Should we let her give up?

[Meesh77]

DD2 is 9 years old. She’s been learning piano for two years and is working towards her grade 1.

Older sister also learns the piano. She had a few wobbles and wanted to give up when she was 10-11 but was persuaded to persevere and is glad she did.

My younger daughter is much less inclined to practice. She’s the same with homework - it’s like pulling teeth. They are basically very different children but with (I believe) similar ability. They differ in work ethic and perseverance.

DD2 wants to give up piano. She looks utterly fed up whenever she practices. Have discussed with the teacher, who feels she performs well in lessons and appears to enjoy them.

My inclination is to insist that she completes grade 1, which she has agreed to. She is a child who gives up when she feels challenged, unless it’s something she wants to do - in which case she is the most persistent child you can imagine.

I don’t want to teach her that it’s ok to give up when things get tough, but I also don’t want her to be miserable.

Ironically, the reason we ever considered piano lessons (which you will understand are not cheap, and have necessitated the purchase of a piano) is because DD2 was always very tuneful. She has always sung, and she sings beautifully. She has private lessons and the teacher agrees she has a lovely voice. She was very small when we first noticed this, hence we anticipated she might want music lessons and offered these to DD1 first when she got to the right age, just so that they were given the same opportunities.

It’s ironic really that DD1 has thrived whereas our ‘musical’ DD2 seems to hate it so much. I personally think it’s the discipline of it that she dislikes so much, however I think this is good for her (rather forgetful and chaotic) little mind and the teacher is a good role model.

Any thoughts?

Yep, do the grade 1 and then see if she might prefer to learn another instrument, join a choir or have singing lessons. Piano is very useful, but not right for everyone.

Let her just continue with the singing lessons. My DD1 has just given up the instrument she was learning for three years. She rarely practiced and whilst enjoyed her lessons she just wasn’t that into it.

She has also had singing lessons all this time which she adores - the contrast was immense. She sings from the moment she gets up in the morning until she goes to bed. She has since joined another choir (now in 2, one of which is audition entry) and lives every minute.

I agree with seeing it through to a natural break point but don’t force it. It will breed resentment and all the joy that comes from making music will be lost.

Question: how long has she been working on grade 1? Only she sounds a little like DS. He isn't a great practiser so the working on grade 1 took a good while and we were all thoroughly fed up of the pieces. After grade 1 with some new and fun pieces to learn and a great result he was a lot happier again.

If I were you I'd get to the exam then have some serious conversation about how she'd like to go forward. Does she want to try a different instrument? (Guitar to go with the singing maybe?) Or a different teacher? Or more fun music instead of exams? Or does she really want to just do singing for now? Doing the grade 1 would be a good stopping point so it didn't feel like giving up.

Thanks for your replies, you all seem to agree.

She took a full year to do the prep test, I think she’s been doing grade 1 since January this year. Her pace seems to be the same roughly as DD1, though DD1 started when she was 8 and DD2 at 7.

DD1 would practice and get frustrated. She always had to be nagged to practice, however with maturity she no longer needs this and takes pride in working towards exams. She’s working towards grade 4 and had distinctions at all grades.

DD2 differs in character and is very easily and quickly frustrated. I watched her getting wound up trying to fit some Playmobil pieces together today, whereas DD1 would have been more pragmatic (or asked for help).

I think perhaps I’m struggling with the idea that DD2 doesn’t fit the same mould as DD1, who is high flying academically, patient and diligent.

On the other hand, DD2 is charismatic, confident and determined in a way that her sister isn’t. All excellent qualities, but sometimes more challenging to manage, and I worry that she won’t reach her academic potential due to lack of perseverance and commitment. I suspect however that she will be successful in whatever she chooses to do with her life.

I don’t want to quash her character, but I don’t want opportunities to pass her by, either. She has a beautiful voice; I wonder how you go about auditioning for a choir - does anybody know?

mine have very different work ethics too. I also have little idea what to do about it but have got them the Confidence Code for Girls and You Are Awesome as they seem to be about a growth mindset and learning to fail in order to reach your goals (at least I think that is what they are about) as well as build confidence. I think my youngest is like yours (and I was too as a child) and fears not being able to do it or making mistakes. I used to refuse to practice the piano if anyone was around as I didn't want them hearing me. I still only play if I am the only one in the house.

That’s an interesting perspective. It’s better than thinking she’s bloody lazy!!

I’ll have a look at that book

I mean how long has she been doing the grade 1 pieces? Or is that not what you meant by working towards?
I'd ask the singing teacher if she knows of a suitable choir in the first place. Or any local churches that have a girls/mixed choir if the religious aspect isn't a problem? We're not a religious family at all but my siblings both enjoyed church choirs.

As a child I had piano lessons for years and didn't even get to grade 1. I was terrible at it and didn't like it. Then I took up clarinet which I much preferred and got to grade 8.
If it's an option, I'd let her try something else. I think different people are naturally suited to different instruments.

She’s been working towards her pieces/scales since January. Teacher thinks there’s no reason she won’t pass, and I trust her opinion, she’s very experienced (and amazing!). She already sings in the school choir and wants to give it up because she doesn’t like singing church songs. I Winfred about something less religious - good suggestion to ask the piano teacher

Oh gosh, same pieces since January? No wonder she's fed up. DS was thoroughly fed up by exam in March starting in September. I would definitely see if she feels the same playing some different pieces after the exam. I'm thinking of asking for DS not to take any more exams for now actually, the amount he practises it's such a long slog, and then he gets fed up and practises even less. I much prefer when they take exams at a level where the music is easy for them not a 6 month+ project.

My elder daughter passed one grade per year, which I think is about right? She’s done other pieces, not just the exam ones.

One grade per year is fine; what I don't like is spending so long on the same pieces. But if she has had other music alongside maybe not so bad. DS had exam music and only exam music for 6 months, I think that's too much. I'd rather they started on exams a bit later or did more other stuff in between so the exam music was closer to sight reading level rather than 6 months work level iyswim?

Yes, I see - the teacher always seems to given them a break before starting exam pieces. Perhaps 6-10 weeks of learning other things before starting a new syllabus.

:o that's not enough time off. I'd like more 9 months of playing other stuff, then 3 months of exam pieces if they're ready for the next grade, or more other stuff if they're not, or leave it a little longer and skip a grade if they're doing particularly well. If she's only giving them 6-10 weeks off then they're playing exam pieces at least 2/3 of the time if 10 weeks is a term and probably more counting holidays. And they're bound to take ages to learn them as they are jumping straight to the next level rather than working up to it. I'm not liking the sound of this teacher.

That was supposed to be a shock smiley not a laughing one. That is really little time off.

She’s lovely you know. But very focussed and proper, perfect for my elder girl, maybe not great for my little one?

As a possibly different model, DS's music teacher (not piano) has always introduced him to a huge range of different pieces - some 'just to play for a couple of weeks', some worked on over a longer time frame. After a while, it emerges that a couple of these pieces, or similar ones, could be exam pieces (and I genuinely never know until I start hearing those few pieces more intensively), and then he takes the exam within a month or 2. Until his final grades - needed for application purposes - he has also always been well at, or above, the standard needed for the exam 'You are at G6 standard now, as most of your pieces are that standard or above' before even starting to focus on the exam pieces. Overall, he has done 6 exams on 2 instruments, including 2x Grade 8 exams, but his repertoire and sight reading (and also improvisation - jazz being his preferred genre) are great, much better than they would have been after a linear slog through exam pieces.

And importantly, he has LOVED it. Piano is a lonely instrument, too - groups can be a great motivator. Do you have a local youth music service with a choir?

The only possible excuse for playing the exam pieces for so long with such a short break would be if each is worked on alongside a large range of 'shorter term' pieces - so she has say 3 pieces on the go at once, only one of which is an exam piece, then moves on to next exam piece alongside a rotating set of other pieces and so on...

I haven’t a clue about these things, as I never had chance to play an instrument, however my nephew has whizzed through grades on a different instrument (the cornet) - I think he started 2 years ago and is at grade 6. He’s 10. Does piano just take longer?

It does vary somewhat by instrument, I believe - the first grades are harder on stringed instruments than on wind instruments, as I understand it. However, if 'preparing for each exam' is taking 9 months of every year playing, then that could be delaying progress. So if a child is capable of playing Grade 1 standard pieces well, but then spends 9 months preparing 'the exam pieces', then those 9 months could be spent on a range of pieces that would help them to reach a higher standard faster. On the other hand, if the exam pieces are being used as the only teaching tool 'to get the child to Grade 1 standard', then not taking so many exams (you really don't have to do them all one after the other) won't accelerate progress, but might make the process of getting to each standard MUCH more interesting, because the teaching can be done with a much wider repertoire.

Brass players may disagree but I do think it's something that can go quickly if you have a knack for it. For sure if he's got to grade 6 in two years it's unlikely he's actually sat all the exams. Sure your teacher is a lovely person. I'm afraid I wouldn't really describe that as proper music teaching and would be concerned your DD's aren't learning enough other music to actually become competent pianists. I'm a tad concerned about DS's teacher from that perspective but at least they have 6 months off exam music. Exams are supposed to be a check that you've reached a certain standard, not a teaching syllabus in themselves.

I might have it wrong about exactly what they do in lessons; just seems to have been doing the same pieces for a long while. The teacher is very very well qualified, very highly regarded locally and with a long waiting list. I don’t doubt her teaching or her instincts. If I said any more I’d out her!

Really sorry to sound negative. It's just you said you're not musical, I play myself and know lots of music teachers and they all think that going from exam to exam like this is a really bad idea. So I thought you ought to be warned this isn't the normal way of learning an instrument. If other musicians recommend her she must have something going for her; if other parents do, it may just be because they see the exam progress like you.
Can I make a different suggestion? You could ask DD2 if she'd like to try learning with a different teacher and not take exams for now. It seems a shame to just give up when she's seen so little of the fun side of piano. See how she gets on and how her musical skills progress. You might just be converted, but at least you'd be giving DD2 a chance to find a method that suits her better.

Get to Grade 1 so she has proof of her hard work and a certificate. Then discuss what she wants to do.

What does she like singing? What does she listen to? Might she be interested in guitar to sing to or just focusing on her singing? Does she like to write her own songs? Does she like to dance?

I don't think it's right ot make her keep doing piano just because her very different sister likes it.