DD14 'wants to be a dancer but isn't driven enough'

[Notrightbutok]

I am trying to support her ambition the best I can but she didn't keep up with zoom classes during lock down. When it was the final dance class before lock down she went Awol to hang out at the park. Her goal is to attend Birmingham Ormiston Academy, there are a few local girls that get in even though we're not in the area.

I have found out that there will be audition for a Cat scheme. She said she's interested, a girl in her dance class attends a Cat scheme so she is familiar with it.
I asked her to complete the questions on the application and she's all arsey and preoccupied with her phone.

She won't ever be a classical dancer, she's attended various dance schools in the last few years where she is currently the teacher is lovely but it's all ballet based. She was attending another school to do modern and tap but she used to feel a bit left out as most of the girls there were doing every single class plus festivals.

I have given up a lot of time to drive her to associate classes and I would happily drive her to the end of the country but there's no effort on her part. It's as if she's doing me the favour by dragging her feet getting ready for classes.

I would be relieved if she said she wants to gvie up or said she no longer wants to train. I am trying to be realistic with her but she will twist it and accuse me of saying
she has no talent.

There is a much younger girl at her dance school who was watching dance on YouTube and decided for herself she wanted to go to vocational school. She won a place at a vocational school for yr7. I've spoken to her Mum and can see the girl is like a sponge, wanting to learn as much as she can during lessons.

DD isn't like that, she's glued to tiktok. A couple of years ago her dance teacher suggested auditioning for RBS SA so she has seen potential but there's no drive on my daughter's part, she's often so busy on her phone that she doesn't pack her dance bag properly and then tries to blame me on front of her teacher even though I remind her at home. I really think DD believes she can just get into BOA and a switch will go off.

Before anyone asks I am not pushing her at all, I have seen how competitive the industry is, I would prefer it if she pursues another career path. I just think she's in for a very rude awakening and don't know how to prepare her.

I would leave it at that. Just supply her with the application and an offer to help with filling it out, and obviously driving her there.

On an other note, it sounds like she has done lots of little bits here and there... maybe she has to many choices and isn't able to persue any of them properly?
There is always a big difference between dreams and reality.

She has done Street dance at a completely separate school which she loves, she was also doing a junior theatre company but it clashed with pointe classes. I agree she has done bits at lots of schools but the ballet school seh is at really make her fall in love with ballet, she enjoys RAD syllabus.

The other dance school knew she did ballet elsewhere, the principal there is really supportive. Both her kids have gone onto vocational schools so she does know the biz. She wanted DD to join the festival team but DDs behaviour at home was so bad we decided we weren't going to commit to that on top when she's so ungrateful about everything she gets.

I think too many bits and pieces too. I understand you/she wants and needs exposure to different areas in order to know what she likes/dislikes but it sounds like you are carrying her.

Enrol her in one school and let her know the number of classes you are prepared to pay for and she can choose herself,
If she isn’t committed, she won’t get past the auditions which is fine. If she tries her best, she may still not get past the audition stage. That is part of life and you nagging her isn’t going to make much difference. She may be left to make different career choices either way.

It wasn't intentional on my part that she was doing lessons all over the place. She moved from a dance school with a very strict teacher who put her off ballet. I found the RAD school but they don't do tap or modern. I would have loved for her to do classes all in one place.

I agree, I am definitely carrying her.

Her goal is to attend Birmingham Ormiston Academy

Has she thought about what she wants to do after that?

Has she thought about what she wants to do after that?

I don't think she's thought that far ahead. I met some dancers when I was on holiday so I asked a couple of them where they trained. When I told DD she said 'Oh I want to go there'

I met some dancers when I was on holiday so I asked a couple of them where they trained. When I told DD she said 'Oh I want to go there'

It sounds like she might be less into dance than she says, OP - do you think it's something she wants to bond with you over rather than something she wants to do for herself?

I would be a bit more passive about it and support her when she needs lifts, asks for lessons and wants to go to recitals/competitions, etc but let it all come from her now. I wouldn't go researching deadlines, finding out what other people are doing or bringing it up in conversation - if dancing professionally really is her goal, she'll be thinking about this stuff without prompting.

When I told DD she said 'Oh I want to go there

It doesn’t sound as if she has thought about it much at all. Her answers sound impulsive. What age is she? Has she a career guidance teacher? I think the first thing I’d do is arrange for her to meet one who can talk her through her expected exam results, discuss options and take it from there.

Step back a bit. Say things like 'you will find your direction, just go for the things you want to do.' Unconditional acceptance - you're a great dancer and a great person, whatever you do will please me.' No more reminders about times or applications. Just say 'tell me when you are ready to do the forms'. Don't take the responsibility or the blame. But beware your feeling of disappointment, it will hinder her.

Getting into vocational training is tough, so any applications need to be driven by your DD and supported by you. The fact that she has been involved with associate schemes shows that she could have potential, but even then not everyone makes it into the next stage of training as a scheme ends. Of the 16 children in DD’s Royal Ballet School JA class, only 3 of them made it into full time training. If your DD isn’t desperate to train as a dancer (rather than dancing as a hobby), it is a tough road with a lot of disappointments along the way. Even those that complete their training don’t necessarily get a job at the end of it. Keep your role in the process a supporting one: providing help with forms, driving to auditions and having the bank card at the ready. The driving force needs to be her.

I'd do what Longines says: taking a bit more of a passive role and letting her do some of the researching. There is no harm in letting her sort herself out, letting her audition and fail, and letting her learn from that. If she actually wants to go into the performing industry, then she has to be tough enough to cope with rejection, if she doesn't then she might as well find that out for herself. She will either push herself or she will not become a dancer.

There has been slight progress today, I have sent payment for her associate classes as she said she wants to carry on as they will make her a better dancer.

I wish she would do research, she has taught herself to apply make through watching YouTube and she could easily research dscne if she wanted. I will pay for and provide transport and try and be more passive.

How much is she doing it because she wants to, and how much is she doing it because she thinks you want her to, and she doesn't want you to be disappointed in her.

How much is she doing it because she wants to, and how much is she doing it because she thinks you want her to, and she doesn't want you to be disappointed in her.

Lately she's done zero on zoom, I really don't push her to attend but I do chivvy her along if she gets in from school and doesn't get herself ready in time.

I really don't push into it, if she wants to be a hobby dancer it's fine by me, less expense and less driving.

I think she is just old enough that you can have that gentle conversation where you point out that enabling her to prepare for a career as a professional dancer is both expensive and hard work for you, and that while you are happy to do that if she is serious, you do need to see that she is putting in the kind of work that other young people do when they're serious about this type of career.
Explain gently but firmly that it's not about your opinion of her talent, but that you know that nobody, however talented, can get there without hard work.
Explain that it's absolutely fine to do dance as a hobby and that this is not a failure: you'll be just as proud of her.
This is no more unkind than explaining to a 14yo who wants to be a doctor that they will need top GCSEs and A-levels. It''s taking it seriously and being honest. She is of an age where she needs to start prioritising and making choices.
My nephew is a musician and at this age was practising for several hours a day after school without prompting, writing music himself, listening to all the performers he could get to hear. He is just about to graduate from conservatoire now. His parents did pay for a good teacher and a quality instrument, but those lessons would have been cut (and his teacher would have refused to teach him) if he hadn't done the work.
My dd by this age had decided she wanted to be an actress. Early training is less important for acting and there were financial constraints, but again she put a lot of effort into her drama classes, did a lot of research of her own, and took every opportunity to find out how others were doing it who were further along than her. She will be graduating from (adult) drama school next year.
It would probably help your dd to follow some older dance students on twitter or similar and find out what kind of a life she would be committing herself to. Don't know much about dancing, but for acting dd often works a 10hr day at school and then goes home to do her home-work. You need to want to do the work to survive.

@corythatwas I wholeheartedly agree with your post. DD tends to shut me off when I try to explain. I was about to send an email to say she wouldn't be continuing her associate classes and she asked me not to send it. I did say it's very hard work and competitive and many girls her age are already training full time so she will need to be committed to training.

I'm wondering if it's just the way she is. Her cousin told her that their grandparents think she doesn't like dancing because she never talks about it, even when they are taking her to lessons. She doesn't talk much about it or even like watching dance on TV. I have tried to watch things on sky arts with her when she was younger adn she would refuse.

Of course people are different. It is also possible that she is simply scared of the pressure. My nephew didn't ever mention wanting to be a professional musician until he had actually got into conservatoire. We did wonder as we saw him work longer and longer hours...

(Keeps coming back to the hours, though, doesn't it?)

I'd say, have a look at how much of a sacrifice the current set-up is.
Is it something you can afford to do without feeling resentment if your dd doesn't push herself?

I think all sensible parents who make this kind of sacrifice are aware that it may come to nothing anyway because of the sheer level of competition- but that is easier not to resent. I didn't resent it when dd failed auditions because fair do's, she'd done the work. If I had been wealthy I might not have resented it anyway, because it was a nice thing to give.

If you feel you would resent it if your dd didn't put the work in, that is a fair conversation to have. I would show some understanding of the scariness of it, and try to come to some arrangement that feels like a win-win for both of you.

The lack of interest in dance in general would say to me that she likes her lessons but she’s unlikely to make it into a career. Vocational kids usually live and breathe the dance world.

Is she enthusiastic about anything else OP or was it she is good at dance, it comes easily to her and she is going along with it?

My much younger DC is good (enough) at a sport yet frequently says they don’t want to go anymore. When they first said this, I tried to encourage them to continue thinking it was a good confidence builder for them. When they said it again, I agreed it wasn’t worth doing something they were not happy in and we would look for a different sport that they might like more. Despite many reassurances, DC then claimed I was saying that because I didn’t think they were good at the first sport and was adamant not to give it up and still does it.

Despite being good at almost all they try, DC lacks enthusiasm for everything. I feel they want to be top but not put in the work.

I’m following this thread with great interest because I think I will be in a similar situation in a few years time

Do you know much about BOA OP?

Especially for post - 16 they do many many different courses to do with the industry and it is very different to going to ballet school - elmhurst for example.

In general though I do agree that is sounds like she doesn’t have the drive for it. Maybe suggest doing less dance and see what she says?

Interesting point by Alongcameacat. Suspect it is quite easy, if you shine at something like this, to feel you ought to want to make it your career, because so many people aren't lucky enough to have that talent. But however talented, you also need the strength to cope with criticism and self-doubt.

When dd did the audition residential at Guilford as a 17yo, they ended the weekend with a mock audition. When it came to dd's turn, the tutor looked straight at her and asked: "What would you say if I told you you have absolutely no talent and should give this up?" Dd took a deep breath and answered that of course she respected his opinion but this was something she really wanted and she would still like to try. That, I think, is the attitude you need to cope with training, let alone a career, in performing arts. You need to have the talent but you also need to carry on working when you doubt that talent.

The lack of interest in dance in general would say to me that she likes her lessons but she’s unlikely to make it into a career. Vocational kids usually live and breathe the dance world.

Yes I agree, there's a young dancer we met at an EYB audition 5 years ago. She's now at Tring and I can see form her Instagram she is passionate about dance.

I have decided to carry on for this year, I have warned her that if she doesn't want to attend associates because of sleepovers and party invitations I will sanction her pocket money and possibly Christmas presents. I am on a low income so a lot of money goes on her classes. Her sibling doesn't do activities so doesn't get as much spent on him.

I think she knows if she's serious she will have to put the hours in this year.

Do you know much about BOA OP?
Especially for post - 16 they do many many different courses to do with the industry and it is very different to going to ballet school - elmhurst for example.

A couple of the seniors at her dance school attended BOA, I know of another local girl who got into Urdang after BOA.

Is she enthusiastic about anything else OP or was it she is good at dance, it comes easily to her and she is going along with it?

She is very good at doing make up, I think a course in media make up would be good for her. She is quite sporty and very strong for her size. I sometimes wish she would take up football as there's much less competition.

Could you enrol her in a make up artist course? There are dozens available including weekends and night courses.
The reality is she may end up sitting at a nail bar in a shopping centre as a livelihood though.

Tbh, regardless of any talent they have - if indeed any at all, I am going to encourage my kids to go to uni if at all possible. Once they have the insurance of a degree, they can do whatever they like.

Alongcameacat, the problem with that is that to become a dancer or a musician, you really do need to start young. Acting is more forgiving.

Yes, of course anyone can tell their children they'd prefer them not to become a dancer or a violinist. But to tell them that they can start training when they're in their 20s- no, that's not going to work. If we want music and dancing in the world, then some people have to start young (and be very driven indeed).

Also, I really wouldn't regard a degree on its own as an insurance these days: most degrees need to be combined with a proper career plan and some hard work put in researching and adapting yourself to a certain job.

Agree that the makeup course sounds a nice idea, but (as you suggest) to take it beyond the very basic badly paid jobs, you also need a combination of luck and hard graft.