Spring 22 music thread

[thirdfiddle]

Roll up roll up for a new term of music parenting! This is a long meandering series of threads for all things musical. Please do say hi if you're new or lurking.
Delighted to see on the last thread that musical things are up and running again in the new term despite some covid nerves. Here's hoping for a smooth normal as possible run.

Here's hoping! We have been told concerts etc are on so hopefully a full term of regional and JD concerts, a couple of competitions and exams. Gone from zero to full on!

Hello, I keep meaning to ask on these threads. For those with secondary school kids , I'm trying to decide whether to send my dc to an independent school that has lots of music opportunities or to carry on with state and do everything else outside of school. Does anyone have any wisdom? Thanks

Well I have seen the music opportunities at the nearest independent school to us and they are phenomenal but the cost is out of our reach. We chose to spend on good quality private lessons. The DC then take part in school/ regional orchestras which are variable in level but still give a good experience. We now send one DC to a JD on a Saturday where she gets everything. There are also national youth orchestra opportunities for spring/ summer. We certainly wouldn't be able to afford all these plus private school so I guess it depends on your priorities and income.

Concerts, ensembles and some choirs back on here too. Long may it continue.

Now looking at courses - has anyone had a child attend the Rodolfus Choral Courses (used to be called the Eton Choral Courses)?

Checking in for new year / new thread! 2 musical DCs here- one at junior conservatoire and one at specialist school. Quietly following the threads these days and chipping in occasionally. HNY everyone!

Morning all. Yes, all back on here.
Huy, not sure I have any wisdom, but my kids are both at secondary state comprehensive. It has. in the past, had a great music department which is currently struggling a bit post covid - hoping sorted very soon! We could have (at a stretch) afforded independent, but decided we'd rather spend the money and time on outside musical and other opportunities. I don't usually regret it. The plural of anecdote is of course not data, but the musical children my DD2 meets at other activities from independent schools are at much the same level that she is - and I rather cynically suspect my DD2 gets into ensembles and gets opportunities that others do not simply because she is at a state comp (national youth choir/nco etc - and i note she'll have a chance at the NYO inspire stuff next year when she's a teen, which independent school peers will not). She also gets less homework, which gives her more time for her extra curricular stuff. We'll evaluate again at sixth form, I guess.

Ds was having an I'm not good enough meltdown last night. He has got a week to submit an audition tape for one of his UCAS choices and his practice didn't go well last night.

His autism means he hyper focuses on the wrong things sometimes and he can't cope with making mistakes. I tried to tell him that he might be awful at scales but I bet many of the other candidates are dreading being given sight reading (which is a big strength of his). He spends too much time sight reading for fun and not enough time on technique!

It doesn't help him being a late starter having only begun piano aged 14. So trying to boost his confidence.

@Huy456
My daughter is in Y6 and has been privately educated since reception year.
Words aren't enough to explain how pleased I am with the music department at her school. It was her school piano teacher that realised how much potential she had and pointed us in the direction of a JD.
She's now Captain of Music at the school and involved in tons of stuff. From the usual suspects - choir and orchestra - to various vocal groups and ensembles, jazz band and more. She's given numerous opportunities to play in front of an audience which is important. She's so happy and we find the school a lovely nurturing environment for her, academically and musically. We are currently in the 11+ process and we looked closely at the music departments at potential secondary schools. There are amazing departments with endless opportunities for a young musician.
I'm not familiar with the state system but have friends with kids in state school. From what they tell me it very far from this.
I hope this helps.

That's what I didn't want to hear!
We are happy with local primary but there is very little music in school. Whilst I'm happy to compensate now I think if we can afford it we should give dc the chance to be with like minded kids for secondary. Plus the less ferrying I have to do the more I can earn. It's a tricky one as we're on the borderline for affordability. We were offered small bursaries for a prestigious prep school but it would have left us with so little I'd rather save up for secondary.

@Huy456
I can totally sympathise with that.
Where are you based?
There's at least one state secondary in London which is also affiliated as a music academy. The Camden School for Girls. They offer a few places a year outside their catchment based on a music aptitude test. It's an amazing school and might not be the only one in the country. Try to look into that.
If you want info about CSG let me know. My daughter was accepted this year.

Thanks, the issue is my younger daughter would not get a music scholarship but I'd like them to attend the same school. Also older is a real all rounder and whilst naturally talented she's no prodigy and likes doing other things. Realistically the good girls day school near us is the best option I think overall as it will give both kids a good experience rather than just the musical child. Sorry to derail slightly!

@Huy456 I think its clear that in the majority of cases state schools just won't be able to compete with the breadth of music opportunity that the indi schools can (obviously you need to choose your indi school carefully), but thats where you need to decide if that provision of music has to be in school?

My son is year 6 and the indi / state consideration is very much live, and music provision is one part of that, however since he's started going to a Saturday music centre I'm less worried about the quality of music options in school so my decision now is in terms of whether i think more broadly its a sacrifice we want to make in terms of the costs and also whether we think its 'good value'.

Our local state schools are 'mixed' in terms of music provision- some have specialist places, others are a bit lacking but i actually like that he now does his music outside school. My hope is that by having music elsewhere, he has different friends, its something that he does for interest rather than because school make him and its less likely to get sidelined for a different club / activity that clashes. Does your daughter attend a JD and if not could this be something you could consider?

Thanks I think you're right, of they're that good at music no school will be able to fully meet their needs. No we haven't applied for a JD yet but will think about it later in the year ( she's only yr 3 so I'm waaaay premature) it's just on our mind as we turned down the prep and if we want to go indy for secondary we have to start now. For me, it's not the destination uni that's important as pampered middle class kids do well regardless. It's just if I can give them a pleasant school experience where they are with like minded kids and aren't sharing three to a keyboard should we do it, is it mean not to?!

*start saving now that should say

I agree with @northerngoldilocks re JD on Saturdays. My daughter started this year and absolutely loving it. She shares many interests with her friends from the program and bonded nicely with the kids there.

Don't think its too early to look into JDs at year 3 - even if its just having a look at what is available where you'd be willing to travel and what the criteria is. My daughter is in year 4 and I'm looking for her to start in September hopefully (start of year 5). You can start earlier but I don't really want to have to stay all day, so would prefer her to be more independent.

@Comefromaway

Ds was having an I'm not good enough meltdown last night. He has got a week to submit an audition tape for one of his UCAS choices and his practice didn't go well last night.

His autism means he hyper focuses on the wrong things sometimes and he can't cope with making mistakes. I tried to tell him that he might be awful at scales but I bet many of the other candidates are dreading being given sight reading (which is a big strength of his). He spends too much time sight reading for fun and not enough time on technique!

It doesn't help him being a late starter having only begun piano aged 14. So trying to boost his confidence.

Also - on the awful at scales - i tend to think that the only way you get better at them is playing them over and over again. For recent exams I got my daughter to play them all every day in the morning and then 5 at random from a pot (where you put all the scales in on bits of paper) in the afternoon. Means that they just know them inside out! Having a 'routine' like this really helped my kids (though they're younger).

Yes sorry I meant she's not good enough yet, she's working on her grade 3 piano now and the one near us asks for g3 distinction. She may not be JD material but has perfect pitch and a good memory so I'm keen for her to have music opportunities. She's just started an orchestral instrument too which should help as she'll be able to play with others.

I don't think it helps that he hasn't been given a list of scales to learn. Just that at some auditions they may ask him to play some scales and arpeggios. He has literally been learning them all in the past 12 months having not done them before!

I think where they 'may ask for some scales and arpeggios' surely they'd be of their choosing? Also worth checking he knows how to work out relative major / minor as a way of quickly checking key signature if it comes to it. You're right though - just scales on their own won't be the 'deciding factor' - it will be one part of it. Good luck to him.

@huy456 I can understand the dilemma.

Dd2 (Year 8) is definitely two to a keyboard (though not three) but I don't think it's actually doing her any harm for the one lesson a week that is the norm in most secondaries before they take GCSE options (she's not a pianist anyway, but plays three other instruments, so it's actually quite good for her to sit with someone else!).

If they take music for GCSE in a state school the classes are often very small as it's largely self selecting. DD1 is in a class of 15 for GCSE - plenty of keyboards (and all the other tech) to go round. It's worth asking about class sizes, and the levels of the children who actually take the exam - as that will affect the overall experience.

I would say that the musical performance standard is lower in my DDs' london comp than in the local independent schools (though this is London which skews everything). On the flip side, though, DD2 has a lot of love and attention poured into her because she is a bit unusual - that can be very good for a child's confidence. She gets the push and competition from her Saturday school (and I assume will from the london and national stuff this year), so I'm not worried too much that she's missing it!

There are plenty of extra curriculars at some state schools. My children could do a different ensemble every day if they wanted, despite it not being a school with music places. The issue is often that they don't want to, because it clashes with other things and there are only so many hours in the day.

To add our experience to the state/indy debate.

We originally sent DD1 to a local-ish state school which was renowned for excellent music provision and she was at a JD on Saturdays. to cut a long story short, it was an unmitigated disaster. She still didn't 'fit in' at the very musical state school and was very unhappy there. We spent our life on the road, as it was a longer journey than our catchment school where all her friends went, so she had a 20min car journey to the furthest bus stop, then another 40 mins on the bus each way. Plus JD in London on Saturday was a 2.5 hour round trip. She was exhausted and had no time for anything. She is now at a specialist school where she is much happier as everything happens in one place, she gets time to hang out with her mates and doesn't spend her life in the car. Plus there are lots of like minded people.

With DD2, we decided to send her to the catchment school with her friends which is a short bus ride away. She does all her music outside school at JD. We have no expectations of the music department - who are kind and inclusive, but not high achieving. However they have been way more supportive of DD2 and her achievements than the other school were of DD1.

In all honesty, I think if we'd sent DD1 to the catchment school with her primary school friends she'd still be there now and happy with JD on Saturdays.

I'm not sure what the moral of all this is - maybe it's that you can offer your child high level music outside of school and not to worry too much about what happens in school. Because if they are very very musical, it's hard to find the right place (state or independent) outside of the specialist system if you want it in school.

Hi all, happy new year! @huy456, our dc goes to a state school with a kind and supportive but not high achieving music department. The advantage we have is the short school day which finishes before 3pm, so she can fit in two practices per day - a sizeable one in the afternoon. It also means we can afford a great teacher and have time to supplement with chamber music, regional orchestra and NCO. At the moment it is working for us. Independent schools in the area don't offer dramatically better music provision and have a longer school day making it harder to carve out enough practice time... Probably the biggest weakness is no high-level weekly orchestra but I think we would need to go to specialist school for that.

All really interesting replies thank you so much for sharing your experiences. I think my dd is likely to be good but wouldn't be interested enough for a specialist school. Can I ask those who do all the ferrying, do you work full time? I'm currently part time so can do it but would need to go full time to get promoted, which I will want to do in future. I'm struggling to see how we could do it and work, although I suppose as they get older the classes get later? Thanks