Could anyone musical explain this about transposing instruments please?

[zasknbg]

I have got very confused! I help my DC with their music by playing along on the piano. Not an accompaniment, I just am trying to play their line of music at the same pitch to help them stay in time and get the correct notes.

So: E flat alto saxophone reading treble clef plays a C as written in saxophone music. If you want to play the same note on the piano, you play the E flat that is lower than the C. I get this, I hope!

But: E flat tuba reading bass clef plays a C as written in tuba music. The note that matches this on the piano appears to be the F that is lower than the C written in the music. (I am not sure if this is correct)

Could anyone help me, if both instruments are in E flat and they both play a C (albeit from different clefs), why the piano must play E flat to match the saxophone and F to match the tuba?

Thanks for any help!

Yep definitely tuba in E-flat and notation in F.

Whether that's common or not I'll have to leave to the tuba players! Do you happen to know what instrument his teacher specialises in?

His teacher is a trombone player (but as it’s holidays we don’t have any lessons).

Get your dc to play a c, then find the corresponding note on piano. What is it?

Stevie, it was in the OP, the C sounds F. And in the posted extract the B-flat sounds E-flat, which is consistent; and is played open which is consistent with it being an E-flat tuba. So they're playing an E-flat instrument using notation in F.

Not a tuba player, but I think I may have worked out what is going on.

I think they have been taught to play an Eb instrument as if it is a Bb instrument. I think an orchestral tuba is most commonly a Bb instrument. When reading bass clef, tuba is not usually treated as a transposing instrument, so if reading a written Bb, that would be played with no valves down, and would sound as Bb on a Bb instrument. However if you then play the same thing on an Eb instrument, it will sound a fifth lower.

Ask your youngster how they would finger the arpeggio written CEGC in bass clef. If the answer is 4/13, 2, 12, 1, then my theory above is correct. If so, you need to have some discussions with the teacher, as the fingering they are being taught will never work if they play in an ensemble. Search Eb tuba fingering chart and you'll get the right fingerings for the instrument.

In brass bands, bass (tuba) players play off treble clef music, as transposing instruments, and they all finger a written C with no valves, and it comes out as Eb/Bb depending; the parts are labelled accordingly.

Aah, that makes sense lanthanum. Hence they are effectively reading in F, a fifth lower, because on a B-flat instrument they'd be reading in C as expected. Well figured out!

(I'd be inclined to ask about some discount on his lessons, if he's now going to have to start over again on learning fingerings because they've taught him the wrong ones.)

I was just coming to throw my tuppence in, but it looks like lanthanum has got there ahead of me.

It very unusual for a brass instrument to transpose in bass clef (except for the horns when they are playing extra low). And brass band tubas usually play in a transposing treble clef (The only instruments that play in bass clef in the average brass band are the trombones and tympani).

Definitely needs a word with the teacher...

Maybe teacher moves them to a B-flat instrument at some point then they're set up ready for ensembles?