6 yr old ballet exam-no underwear allowed?!?

[CherryLeaf]

My DD6 is going to take a little ballet exam in a few weeks, for a rosette. I’ve been advised that they are not allowed to wear underwear under the leotard as it ‘destroys the aesthetic look of the dancer’.
She has to wear a little skirt over the top of her leotard so I’m having trouble understanding. I’ve raised it with the teacher and she’s advised that i should think about the leotard as the same as a swimming costume… so normal to not wear underwear beneath it.
I find this odd and makes me uncomfortable. She’s only 6, why does a vpl matter? Is this normal ballet rules please?

Surely the view of the child should trump everything - it's different for an older teen or adult to make a decision on whether to pursue a sport to a higher level and the discipline that comes with that.

Young children should be able to choose whether to wear underwear or not. If they don't mind, fine. If they want to wear underwear they can.

When I did gym (badly) there was no way I wouldn't've worn underwear. Because that is what I felt comfortable in. I didn't care what it looked like and I'm glad my gym instructor or mum never suggested otherwise.

@Blooter

I'm finding it really worrying that some people think little girls wearing leotards without pants is "disgusting". It's sexualising young girls.

My dd used to be prone to thrush and uti’s. Going knickerless excaberbated the discomfort. It’s not very hygienic.

It's a cotton leotard most of the time. Washed after every use. How is that unhygienic? Adding an extra layer will make the area more hot and sweaty, which could make thrush worse.

@Blooter
I think we risk sexualising young girls if we say it's inappropriate for them to not wear underwear under a leotard. PP have even said it is "creepy". I think something is very wrong with you if you think little girls wearing cotton leotards is creepy. Is it creepy for girls to wear swimming costumes?

I was the one who said creepy. My point is that little girls’ underwear is no one’s business except the little girls themselves and their parents. If they want to wear underwear, great. If they don’t, great. If a TEACHER sends home a letter telling them not to, sorry but that’s well creepy. (Telling them not to wear visible underwear doesn’t give me the ick in the same way.)

I find it odd the comparison of leotards to swimming costumes. Completely different. Swimmers are not dancing across a stage in their costumes. Swimmers stand on the edge of the pool then dive in and are completely covered by the water.

@Blooter sorry I wasn't specific. How it fits with this

No, it is much harder to see correct alignment and placing with a catsuit or leggings. The leotard helps to see the hip alignment and also the muscles. It is vitally important that a dance teacher can see the dancer's body in detail, not only to teach and correct technique and alignment, but because doing it wrong can cause serious and long term injuries.

Teachers must have a way of teaching students who do cover up and the choice should be there.

Thank you for all of your comments, I think I’ll go with the ballet underwear which won’t be seen, (thanks PP) as that seems a good compromise. Good to see what the RAD say on the topic too! I’m definitely not a troll (but I’m sure they all say that) I haven’t really met the other ballet mums, DD only started a short time ago (with big lockdown gaps) and we’re not allowed to stay for the session.

It's normal. For those saying there should be a choice, perhaps try a recreational school which doesn't do exams and as such might be more relaxed re uniform?

Also there are specific dance knickers which you can order from Amazon, they are skin tone and have high legs, and perhaps your teacher might be ok with them.

Teachers get up and close and can see if things need adjusting which is why they can be more covered up.

Examiners tend to sit away and observe several children at once. They need to see the movement of the dancers without anything hindering it

I never wore knicks until I was about 12ish and could wear very high legged pants. My 4yrs old goes without knickers - nothing worse than seeing pants hanging out or - I can remember from my day - children who still had their vests under their leotards!!!!

Surely the view of the child should trump everything - it's different for an older teen or adult to make a decision on whether to pursue a sport to a higher level and the discipline that comes with that

With ballet though (unlike several other forms of dance) the discipline and precision starts at a very young age, partly so the children understand what comes with learning ballet. If you want to pursue it through to a high level, you don’t get to wait until adulthood to make that decision - you need to do so much earlier (I think Darcey Bussell was 13 when she joined the Royal Ballet school, and her teachers thought it was probably too late for her to become a serious ballet dancer, but she was determined to prove them wrong).

If tying your hair back into a neat bun and wearing either no/no visible knickers is not for you, then ballet is likely not for you either.

@SpringBluebellWoods

I have a non vocational but serious dancing dd, and I’ve noticed the better (more professional, higher quality) teachers don’t fuss about uniform or hair, except asking for it to be neat for shoes and exams. It’s the little local ballet schools with lots of pre primary/primary/G1 pupils and a show a year that seem to enforce the very old fashioned rules.

The Royal Ballet School is very strict on appearance so definitely not just the smaller schools... I guess it can vary? I would say they all have a thing for neat hair though, no teacher likes a messy bun and flyaways.

@NerrSnerr Stephanie Kurlow is a lovely dancer but it will have been incredibly difficult for both her and her teacher to know when she is doing something right/wrong. Before covid ballet teachers often touched and physically moved dancers to bring them into correct alignment and if that wasn't allowed either (I don't know if it is or isn't allowed) it would be even more difficult. She's done amazingly well but it can't have been easy. It's great that dance studios are becoming more Muslim-inclusive. As a feminist and non-Muslim I personally don't think that girls should be made to cover up their bodies but it's great that if you do believe that there options for you to still do ballet. It will definitely make learning and teaching much, much more difficult though. You can't correct what you can't see.

Equally you could say the grooming (& I don’t mean hair) starts at a young age so that young people don’t question things that are not right. Google Ballet West for an exampl of what can happen when you don’t question things.

Students at full time vocational ballet schools are allowed to wear knickers.

Make Up for shows (not exams) as the lights will 'drown them' - the little ones just a teeny bit

@Blooter I just think it should go both ways. No one should be forced to cover up their bodies but no one also should be forced to show parts of their body they don't want to. Especially young children.

I find it really difficult to understand why a 6 year old can't wear knickers in a ballet exam if that's what she feels more comfortable in.

My DD is a professional dancer and has always, virtually always, worn underwear. She didn’t do any ballet exams as a child, though - they are not compulsory.

But they're not being forced to show any more of their body by not wearing pants. Unless you want them to wear pants that come below the line of the leotard and stick out of the legs? That would look really awful as well as being super uncomfortable!

By the way, I'm not saying that if a child feels uncomfortable not wearing pants that they should be forced not to. And as posted above the exams boards don't say this either.

What I am objecting to is people saying that it is disgusting or creepy or misogynistic for little girls to wear leotards without pants. Or that they should cover up their bodies. Or that the high grooming standards expected somehow makes ballet into a beauty pageant or focused on looks.

I remember being extremely shocked when my DD came home from ballet saying she wasn't allowed to wear knickers for the exam at about the same age (RAD grade 1). I emailed to teacher to ask WTF was she thinking asking small kids to remove their underwear without even discussing it with parents first? She replied that in all her years of teaching I was the first parent to question it and the leotard is like a swimming costume. I spoke to my DD and explained why she was asked not to wear knickers and she was happy with it so no more was said. I still think it's weird for little kids and imo the swimming costume comparison doesn't stack up as your knickers would get wet if you wore them in the pool and therefore would be daft and impractical, it's not about what it looks like.

I expect the reason some dance teachers say no pants for exams for little ones is that they don't expect the parents to fork out for specialist nude dance pants just for one 20-30 minute exam. Im not even sure you can get them in very small sizes. And normal cotton little girl's pants will look really awful under a leotard and little children tend to fiddle and pull at them at the sides because they are uncomfortable. Not what you want in an exam.

I did ballet and always wore underwear. A strange rule for a child so young.

On the running point (off topic) to run at my fastest in any temperature above 15 degrees I'd want to wear as little as possible. For me with wobbly tummy and big thighs I have to take into account chafing as part of that comfort equation and would therefore always wear long shorts with a high waist plus a compression top that helps the sports bra do it's job and minimises the tummy jiggle. A high level runner won't have tummy jiggle and not everyone struggles with chafing as it seems to be skin type dependent rather than purely size dependent. So I can totally get that women would choose to wear as little as they can for performance reasons. In training you might want the extra warmth, protection from rubbing and you don't need the extra seconds you might gain!

My DD developed an extremely rigid sense of modesty at a very young age so this presented a problem for us. We ended up getting a nude liner leotard. They are surprisingly pricey, but like I said, she was very rigid on this one. Also very helpful for changes as they get older.

I did ballet at a boarding stage school and you could wear knickers in exams. The gusset of the leotard was substantial and it was quite high coverage on the bum (uniform specially made for the school which was run by a former Royal Ballet Corps dancer).