds is an S9 and the 3 other S9s who he's similar level too all have a problem with an arm (missing or developed incorrectly). They can out kick him which affects lots of elements like turns etc. but eventually as they've all developed and found their way of swimming it's evened out overall across the whole race and stroke. Interestingly though they are all strongest at different strokes!

Really you do have to focus on where they are performing in their class rather than MC points if they are interested in that level of development. That's just a system for racing but as they go through the programme and race different events you'll see that para swimmers who compete even at highest level like worlds won't make medals in MC events.

Does your club have a separate disability squad or does he train with AB swimmers?

Many thanks. The club has a disability squad, he doesn't train with ABs.

I take the point about different disability. On class he will go down as he ages and his muscles get less strong. That's another story but he's young enough that he needs reclassifying yearly.

And I couldn't care less about points, again too young to be an issue. More that a 15 year old with one arm can train 10-12 hours a week. My son can't do that and that isn't about age, it is about disability. He already needs twice the normal calorific intake to a peer just to move due to muscle inefficiency. He'll always be slim but that does mean he'll also always tire as his muscles cannot work more effectively.

My ds also has a degenerative condition and is losing range of movement in key joints (hit feet and hips!) as well as losing muscle mass in his legs.

That does make it harder. But what we found helped was incorporating his physio etc into pre pool and land training sessions which the club were very supportive of.

For ds it's a lot of upper body work because it's his legs that are getting weaker and his hands. It's a lot of working around the disability. Unfortunately there's some strokes that doesn't work for because we don't undo things that can't be undone!

My ds used to lay over a gym ball and practice the coordination at home!!! They need a LOT more muscle memory work!

He is a freestyler.

Classification usually covers all these things.

Swimmers all tire differently dependent on their disability the same way AB swimmers will dependent on size and muscle mass which is all related to puberty too.

My ds got stronger after puberty which is when he started to be able to counteract the muscle wasting with building up those unaffected or affected to a lesser degree.

There are things he can't counteract such as streamline because he has contractures of the arms and kick because his feet don't really move (his left foot pretty much has no movement). But by building stronger shoulders he can counteract these better.

And even at the highest level they train different hours. Ds recently went on a camp and was in a lane with VI swimmers. Speed wise he was with them. Distance wise for sets he swam less because his muscles can take less iyswim? So he'd have a rest for the odd 100 for example.

It's a very different journey and knowing where you are as a para swimmer is difficult. But for ds that built a resilience that as he's got older has benefitted him in the sport more than the AB swimmers that were excellent from a young age and never learned from the start that training is tough!

Are you happy to share your ds classification?

Also because my ds has a rare condition he wasn't diagnosed until later (14). Therefore swam as an AB swimmer for years - always last!

He got classified in 2021 at 17yo (covid obviously delayed things!).

So he really was late into the sport!

Has anyone had experience of a swimmer swapping to water polo? Is the fact they have been a swimmer actually of any advantage? Also if anyone knows anything about water polo is lack of height a disadvantage?

I haven't had experience. But I would imagine being a fast swimmer helps and excellent ability to tread water for a long time!

I'd also think from watching it another criteria would be a willingness to be bopped over the head 20 times an hour 🫣🤣

Is your ds thinking of switching?

How is his open water going? Is he competing regionals this year?

@itsgettingweird DS would be fine with the physical aspect he used to love rugby before having to give it up for swimming. Yes he is considering it but I'm not sure if he is just in an end of season slump and will feel the love for swimming again after the summer break.

He is doing open water regionals but I cant see him making Nationals this year. Last year a lot of kids in our region who qualified for nationals on pool times didnt bother entering regionals but this year they all seem to be going so making top 3 in regionals is going to be a tall order.

Yes I hear a lot of parents and swimmers saying the pool time and top 3 in regionals system is a problem.

Mainly because it makes the numbers qualifying so minimal.

I don't know much about the system but it's often that you can qualify for it via an 800m pool time and then they swim regionals and qualify too. I can never work out if it's the qualifying pool time that bothers them, the fact they qualify and then swim regionals and those in top 3 are same people so more can't qualify or something I'm missing?!

From an outsider it seems they'd qualify anyway if they didn't have pooltimes but it does seem odd you can qualify for. 5k OW swim on an 800m pool swim?!

I have enough trouble getting my head around para stuff 🤣

Haha yeah its a bit complicated but if the top 3 at regionals also qualified via pool times that means no kids without the pool qualifying time get to go.

It has to be long course pool time as well so its tricky for some kids to get due to lack of long course distance races at galas. Also DSs club dont tend to put boys into long course distance races until about 13/14 so DS has only ever swam 1 long course distance race.

DS enjoys open water for the fact its a break from lane swimming and he quite enjoys the pushing and shoving at the start 🙈

Yes I think pack swimming is very much something you enjoy or don't.

It looks horrifying to an outsider but I know swimmers who get a real adrenaline rush from it at the start and it's what helps them race well.

I know swimmers who've switched to waterpolo but still do the galas.

Their pool training has certainly helped and because it's team based, the swimmers have made international teams (even though they only started playing polo mid-teens).

My brother was a swimmer and played waterpolo as well.

Breaststroke swimmers seem to do particularly well - probably to do with that kick.

Thank you, unfortunately breaststroke is his worst stroke!

He is starting to have second thoughts about water polo mainly just due to the length of time it would take to get there. He is used to everything being on his doorstep.

He does want to do something alongside swimming though. When he moved to the squad he is in the head coach at the time said it was 100% attendance only so he had to give up two team sports he enjoyed. That coach has left now and I think the new coach would be ok with him missing 1 evening a week to go back to one of his team sports.

Wow 100% attendance is strict!

Ds squad is 9 swim sessions and 3 LT.

Squad criteria is to attend 8 swimming and 2 LT minimum.

So some swimmers attend athletics/ running alongside.

That's the same for all performance squads. Criteria is 6/7, 7/8, 8/9 and only missing 1 LT session from those available for the squad.

Ds tends to attend them all as he doesn't do other sports but every few weeks he'll miss 1 and every few months he'll miss a day or 2.

They take it as overall attendance which I think is about 93% or something?! (I probably should check but ds attendance is fine so haven't bothered!).

The only squad criteria is 100% of key sets. So that means not planning athletics or something for a key set session - not you can't be ill and miss it!

It's great to see your ds wants to pick up another sport. I always worry about the younger swimmers who go all or nothing with swimming.

I think it's different at ds age - he knows he wants to swim over everything else (and is still convinced he's going to paraympics some day 🫣🤣🤷‍♀️)

Hello how many swim sessions does your ds squad swim? he's only 11/12?

That should say I think criteria is 93% attendance.

Ds attendance is something like 99.2% of the sessions he can attend.
For example the 2.5 weeks he was away they didn't class him as not attending!

We visited the pool at Bath Uni a little while ago and watched a water polo team training - interesting to see them swimming widths of the pool in all four strokes but using breaststroke kick for everything.

I think your DS should give it a try - he might love it (or he might not!). If he enjoys a bit of physicality then it might be his thing.

We were lucky in having some pragmatic coaches that encouraged doing different sports in addition to swimming whilst DS was younger. Nobody demanded 100% attendance, but you did have to make sure you did all the mornings and the key meets.