6 yr old ballet exam-no underwear allowed?!?

[CherryLeaf]

My DD6 is going to take a little ballet exam in a few weeks, for a rosette. I’ve been advised that they are not allowed to wear underwear under the leotard as it ‘destroys the aesthetic look of the dancer’.
She has to wear a little skirt over the top of her leotard so I’m having trouble understanding. I’ve raised it with the teacher and she’s advised that i should think about the leotard as the same as a swimming costume… so normal to not wear underwear beneath it.
I find this odd and makes me uncomfortable. She’s only 6, why does a vpl matter? Is this normal ballet rules please?

Doesn’t anyone think it’s odd that adults are telling little girls not to wear knickers in 2021. Surely it’s up-to the child.

@Feelinghothothottoday

Doesn’t anyone think it’s odd that adults are telling little girls not to wear knickers in 2021. Surely it’s up-to the child.

I honestly think back to so many things that just wouldn’t be acceptable now. Having to shower naked infront of the PE teacher is one. Having to wear tiny PE shorts to play hockey in Winter. I always thought that was creepy but rule are rules!!!

@Feelinghothothottoday what I find even more odd is that there are other adults supporting these adults who telling children not to wear underwear.

As an adult I had to realise that a cotton gusset is a bad idea if you're running through waist deep water (or getting very sweaty for a long while (half marathon) and that padded seam free cycling shorts work a lot better without pants. I also discovered some pants are better than others for horse riding!

Wish I'd been told these useful bits of information before I found out for myself, the hard way...

Exactly! My PE teacher would swim naked with us in swimming lessons. How inappropriate would that be now! It was then but nobody said anything. It went along with showers after PE at the age of 14 whilst the PE teacher held our towels. Again acceptable and no one questioned it then.

[quote ineedaholidaynow]@Feelinghothothottoday what I find even more odd is that there are other adults supporting these adults who telling children not to wear underwear.[/quote]
Thats because the ‘Dance Mums’ are in such a massive bubble they can’t be rational anymore.

@Feelinghothothottoday

Exactly! My PE teacher would swim naked with us in swimming lessons. How inappropriate would that be now! It was then but nobody said anything. It went along with showers after PE at the age of 14 whilst the PE teacher held our towels. Again acceptable and no one questioned it then.

Woah!!!!

I think what the dance mums are saying is that it’s entirely possible to buy pants that don’t show (and yes, you can buy very small ones for little DDs, especially as dance stuff always comes up tiny), and to do that if that’s what the OP and her dd prefer. But that many dancers prefer to just have tights and leotard, and its OK to have that preference.

And that tere are some old school teachers who say ‘no pants’, but they shouldn’t, and anyway if you buy the dance pants that don’t show, then the teacher will never know.

As an adult I had to realise that a cotton gusset is a bad idea if you're running through waist deep water (or getting very sweaty for a long while (half marathon) and that padded seam free cycling shorts work a lot better without pants. I also discovered some pants are better than others for horse riding!

I've worn normal knickers under shorts (cycling shorts and looser cut shorts - even the ones with a built in gusset) for every race I've ever done (maybe 50-60) and not found it problematic in any way! Sports bras on the other hand are much more likely to cause issues! but obviously they are essential (more so than knickers!)

@Feelinghothothottoday

Exactly! My PE teacher would swim naked with us in swimming lessons. How inappropriate would that be now! It was then but nobody said anything. It went along with showers after PE at the age of 14 whilst the PE teacher held our towels. Again acceptable and no one questioned it then.

Whaaat?! When was this? Make or female teacher? Surely that was NEVER acceptable?

Nobody is losing marks for wearing knickers. Visible knickers (either because they are lumpy under the leotard, patterned and showing through, or hanging out the leg holes of the leotard) are messy. Ballet is a very disciplined art, and being neat is a good representation of the precision involved. The discipline is there from an early age, a lot of the precision comes later. But marks are not deducted for appearance.

If you or your DD is not happy with going without knickers under a leotard, then high legged nude-coloured knickers shouldn’t be an issue. The First Position ones are very thin fabric and don’t show at all. When DD was a JA at the Royal Ballet School, these were the ones we ordered from the uniform suppliers. Now she is at full-time ballet school, she continues to wear nude knickers under her leotard, again straight off the uniform list.

Many ballet teachers have the ‘no knickers for shoes or exams’ rule to avoid visible underwear, but would not object in the slightest to the ones I have described.

*shows or exams

Shoes will definitely be needed… and they just get more and more expensive 🤣

@user1471539385

*shows or exams

Shoes will definitely be needed… and they just get more and more expensive 🤣

Tell me about it!

@Feelinghothothottoday

Exactly! My PE teacher would swim naked with us in swimming lessons. How inappropriate would that be now! It was then but nobody said anything. It went along with showers after PE at the age of 14 whilst the PE teacher held our towels. Again acceptable and no one questioned it then.

Well I’m pretty old and it would never have been acceptable to our schools, our parents or any reasonable person. Was this pre 1960s or some strange, remote island?

No the mid 70s. Why would I lie. It happened. There were 15 or so girls in the school pool and the female teacher took her costume off. Some of the girls did too. It was an indoor school pool.

@Feelinghothothottoday

No the mid 70s. Why would I lie. It happened. There were 15 or so girls in the school pool and the female teacher took her costume off. Some of the girls did too. It was an indoor school pool.

I didn’t suggest you were lying. I merely pointed out it was never acceptable and not normal even ‘back then’.

I agree. It wasn’t acceptable.

And it isn't just fabric next to their skin they have to be comfortable with. They need to work with other dancers (so female with male and vice versa) as their partner. They touch each other. A lot. It's part of the art.

This ethos is changing. Just because its what happened in the past it doesn't mean its acceptable for the future. Dancers are being encouraged to speak out against these practises

Male and female dancers touching each other is a practice against which dancers are speaking out? On what planet? How do you lift or support a partner without touching them? Or, indeed, how do you play parts such as Romeo and Juliet whilst maintaining a rigid distance?

@Comefromaway

I would hope that the last year or so would have taught us that just because something has been perceived as normal in the past in the ballet/dance world it isn’t necessarily right and should be changed.

This. I find it creepy and archaic. No visible underwear is fine. Full face of make up on young girls also a bit creepy to me though.

@Zzelda

And it isn't just fabric next to their skin they have to be comfortable with. They need to work with other dancers (so female with male and vice versa) as their partner. They touch each other. A lot. It's part of the art.

This ethos is changing. Just because its what happened in the past it doesn't mean its acceptable for the future. Dancers are being encouraged to speak out against these practises

Male and female dancers touching each other is a practice against which dancers are speaking out? On what planet? How do you lift or support a partner without touching them? Or, indeed, how do you play parts such as Romeo and Juliet whilst maintaining a rigid distance?

Have you read all the recent stuff in the press about the goings on at Ballet West and other schools. Various actors and dancers are speaking out about dubious practises at dance/drama schools and there have been resignations/stepping down/arrests of various people at these schools. Only a couple of weeks ago a dancer/actress who played Christine in Phantom of the Opera has spoken out about the way she was physically handled in that role. The overall consensus is that this must change and there is a correct way to do things, not to just accept it blindly.

@Feelinghothothottoday

I find it odd the comparison of leotards to swimming costumes. Completely different. Swimmers are not dancing across a stage in their costumes. Swimmers stand on the edge of the pool then dive in and are completely covered by the water.

Ridiculous. So you’re saying the knicker-less state can be seen? No it can’t, the leotard does the job of covering up the bits supposed to be covered. Lack of underwear can’t be seen; however knickers under the leotard might well be seen.

Would you want to see a professional ballet dancer not well groomed? With knickers and bra straps showing and messy hair? I know small children are a long way from professional dancers but as others have said it’s about the discipline of ballet. Dancers wear their hair in buns so the beautiful neck line can be seen.

The knickerless state absolutely CAN be seen. I've seen far too many children and photographs of children in leotards and no knickers showing appalling camel toe than I'd ever have liked.

Then I’d say this is about ill-fitting Leo’s - or maybe badly made ones. Or parents putting small children in old Leo’s or body suits which are not leotards made specifically for dance. All my leos have a flesh-coloured thick Lycra lining in the front. Ballet leotards are - or should be - cut differently from gymnastics Leo’s, swimsuits, or the all in one bodies that are occasionally fashionable.

But if you put a child in anything like a swimsuit or a leotard that is not the right fit - not long enough in the body, for example , then there is going to be evidence of the bad or inappropriate fit.

There is no difference between swimsuits and leotards in this situation. It’s down to parents checking that clothing actually fits!

Lucky you if your body happens to match the standard issue leotard.
There is zero difference between the cut of ballet and gymnastics leotards for 6yos. Gym Leo's are stretchier.
If anyone knows where to buy pure cotton Leo's, let me know, I get asked and haven't found one yet.
Top tip, multipack of plain pastel pants, one will match the ballet Leo, keep with Leo.
Top tip two, leo one size down, cut sleeves off, hem, stitch straps on, voila an under-leo.