DD14 'wants to be a dancer but isn't driven enough'

[Notrightbutok]

I am trying to support her ambition the best I can but she didn't keep up with zoom classes during lock down. When it was the final dance class before lock down she went Awol to hang out at the park. Her goal is to attend Birmingham Ormiston Academy, there are a few local girls that get in even though we're not in the area.

I have found out that there will be audition for a Cat scheme. She said she's interested, a girl in her dance class attends a Cat scheme so she is familiar with it.
I asked her to complete the questions on the application and she's all arsey and preoccupied with her phone.

She won't ever be a classical dancer, she's attended various dance schools in the last few years where she is currently the teacher is lovely but it's all ballet based. She was attending another school to do modern and tap but she used to feel a bit left out as most of the girls there were doing every single class plus festivals.

I have given up a lot of time to drive her to associate classes and I would happily drive her to the end of the country but there's no effort on her part. It's as if she's doing me the favour by dragging her feet getting ready for classes.

I would be relieved if she said she wants to gvie up or said she no longer wants to train. I am trying to be realistic with her but she will twist it and accuse me of saying
she has no talent.

There is a much younger girl at her dance school who was watching dance on YouTube and decided for herself she wanted to go to vocational school. She won a place at a vocational school for yr7. I've spoken to her Mum and can see the girl is like a sponge, wanting to learn as much as she can during lessons.

DD isn't like that, she's glued to tiktok. A couple of years ago her dance teacher suggested auditioning for RBS SA so she has seen potential but there's no drive on my daughter's part, she's often so busy on her phone that she doesn't pack her dance bag properly and then tries to blame me on front of her teacher even though I remind her at home. I really think DD believes she can just get into BOA and a switch will go off.

Before anyone asks I am not pushing her at all, I have seen how competitive the industry is, I would prefer it if she pursues another career path. I just think she's in for a very rude awakening and don't know how to prepare her.

Did she watch Glow Up on BBC recently? It's a competition for make up artists and covers not just the cat walk and magazine work, but make up for West End shows and television.

It does sound as though she doesn't have a passion for dance. As a PP said, the ones that do just live and breathe it. She's good at it but you're spending a lot of time, energy and money on her doing it - your son is missing out and so are you, frankly.

Your DD is old enough for you to have a conversation about 'aptitude' and 'attitude'. You can say you know that she seems to have the aptitude for dance, the signs are there. But she also needs to attitude to go with it - the hunger for it, making it a priority over other things.

If she can't see herself drawing on both the aptitude and attitude aspects in future, then its not for her (or for you). She'll need to start thinking about another type of career perhaps, or another direction in performing arts.

Explain to her the unfortunate position of having to take these decisions at a young age in dance.

Explain to her that it's not just what she says, its what she does.

Underline that you see the talent in her, but not the drive, and that's what's concerning you.

Say you will help and support her whatever she wants to do, but that you want her to make the best decision that she can, with your support.

corythatwas

Also, I really wouldn't regard a degree on its own as an insurance these days: most degrees need to be combined with a proper career plan and some hard work put in researching and adapting yourself to a certain job.*

It is easier to build on a degree than to start one for the first time as a mature student. A degree isn’t enough anymore but it is the minimum academic requirement for most professions and further courses.

Studying the arts is ok if the person is very driven and has no other interest other than their chosen field. But the chances of success are slim unless you are excellent, in the right place at the right time or know somebody who can open doors for you. I’m measuring success by obtaining work and being financial secure. I understand that for some, being passionate in their chosen field and doing what they love everyday is their definition of success. As enviable as that is, I don’t and won’t have the means to financially support my children as adults and cannot offer them this choice.

I also have a child who doesn't appear to be driven enough. He loves it and has been managing to stay in a highly selective environment (so far). But he certainly doesn't live and breathe the world he's in and is interested in many other things like any other boys at his age. He can be hard-working but would happily skip practice at every opportunity. He likes what he does and wants to be better but doesn't like actual practice... I feel that's not good enough but he is still 13. I've kind of decided to give him time till 16. Hopefully by then he will know his heart better and we can make any necessary adjustment prior to the new start at the 6th form.

Alongcameacat, I really don't believe most actors live off their parents: certainly none of dd's friends. They work in other jobs, most work during their degree as well to fund their studies. They accept that they will have to be multi-skilled and flexible and just incredibly hard-working.

I sympathise with your desire to see your dc in more stable careers, performance is certainly a huge gamble- but it is dd's gamble, not mine.

(Also, the distinction between degrees and drama schools is being eroded these days as the big drama schools offer BA programmes)

corythatwas I didn’t realise your daughter is an actor! I was speaking hypothetically (and from a place of current personal financial insecurity which colours my view completely). I hope your daughter will be very successful. She sounds so driven and hard working, she will make things happen.

Thank you. She hasn't graduated yet, but already has made plans for a future that does not depend on food parcels from home.

My ds is a swimmer.

Says he's aiming for 2024/28 para olympics.

So I pay for lessons and competitions.

But that's all I do.

He knows the times we have to leave. I check (because sessions change dependent on day) he remembers at dinner.

So "can you remember what time we are leaving?" That's it. I get myself ready and make sure I'm ready when it's time to leave. If he is too we go. If he isn't we are late and I say nothing. No need - that's what the coach is for!

Ds isn't late but we've had a few times he's been watching you tube and suddenly noticed I'm getting ready and so we've left cutting it fine.

Same with comps. Here is the sheet with races. (I doing off website) I write a deadline on sheet he has to return to me so I can book them.

Day before he gets a reminder I need races by tomorrow if he wants to compete. He dies get the offer to sit with me and I will help him decide a decent balance.

Other than that the rest has to come from him. Only a few make that level. He does have the potential. But potential isn't enough without the drive and that has to come from them.

I think agreeing a set of classes with a very stern warning you'll pay only if she is ready to go on time this term gives her an aim. Then leave it

What is her attitude to school like? Does she do homework and get organised and ready for school without major nagging from you? It sounds like she likes the idea of being a dancer but doesn't like the idea of the work and commitment involved.

My dd is training in dance/MT. She went to vocational school aged 11.

I wouldn’t put too much into not taking part in Zoom classes. Dd used lockdown as an opportunity to diversify Into training in things like voiceover and other genres alongside the classes provided by her school but there were several at her school who found it difficult to engage on Zoom.

But these kids live and breathe dance. From a young age dd voluntarily gave up parties, sleepovers etc etc in order to dance.

CAT schemes are very competitive to get onto and the older you get the more it’s about hard work and technique rather than just potential.

I’ve heard mixed about BOA. I don’t think the standard of dance is overly high but combined with a traditional dance school is an option. It wasn’t somewhere dd considered.

Witje regards to school work, she isn't as conscientious as her older sister was but she does get it done.

She's had me in tears today, I've been asking her to try on her leotard to check it still fits, she has 'lost' it and had a melt down and yelled at me to get out her room. I offered to help her tidy up but she's on her phone most of the time. All she does is lie on her bed on her phone and puts on a full face of make up even though she's not going out anywhere.

I have paid out for her associates but right now I'm prepared to kiss that money goodbye and have a peaceful life.

Her classes start next week and I'm just trying to get organised as my work hours also increase next week. She was shouting at me when I was trying to explain that I need to get organised and maybe order a new leotard. It shouldn't be like this, her associates are a 70 mile round trip twice monthly. I give up a lot of time, she doesn't get it.

Perhaps it's time to take a big step back OP. You've done the organisation, told her about the leotard and paid the fees and the rest is up to her. Let her know when her classes are and that it is up to her to be ready and organised or you will not be taking her and leave it there. You will soon find out if she is actually interested or not.

I agree step back.

You shouldn't need to tell a dancer to make sure they have a leotard.

She's old enough to know she needs to have these things and if she's as serious as she says she is that is the most basic of tasks.

I’d restrict her phone usage tbh

Your being really contradictory, you're saying that you're not pushing her and don't mind if she becomes a dancer, but then you are pushing her, by your actions.

Is it because you're only willing to make your current sacrifices if she takes this seriously as a career path? If so, you need to be really clear with yourself and her; work out what ways you're willing to support her and what you require from her in return. Then let her have a free choice, and stand by what you said if she doesn't fulfill her end of the agreement.

If she doesn't want this as a career, work out how much time and money are you happy to spend on this as a hobby.

Either she really wants this career, and more responsibility will help her grow up and take ownership of the plan, or she's not that bothered, in which case there's no point causing conflict by pushing her.

I would do as the swimming pp said: print out what she needs and her timetable for her, be ready to take her, and if she doesn’t step up and organise herself to get ready in time then she misses her chance. One missed class/session is a warning, the next is final-stop paying for the subs. Give her a clear warning of what you intend to do and it will be a way of seeing if she has the necessary attitude.

Yep, it's a tough one.
One of my dds is 15 and a dancer. She's been on the competition circuit for several years and has all the grades plus singing too. It costs me a huge amount, financially and also in terms of time - entire May half terms spent at the All England semifinals, many missed family events/parties/sleepovers for competitions etc etc. And the costumes, tap shoes, pointe shoes.......£££££.
She loves it though, and I think you have to love it. She is also very talented, and I really don't want that to sound boastful, but what I'm saying is that (as a pp said) you need aptitude as well as the right attitude. If I didn't think she was good, I'd scale back immediately.

It does sound like the phone usage is an issue independently, do you think she has got addicted to it? Maybe you need to look at stricter rules around screen time.

Really good advice from Thinkingg there.

By continuing to pay her subs but contemplating punishing her in other ways (e.g. docking pocket money) you will be giving the message that you expect her to do this training. That will make it harder for her to back out and it's also likely to leave you more frustrated (and out of pocket).

I would do the opposite. Sit down and explain that this is a sacrifice that you are willing to make but only if you think it is a worthwhile part of her education. Otherwise, you would rather that money was saved or used in other ways for her and her brother.

Explain that there are different ways you would consider it worthwhile. If she works hard, then she does not actually have to become a professional dancer for it to be worthwhile, because hard work and organising are transferable skills. But make it clear that this is only the case if she gets the work done: set out very clearly what your expectations are and what you will or will not pay for next semester (e.g. local course but no associates) if your expectations are not met.

Make it clear exactly what you expect her responsibilities to be, and what you will not be nagging her about in the future.

I wonder OP if deep down you feel you have already spent so much time and money in dance lessons, that you really want her to give it a proper chance.?

If she is half in and half out then I think you have your answer to be honest. Dance suits her - as a hobby.

There are many benefits to dance as a hobby and not everyone has to do it at a high level. If she wants to do it at a high level she has to match the financial and time effort you have made with her commitment and attitude. It sounds like she could do with it as a means to getting her off her phone and out of her room. Would something more low key and local suit you both better?

Tell her it's off, and that you did your bit but she didn't do hers. Or one last chance to show committment by any way you decide.

She doesn't sound like she will get anywhere with dance, except maybe as a hobby. Talent is just part of it, to make it people have to have the personality to be absolutely dedicated. It goes beyond just hard work, though that is key, it is almost obsessional single mindedness. There are sacrifices. It isn't a normal life. It isn't for everyone, and there is nothing wrong with not being the kind of person who wants to do that.

If you think maybe this is an odd phase then it may be worth persisting, but even then....for many people even a phase will be what ends the dream. I think I would try and talk to her about confidence, make sure she isn't backing away because she fears she isn't good enough. If it isn't that, if it is that she just isn't going to be the kind of person who wants to devote the next years to this, then be clear with her that you,lol be letting it go for the moment. Don't waste your time and money unless her attitude changes.

It does sound like the phone usage is an issue independently, do you think she has got addicted to it? Maybe you need to look at stricter rules around screen time.

Yes, it definitely is an issue. Trouble is her dad never backs me up when I've tried to tackle it.

I have read all the replies and the advice is very useful. I have already paid out for the associates, it is 2 Sundays per month. Her dad is being awkward and doesn't want todrive her if they fall on his weekends. He doesn't take it seriously as he thinks of she has the talent she doesn't need to do lots of classes. That's partly because her old dance teacher was once with a very prestigious company and she mentored so dancers that hadn't received much training. DD didn't enjoy being taught by her so she left.

DD is really keen on Street dance and heels class so I have agreed to take her there if she is ready and organised for her other classes.