Should I let DS give up DofE bronze

[Odilon]

DS 13, yr 9, summer baby so not 14 until end of the summer term. Also currently undergoing ADHD assessment. School is one of those where DofE is semi compulsory, they do army cadets and DofE combined for one period per week (though this stops next year once they’re onto GCSEs). Only one kid in his year not doing it - don’t know why or what this child does during that period.

Basically we have paid the full fee for Bronze but DS is now saying he doesn’t want to do it at all. They all signed up at school but he’s done basically nothing so far. His skills and physical sections are activities which he would be doing anyway, but despite our best efforts we’ve struggled to find him anything to do for volunteering - people not responding, or saying they only have opportunities over the summer etc - and his dad & I aren’t really enmeshed in the local community enough to know anyone that can help so it’s been super stressful. Even the skills & physical teachers don’t seem interested and I’ve sent multiple emails about them signing him off but never get a reply.

For DS though he is freaking out about the expedition. He’s been put in a group with two friends who are also ND and not really coping with the putting up of tents etc, leaving my DS to do more than his fair share when it’s not something he’s ever done before. We’re not outdoorsy and I have no idea how to help him. I’ve suggested he talk to the teacher about it but apparently she’s said the groups can’t be changed, so he won’t . The fourth boy in the group is apparently ‘very bossy’ (DS’s words) and DS doesn’t like him.

He now says he wants to give it up and has told the teacher this. She told him okay, she can’t force him, but that we have to confirm in writing that we’re happy for him to withdraw because we’ve already paid, but I don’t know what to do. He’s absolutely dreading the walking, the camping overnight, the No Phones rule (which personally I think is crazy) and tbh I’m pretty worried about it as well.

But I’m not keen on him giving things up just because it’s a bit daunting. I don’t think it sets kids up well for life to do that (speaking from my own personal experience) and I think he’ll get a sense of achievement from having completed it even if he doesn’t enjoy it. He’s the kind who would just stay on his phone or computer and never talk to an adult if he could get away with it, so I was keen for him to do this to get out of his comfort zone a bit.

We also can’t really afford to throw away the £150 fee that we’ve paid, but DS says he’d rather get a job and pay us back this money. Which is all well and good but idk what jobs he could do at 13 either (no paper rounds available nearby - I’ve checked) and he’ll barely have time once yr10 starts, with his other extracurriculars as well.

TL;DR - should I force suspected ADHD DS13 to continue with DofE bronze for ‘character building’ reasons and because we’ve already paid, when he doesn’t want to do it and it’s causing me stress? Also - does anyone know, for the overnight camping are the teachers/leaders usually nearby? I’m ok with them walking unsupervised but he feels very young to be camping overnight without adults. Thanks.

I'd take it a bit at a time - the camping isn't till the summer is it, so loads of time to get more used to the idea. For volunteering, my ds did his DoE during lockdown, and his volunteering was online with Zooniverse. He signed up for counting a particular cell type and really enjoyed it as they sent updates about how it contributed to science. Loads of different things on there.

I think though, maybe you could push yourself a bit out of your comfort zone a bit and start taking him walking, borrow a tent from someone to practice with and demonstrate a bit of a spirit of 'lets push our boundaries and try it'.
With signing off his skills/activities, surely he just prints out a letter saying 'ds attended a one hour class in x on these dates' and takes it in for them to sign?

Actually they do the expedition in mid May with a practice in April so there’s not that much time. And his sports coach took one of the forms months ago but he’s since moved up to a different team and the guy won’t respond to my questions about getting the form back or passing it on to the new coach. It’s very frustrating.

However I had such a viscerally negative reaction to your suggestion that I do some walking and camping with him that I think you’ve possibly helped me answer my own question, lol. My excuse is I’m 50+ with bad knees but even so! Anyway I’ve emailed his teacher because there’s a chance he might go to her again today and say he’ll do it after all (because I got a bit annoyed with him about it this morning) but then if I relent, he’ll want to change his mind again. So she deserves to know what the issues are and why we’re vacillating. It may be that she can change his group after all and/or allay some of his and my worries about it.

Thanks for your response though, it helped clarify things in my mind.

I dropped out of DofE bronze for not dissimilar reasons - the camping being the major one. 25 years on, I'm definitely successful in my career (which involves lots of travel but does not ever necessitate camping) and no one has ever asked me why I didn't get my DofE bronze award. I also got into a top university without it. Some people enjoy camping and orienteering and cooking sausages over a fire. Others don't.

Our local neighbourhood has a group calling themselves wombles. They organise litter picking at weekends and often include parents with young children.
Is there anything like that need you he could offer to help.
One of the organisers could sign to confirm his attendances.

Oh yeah I know, and I’d have been ok if he’d said at the start of the year that he didn’t fancy it but he’s been absolutely insisting that he did want to do it until very recently. And it’s a bit annoying after we’ve a) paid
and b) invested a huge amount of time and effort into scrabbling around for a volunteering thing he could do and bothering other people about it. I’m not thinking it’ll help him on his CV or whatever (though I’m sure it wouldn’t hurt). It’s more about the principle of not seeing things through.

You've already paid the money so it's gone. Nothing you can do about it. I did DofE through to gold and hated it. Only continued because my parents made me. If he hates it, let him stop.

I’d no intention of forcing him to go on and take silver and gold. He was clear from the outset that he didn’t want that and that’s fine. But didn’t you get any sense of achievement from at least completing the bronze even if you didn’t enjoy it?

I actually felt pretty epic when I got my Gold and still have the certificate up in my office now. Plus I got to take my dad to the Palace for the day which was brilliant. (It was 27 years ago and he only said last week that he still had his 'palace' suit..!) However I didn't enjoy it at all, especially the camping bit and would have stopped had my parents given me the option.

I suppose that's a very good point.....
I didnt hate it enough to point blank refuse and so I ended up going all the way. So maybe they did a favour.. ?

I volunteer at my local ParkRun and we always have DofE people there for the volunteering thing. Worth thinking about if he decides to continue.

Sorry, v crap reply..

It's a shame that you had to pay up in the first place. So many schools insist on it. I had to go into DD's school and was bullied into getting her to do it. It was ridiculous. Personally I would never want to sleep in a tent either, there are perfectly good alternatives available. DD2 was only one of two who didn't do it that year. DD1 did her Bronze and detested the entire thing. They had to go and collect her by car, when she refused to walk any further.

They both did volunteering and work experience off their own back, do a lot of sport and exercise. It didn't make any difference to their Uni choices or work applications. DofE is highly overrated IME.

I don't think using 2 activities he already does, and his parents sorting the volunteering is going to give him much benifit.
The expedition group sounds like a poor combination.
I don't think he is going to get anything out of any of it.
imo, it is the trying new things, organizing things yourself, taking yourself out of your comfort zone bits of DoE that are the benefits, rather the actual doing.
That said, it sounds like the expedition is quite a long way out of his comfort zone, and perhaps not something to try right now.

The 150 is gone whether he completes things or not. What is best for him right now?

My own DS is ND and got a lot of benefit from DofE, but he wanted to do it and they were well supported. He didn't do much over his existing activities and he did need support, for volunteering I spotted an ad and walked with him to the local charity shop, and he did the rest.

I’m not keen on him giving things up just because it’s a bit daunting.

He's not even diagnosed yet. His abilities and disabilities have not been scoped and right now his whole life probably feels more than a bit daunting. The school doesn't sound a like a very good fit and if he is still going to school (not refusing) and doing a couple of activities he's actually doing OK.

So if your DS is stressing over DofE then I don't think it's a priority right now.

So once he's in the DofE system he has until he is 25 to complete it.
There is no rush.

There are lots of volunteering things he can do at home.
Reading for books on tape.
The crisp packet project(making blankets from crisps packets) etc.

Officially DofE is supposed to be 14+ but can be done with peers if in the school year.

I'd let him drop it if he wants to.

The school is an excellent fit. They have been incredibly supportive of us pursuing the diagnosis and there are a great many pupils there with additional needs. Clearly another child was allowed to opt out of DofE for whatever reason with no issues, and DS said the teacher was completely unfazed when he told her he didn’t want to continue. They definitely strongly encourage them to do it and do enrol them as a default but it’s clearly fine to say no.

He loves the school and there’s no question of refusal (no idea where you got that). I suspect this is mostly about the fact that he hasn’t been put in a group with his best friends for the expedition because he was fine with it up until then. If he was with someone whom he felt he could have a laugh with, we probably wouldn’t be getting any of this angst from him about it.

I just feel it’s important to teach him the importance of committing to things at the most minimal level, and also the value of money. So whenever he’s wanted to drop any hobbies or classes or activities in the past, my default position has always been that he has to complete the period of time we’ve paid for (usually until the end of term) and then he can stop if he wants to. So the equivalent in this case was for me to say, ‘Okay, you don’t need to do silver or gold, but bronze is paid for so you need to do it.’

With some other things, he’s done this with a lot of moaning and it’s been a relief for us all when he could finally leave. Other times, just saying ‘No, you have to do it for X more weeks/months’ has pushed him through some little hurdle of self-doubt and he’s then chosen to continue with the activity and excelled at it. It can go either way and so I like to give him that chance. But if he’s really going to be miserable and every aspect of it is stressful, then I agree it’s probably a sunk cost fallacy.

Volunteering is easy at this level, just get him to volunteer in the school library after school once a week or help with a lunchtime club for younger students doing something he's good at/enjoys.

Why are you emailing teachers to sign things off for him?? Get him to go and speak to them himself - they may want to see some evidence.

Tell him on the camping trip to just let the bossy one lead and to direct on how to put up the tents - having a bossy/leader type can be really useful when you're not that keen and don't know what you're doing! There will also be a practice so they can just learn how to do it then.

I would tell him you want him to complete this but he doesn't have to do any more after.

OP - my son doesn’t really want to do it either , however I think that he should . He has done nothing about the volunteering or skills but has a sport that he’s doing the six months for .

My son is pretty shy and worried about the expedition and he’s only camped twice . He isn’t diagnosed ND .

I have not been trying to organise stuff for him though I have made suggestions . I really want him to find the courage to do it himself

As others have said they have till 25 to get there and I’m hopeful my boy will pull it all together rather than be left behind by his year .

If it goes well I think the expedition could be a really formative experience.

I don’t think my boy should give up before he even tries but I have no intention of signing him up for the silver !

I think the character building bit is about pushing kids to follow through on things when they are motivated but feeling a bit daunted. Your description doesn't sound like that but that he isn't motivated and just doesn't want to do it at all. I would let him give it up if you think he won't regret it.

I also dropped out of D of E bronze aged 16 due to the impending horror of the expedition. It was a great relief and had no impact on my future career - I still managed to get on to a competitive course at a good university without it, and to be honest was only doing it as I had convinced myself I would never get into university for the degree I wanted without it (which was clearly wrong). I have never since felt the need to walk for miles carrying a rucksack or to camp in a tent, and do not feel
I have missed out.
You indicated he is doing some extracurricular activities anyway, which would fulfil the skills element - I think if he is engaging in some kind of hobby/ activity that allows him not to be on a screen then I'd let him drop it. It's definitely not everyone's cup of tea - the thought of being cold, wet, dirty, uncomfortable and miles away from hot running water still fills me with dread.

Yes, see, this is how I felt about it too except that it was never made clear to us that the kids were expected to take the initiative on organising it all. Tbh with the volunteering I have no idea how he would have done so, as we had no leads and had to try to reach out through local FB groups and acquaintances. All to no avail, as it’s turned out. Maybe people would have been more responsive if we’d turned it over to him rather than hassling them (as it felt like) ourselves. But he’s shy and getting increasingly awkward around adults. I just hoped this would help him get over that a bit if we just kind of gave him a metaphorical shove over the threshold.

To those asking why I’ve been emailing, it’s partly the above and partly to do with the sport part. He was in a feeder squad and had handed the forms to the coach of that team (who’s also the overall head coach) who had agreed to do it. But then very shortly afterwards, DS was promoted to the next team up which is coached by someone else at a different location. When we met the new coach, I said ‘Oh btw, Head Coach has DS’s DofE forms - shall I ask him to give them to you?’ But she gave some non committal response and I didn’t hear anything else. There’s never any opportunity to talk to them at the sessions and if you try, they always say ‘Email me’, so I did, again with no response.

OP if I was you I would speak to whoever is organising the expedition and see what the process is on the expedition is if it all goes wrong for your son taking into account his needs and the pending ADHD … is poor that you weren’t told it was for the kids to organise themselves which would concern me about how organised they are in other things

My on feeling is that I want my son to have a go .. if it’s a disaster and he doesn’t complete it I don’t intend to force him . As much can be learnt from failure as success provided it’s handled well

So... First thing he has till he's 25 to complete. However most of the cost you've paid will relate to doing his expedition this year in school.

Therefore I'd forget the volunteering right now if it isn't working out for him. The other two sections are easy to sign off if he is doing the work. I can send you pics of the forms if you need them as they are generic. They can also log onto the system using your sons DofE number and complete it there (though the paper form might be easier for the reluctant sign off!) Help him get these signed off it might motivate him to continue.

Expedition wise I would definitely talk to the teacher in charge of DofE and if need be get the SENDCo involved with sorting out the grouping. I'd have thought they'd rather relook at things than have him drop out. 'No you can't change groups just because you don't like a kid' is standard practice but 'combination of SENDs is causing an issue in this group' should be addressed.

At the end of the day if he's adamant he doesn't want to finish I wouldn't force him - but I would try and address some of these issues first before confirming the drop out.

I don't think he's ready.
Have to agree that doing activities he's already doing and you organising his volunteering isn't really helping with independence and resilience.
I'd check with the providers and see how long he has to finish it. He may find this all a lot more rewarding in a year or two.
The exped doesn't sound promising tbh. He needs to be part of a team with mixed skills and who can work together - otherwise it's just going to be a miserable slog.

Thanks, this pretty much exactly what I plan to do. The organising teacher is calling me later and I will try to tactfully explain to her the concerns about the group. I’d tried to get DS to tell her this was an issue but I think he doesn’t want to be seen as complaining about his friends especially if they have SENs.

I imagine that she’s put this group together thinking that the ‘bossy’ one and my DS (who can hide his issues pretty well and whom I know she’s identified as having ‘leadership qualities’ from the cadets thing) would balance out the difficulties that the other two might be having. But I agree it’s no good if it’s just stressing him out.

If told him there was no rush to complete it but he understandably doesn’t want to delay doing the expedition and be forced to do it next year instead with the year group below whom he doesn’t know. So I suggested just getting the expedition out of the way this year and then doing the rest at a more leisurely pace, maybe over the summer for the volunteering when there might be more options. But the expedition is the hurdle in his mind right now. I’ll see what the teacher says tonight.

Thanks all for your help.

Both DSs refused point blank to do DoE. Not their thing. School not best pleased but couldn't force them.

This is why you should make him do it. The no phones rule is so that the kids will actually engage with one another and focus on the tasks at hand. At 14, he's old enough to cope surely? Or you do have a problem. All you're teaching him is that when things feel too hard, you just give up.