Spring 22 music thread

[thirdfiddle]

Roll up roll up for a new term of music parenting! This is a long meandering series of threads for all things musical. Please do say hi if you're new or lurking.
Delighted to see on the last thread that musical things are up and running again in the new term despite some covid nerves. Here's hoping for a smooth normal as possible run.

Horsey, following a tip from here we got DD a rather posh looking concert skirt by dint of getting a ballet character skirt without ribbons. They're cheap and came in free choice of waist and length. Fewer suppliers for older kids but some on eBay do them right up to adult sizes. I think separates and skirts are good for growing kids as they can wear them with different tops and still work at different lengths.
Have previously had success with small adult sizes in H&M.

Horsey, my 14 year old got a very nice full length black jumpsuit from M&co which she wore for her last concert- it was £7.99 and very appropriate- but jumpsuit might not work ? Dd2 now wants a full length concert skirt for choir (apparently cooler than the trousers she had for this course) so might consider the ballet skirts- thanks !

Thanks for that tip, I've actually made one of those character skirts for youngest dd ( no longer into ballet) it was the sewing on of the ribbon that was the pain in the backside, the actual skirt was easy. Hadn't thought of separates, definitely a good idea. Will also look at h and m.

I'll look at the jumpsuit option too, I think it can look lovely, only less practical when going to the bathroom!!

Hello, new poster to the thread!

I was wondering how old your children were when they started instrumental lessons?

And also, has anyone’s child done the Kindergarten course at Guildhall? My DS has got a place this year (he has just turned 4). He is very musical and I’ve been wondering whether it would frustrate him to have to wait until the third year of the course (year 2) to start learning an instrument, or is this not an issue?

(For background, DH is a concert pianist and I’m a former orchestral wind player, but we both started unusually late so aren’t sure what’s best for DS. We are terrified of putting him off with our own over enthusiasm 🤣).

Welcome @vatacito - how lovely that you want to pass on music to your child. Our experience is that most of the children dd meets have parents who are musicians- it’s clearly in the blood.

I suspect we’re a bit behind for your purposes. Dd2 is now 12 - shared lessons on flute from year 3 in state primary (fairly standard for first music experience I think but not for those who want to do it as a career). Took up cello in year 5 and bassoon middle of year 6- just before lockdown. Joined CYM year 5.Voice lessons from this autumn.

A slow starter by most standards here but has taken grade 7 flute, and is grade
5 on flute bassoon and voice- 5 theory year 6. She’s been lucky to have great opportunities- cym then nco projects and now national youth choir too.. but I suspect there are many who have started younger and progressed much faster- even bassoonists seem to start young now on those mini things. But she does love it and that’s what matters to us.

We did try her on piano younger- it was a disaster but that’s probably because we aren’t musical and can’t help!

@minisnowballs thanks for your reply - your DD sounds like she is doing brilliantly. DH and I were both 9 when we started lessons at normal state schools from unmusical families and managed to make careers out of it (easier for me as my instrument can’t really be played much younger, DH on the other hand is exceptional) so nothing to hold your DD back if she is committed!

We are aware that our kids (also have baby DD) are in completely different positions from us and want them to be able to make the most of that, without putting any pressure on them, which is tricky!

DS is really keen to learn a string instrument now, which neither of us play, but I think waiting a couple of years (til he’s about 6) probably isn’t a bad idea?

Welcome @vatacito Mine were 7 when they started piano but had done various singing, kids music things first. Did recorders/ ukulele then started woodwind at 9/10. We had a lovely teacher who let my elder dd try flute/ clarinet/ oboe/bassoon and she made her choice that way. I think being exposed to lots of music is good. Live concerts where they can see the instruments and even speak to the musicians are great. ( Maybe less chance of that now). Some people start strings really young but unless you want to have the next Nicola benedetti, I'm not convinced starting at 4 as opposed to six makes a lot of difference. I think the perfect age is when they are ready. I'm teaching a friend's 6 year old recorder and she is definitely ready, soaking up everything. I think parental involvement makes a big difference so I'm sure yours will have the best chance to find what they love.

Hi @Vatacito welcome! DD and her BFF both started violin at a Suzuki studio when they were quite young - BFF started at 4.5 and DD about a year later. It was a great way to learn in the early years as lots of focus on tone quality, intonation, posture and good set up and has served them both really well (both moved away from Suzuki around age 8). Now almost 15, both are on course to be professional musicians. BFF who started a year earlier is still a little ahead but only noticeable to those in the know- they are both tackling big repertoire and really, by the time they are both auditioning for conservatoires nobody will care! The main thing for both girls was the level of parental support and involvement. And of course their own keen interest and commitment. So your DC is well primed to do well whether they start at 4 or 6- just depends when you are all ready to start on the journey.

Also I wouldn't worry about not specialising on an instrument on the Guildhall programme until later. DD was at junior guildhall for a couple of years and the kids that came through that programme were fantastic musicians. They are excellent at keeping them engaged through those early years. Guildhall is a very special place too x

Sorry, she is grade 5 CELLO, voice and bassoon, vatacito (not that it really matters - these other people who have now replied on the thread know far more and are much more helpful!)

Good luck with it all...

DD2 has returned from her first youth choir course absolutely buzzing (and the 'sharing' concert was fabulous)... she has really lucked out getting into that, especially given her lack of experience.....Now just got to get her to come down to earth and work on some cello arpeggios for her lesson on Weds.

That sounds fab mini! Good luck with the scales.

Hi vatacito, interesting question.

I have an early starter DD (violin from 3, now 10) and a later starter DS (piano from 7, now 12), and can't contribute any useful information as such based on them. They've variously caught up with each other and second instruments have overtaken first instruments according to where they put the work in. DD who was keener to start remains the keener of the two so it didn't put her off. I don't think the very early start particularly advantages her either, except in that she's had more years of fun playing music. She does a middling amount of work and makes steady progress and enjoys it. If she wanted to be on a pro track (she doesn't) at some point she would have to put in really hard work and the kids who do that overtake her even if they start much later.

If we lived close to one of the kindergarten type programmes I'd certainly have been tempted, it sounds like a great foundation. My instinct is your DS wouldn't be frustrated because he'd already be doing musical things. But you know your child best. I guess if he started to get really impatient you could always change plans.

It's interesting to see everyone's dc's history with their instruments.

For my dd (pretty non-musical parents) she started piano in year 3 having done nothing before, then started cello (group lessons) in year 4 and moving to individual lessons in year 5. Started singing lessons in year 7 although had been singing in choirs before then. All through school. Now in year 8 she's about to start piano g7 is about halfway to taking her cello g5 and has just taken singing g2.

She knows that she doesn't want a career in music but is passionate about it as a hobby.

Mine started at 7, did grade 8 at 15 (so not particularly early). Specialist school for 6th form and off to conservatoire in September if he actually passes some A levels. He’s got hopes of becoming professional so we’ll see how it goes.

It It's interesting when people talk about what age DC get to grade 8.it really varies by area as well though because our council area is only really getting going with encouraging progress above what is required for school exams. There is a great group of tutors but parental support isn't always there. People can't afford lots of exams and extras like courses. Also it wouldn't be seen as a priority. I don't think there is anyone in the regional orchestra currently with grade 8. It takes a long time to lift aspirations.

Yes, our experience of the local council area is that it is very similar horsey... both Dds started at our local council music service and enjoyed it a lot, but reached the top orchestras in it very quickly. Most of the children with high grades are either in private schools (not ours) or do their music at a JD, CAT or one of the music services in more affluent areas.

There are children at their school who are early/high achieving musicians, but they mainly have their lessons outside school and not from the local council . Grade 8s, where achieved, are mostly in Sixth Form, which is great but very different from the local private schools etc. So although we are in London - full of very high achieving young musicians - they are overwhelmingly concentrated in certain places.

A quick question - I keep seeing the letters 'JD' mentioned on here. What do they stand for? And, for that matter, CAT?

JD (Junior Department - of a music conservatoire or similar), CAT (Centre for Advanced Training) - similar kind of thing but not attached to a music conservatoire, but similar govt funding available- I only know this because every time I've had to fill in an application form for anything it splits it out and I can never find where DD2 studies (it's a CAT, it turns out)...

On that note, I've just applied for NYO inspire for her, having read this article in the Times, which was mildly depressing, but I guess it's worth a go.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/national-youth-orchestra-the-fight-for-music-in-schools-q3kqvtpln

Ah! Didn't know either of these things existed! Or the government funding! Closeted away in the private school/chorister bubble...

As for ages of starting, DS started piano aged 8, and at aged 12 is grade 7. Started French horn aged 9 and now about grade 5. Started singing aged 7, no exams until grade 5 at 11, and grade 6 aged 12.

To add another acronym to the mix CATS are funded by an MDS (which is the same way that specialist music & ballet schools such as Chethams, Wells, Purcell & Elmhurst etc are funded.

I think we’re quite fortunate with where we live. The child did go to private school but his out of school music was the local ones. We live in a county border so he did music centre in one county and youth orchestra in the other, both weekly. Then he did county ensembles with the first county. So sort of double the opportunity and playing a rarer instrument helps too.

I love reading your posts, my musician is at university now but they bring back memories. Just a heads up though, despite being mid 20's I'm still paying out! Her violin is sponsored and her tuition part of her degree but performance outfits, baroque bow, and various stuff for singing (her primary instrument is voice)

Whereas opportunities are limited where we are. Our local youth orchestra disbanded quite a while ago. There are various excellent county based activities but they are located for children in our town at quite a distance with little to no public transport.

Our local high school does not offer A level music and neither does the large FE college, it only offers Btec in popular music so the only option for A level is private or to travel 12 miles to the 6th form college in a neighbouring local authority.

I've just stumbled across this thread in Active Threads. It looks very interesting and helpful! My nine-year-old DS is preparing for his grade 2 piano and I'm not really looking forward to it as it was such a lot of work for me to prepare him for his grade 1. He got a merit but I think he would have got a distinction with a bit more time to prepare. I want it to be a more pleasant experience for us both this time round! Does anyone have any tips for making it easier? I saw someone mention aural apps upthread. Also his sightreading is his weakest area; is it just practice practice practice that is needed?

Mine have private lessons but aren't at private school and their schools have no ensembles; but we are lucky enough to have a local music centre with ensembles from beginner through to county level. I am noticing the numbers in the ensembles are really down at the moment post pandemic though, has anyone else got that?

Hi StuntNun! My best advice is unhelpful at this point - start exam prep later when they're well on top of the grade. But he's that bit older and has done it once before, hopefully that will make it all easier. Sight reading yes, lots of practice really. We liked the Improve Your Sight Reading books for exam prep. But any reading helps - he could even go back and play through his own beginner books if you still have them. And really, a distinction isn't worth getting bored practising the same music for even longer if they've had enough and are ready to move on.