August Music Thread

[Wafflenose]

Welcome to the new music thread for August - a place to discuss anything you like to do with learning instruments/ singing. We have child and adult learners on here, and all standards from toddlers experimenting with music to the very advanced.

It's coming up to 7 years since I started the first thread, and I have been flagging a bit lately due to a long illness. When I started the first one, my daughter Goo had just turned 6 and was about to take her Grade 1 recorder exam! She is now 12 (13 in two months), has done her Grade 8 Flute (result currently under appeal), is thinking about Grade 8 Recorder next year (having not played since Year 6) and is learning the piano. Piano hasn't gone well this term. Her teacher has been going on lots of last minute holidays and also has another job now, so Goo has only had two piano lessons since Easter. Teacher has now decided to retire from teaching, so we need to find a new one. Goo has never, ever performed on the piano and hasn't taken any exams either. She has been learning since she was 10, and was recently learning pieces by Bach and Chopin, although I have no idea what she is practising at the moment.

I also have Rara (10) who plays the cello, clarinet and recorder at a good Grade 4 level. It doesn't come naturally to her at all, but she's more inclined to work at things... when it suits her. She plays the clarinet most, but swears she's in love with the cello. Her bass clef reading definitely seems stronger. We have started and stopped theory three times. I think she is more than capable of doing it, but she's distractible, longwinded and feels the need to reinvent the wheel. I have decided to wait until she's ready to do the whole lot in one go... hopefully when she is a bit more mature and developmentally ready. Goo had it done and dusted at the same age and I find it hard not to worry about Rara at times, but in many ways she's just as able... but on her own timeline.

I usually have 80-90 woodwind pupils on my books - mostly recorder these days, although I'm a clarinettist really. I currently have a clutch of little clarinets, a couple of flutes and a good saxophone pupil, so plenty of variety.

Very true Mistigri - the difference between DS1's interest in music theory now and his grudging resentment of g5 abrsm theory are very marked indeed!
I am so impressed with your DS's progress in piano, though - just amazing!

No experience of guitars and theory but ds started drums 18 months before he started piano and his rhythm understanding was a massive help. Not really suprising but if he wasnt my youngest child id definitely start the next on percussion. He's the only one of my kids i havent har the 'the right note i the wrong place is the wrong note' discussion with

Trumpet, DS's teacher took grade 8 a year after she took grade 5. She says she wonders what the benefit was, looking back, because she then had to spend time making up various musical and technical aspects she'd skipped in doing so. ( She went to the Purcell School, then the RAM and is now a member of one of the BBC orchestras, so hardly unsuccessful!). She talks about someone she knows, also a cellist, who waited until 16 to take grade 8 and then followed a similar career path, getting a job in one of the London orchestras soon after leaving college - so taking it later did no harm and may we'll have been beneficial.
Many years ago, when it was much less common, I got grade 8 distinction at 12, after only learning for 3 years, taught by a peri flute teacher, and with completely non-musical parents. I started at JD the following term but a lot of the other students were working towards the higher grades, so there was a sense of treading water for me for a while.
I went on to take grade 8 piano at 19, having started lessons at 12, and actually got a higher mark than in flute, which might have been down to my greater musical knowledge and experience by then

Really interesting Floot . I think you just need ( with your teacher) to choose a path that suits you best at the time . I'm sure he will take his grade 8 next year , probably to make it a bit more straightforward to apply to advanced ensembles - but who knows he has a habit of surprising me.
For now though I have to find him a new piano teacher as his is now stopping to pursue further study which is amazing . She's still teaching dd which is great as she's lovely . He'll just have to motivate himself for a while whilst I sort it out !! Always a bit tricky though as he shows real promise on the piano - but for now at least it is very much his second instrument so that can be a bit frustrating for any teacher he has as I think they can see how much progress he could make really!! If he put the hours in

Trumpet we have exactly the same situation here - trial with new piano teacher next week and I'm going to have to really manage his expectations as we just can't put the time in what with violin, viola and secondary school.... she has such musicality and a lovely touch so it is very frustrating for her piano teacher to know she will never reach her potential on the instrument. I just need her to be competent!

Folk yes that's where we are too but I'm away now till September so I shall have to hunt for a teacher then !!

I assume managing teacher's expectation is easier with new teacher as you can make it very clear where they stand from the start. Plus, I kind of expect piano teachers must be used to be teaching as a supporting study?

I think it can be trickier with existent teacher though. We never discussed our priority with DS's first teachers (both violin and piano) simply because we didn't know the existence of ordering studies (we are non musical family) and DS was learning whatever as he pleased. I only encountered such question when I had to fill application form for JD which I had to ask them the meaning! DS started piano first and also it was a lot more formal than violin which he was learning at school, no exam, just messing around with friends, so I kind of thought piano would be a more 'proper' instrument for him. However JD replied to my question telling me to write down the one he liked most and wanted to study further and deeper as his 1st study. He always preferred violin so at that point violin became his 1st study.

DS played violin as his 1st and piano as his 2nd at the auditions and JD offered joint first study but we turned it down and even didn't apply for piano study there so DS carried on learning piano with his old and first piano teacher and started learning violin with the new teacher at JD. The new violin teacher asked us a couple of times which one was his first study. She seemed to want it clear if violin was his main or not. So the priority was super clear with her from the very beginning.

We ended up not discussing about priority at all with the piano teacher. We just didn't have a chance or right timing to discuss such things. I wasn't sure if it was supposed to inform 'officially' neither. But securing piano practice became a lot less important especially when DS was busy with many other things and there were times when I felt a bit awkward due to the uncertainty and the lack of understanding of the whole picture on the teacher's side. The teacher sensed though and seemed to understand and became more accommodating towards the end.

DS is starting with new piano teachers from September (one at JD and another at school - a long story!). They are both a lot higher ranked teachers than the old teacher (title-wise, don't know the quality yet!) but there won't be a problem with managing their expectation as they know DS is learning piano as a supporting study from the beginning.

Totally agree with the benefit of starting on percussion.

Patrick - glad that the piano situation is sorted out for your DS, and that he is continuing seriously (albeit as a supporting study). I made the choice that violin would be my first instrument at your DS’s age or a little older. But I did continue with the piano fairly seriously - getting to the point of being able to perform the Schumann concerto as a teenager. I get huge satisfaction from playing the piano, even now I am quite rubbish .

The prodigy discussion is fascinating. I did hear a recital given by a true prodigy once: Chloe Hanslip, when she was in her early teens. Her playing has become more commanding as she has grown up. However, at the time I heard her, it had a wonderful freshness and courage, which is partly a product of youth. The finger gymnastics were remarkable, but her almost improvisary performance of a Mozart adagio has shaped how I think about classical slow movements. Adult musicians have much to learn from prodigies - as well as vice versa. Just my opinion anyhow...

Patrick, two piano teachers? That'll be an interesting dynamic, do you (or rather the teachers) have a plan how to coordinate it? Will he also be playing violin at JD so he can do ensembles?

Taggie, very impressed you could play concertos on your second instrument! My piano is more of the scraped grade 8 but not technically proficient enough to be musical school of thought mentioned upthread, luckily had a very tolerant piano teacher. Glad I learned though, it's fun to be able to do duets and accompaniments with the kids, and was v helpful for A-level.

Does anybody know anything about Lutes?
I found some basic info but I'm not sure I was looking at the right type.
Something about different types for different time periods, I'm looking for Baroque.
You know what they say ..... If it's not Baroque..... sorry, couldn't resist.

I don't know anything really about lutes, just played some lute music as a classical guitarist at school. An old family friend makes them, ( among other instruments) including the theorbo which is huge!

Hi all, can anyone possibly suggest a great (but reasonably priced) violin case for our full size violin and also where you got it from?
I have been googling all afternoon, but can't quite find 'the one'

Thank you

Noo has a 3/4 'Tom and Will' one, which we are perfectly happy with. I guess it depends on the value of the instrument going in it... When she gets her full size violin I will probably go for GEWA at that point.

catkind, not ideal I know but JD and school seem to see it doable. It's just one term and from January DS will have just one piano teacher (school's). Violin, on the other hand, is not allowed to have more than one teacher (for obvious reason). DS can take all group sessions like orchestras and ensembles but no 1-1 lessons at JD. Again it's just one term, and he will stop JD completely thereafter. He has to prioritise school commitments on Saturdays.

DS has GEWA for his full size violin. We are very happy with it.

Highs and lows, musically, this week.
DH has finally got an electronic drum kit, which means he can practise at home for the first time since we've lived here ( 19 years!). He is an orchestral percussionist, but kit was his first love as a child. He tried to teach a lesson to a beginner at home on a proper kit recently but our neighbour complained, so he drove a 300 mile round trip in an afternoon this week to pick up the electronic kit.

Likewise, I've waited 19 years to have a piano in the house - until we had an extension built last year, there just wasn't proper room for one. I got grade 8 as a teenager ( 2nd study) and use piano in lessons for aural, theory and accompanying, so seeing my new piano arrive on Wednesday was a dream come true. However, our neighbour has already complained in a pretty aggressive way.
Admittedly, we are in a semi-detached house and the piano is in a room that has her lounge on the other side, but it's not on the party wall - the back of the piano is against our staircase wall.

It's upsetting because we have always tried to be good neighbours, bending over backwards to keep her and her now deceased husband happy, even when their requests have been somewhat unreasonable. During the build last year, we constantly checked that she was ok, took flowers to apologise for the noise, had our builders do a couple of small jobs for her etc. She knows music is our livelihood and that the extension was to allow us to teach from home. Worst of all, she didn't actually come round to talk about any potential noise issue from the piano, but simply waited until DH was in the garden last night before shouting at him and then walking away, slamming the door behind her, less than 36 hours after the piano arrived.

Oh no Floot I don't think you've done anything wrong though and it sounds like you are trying to be considerate . We moved so that Ds could practise his trumpet !! But we were in a terrace and you simply couldn't escape the noise !! We still can't but at least the neighbours cant hear it ( much !!) now . I think if the piano was on the party wall that would be different but it's not . If no noise from your neighbours is important then your neighbour should live in a detached house in a field somewhere . As most of us can't do that we all just have to learn to get on- and you sound like you were lovely when you did your building work. I'm currently feeling really guilty that our neighbours are having to put up with so much noise from our builders - thankfully I think think they are moving into quiet tasks now and we will be bringing them all back from our holiday !! Plus having a party when it's finished !!

@Floottoot you are not the one being unreasonable here. She sounds like a grumpy cantankerous old bat that has nothing better to do. To me, this would be like waving red tag to a bull! But I'm guessing from the fact you have been so considerate thus far that you are keen to keep the peace. You are perfectly within your rights to own a piano and to make music in your own home - as long as it's within 'reasonable' hours (ie not bashing out a la Jamie Cullum at 2.30am....) then she's just going to have to get over it.

Buy a pretty card and a cake, politely explain your position and reassure her that you intend to be as considerate as you always have been, and then let her get over it x

phamously dd1 also has a gewa case - a luiteria one. It is fairly heavy but seems to be doing a good job of keeping the violin safe.

floot neighbour problems are a pain but you are not being unreasonable. Does your local environmental health have mouse guidelines you could refer to og your neighbour doesnt get over herself?

Floot your neighbour sounds like someone who likes to complain. She is already complaining about 'potential' noise of the piano, not actual noise tells me she is being unreasonable not you. Seems you are being very patient and considerate.

Spoke to DD violin teacher, and she is happy to go ahead with NCO auditions - seems there is no longer a training orchestra, so she will audition for u10's. Not sure of pieces yet...possibly one of the gr4 from recent exam and a suzuki book 3 piece. Any advice gladly welcomed. DD is quite aware she is not likely to achieve the level they are looking for but no harm in audition experience. A friend has stressed to me that the level is high. Will there be feedback given at the audition as with festivals?

Found a piano teacher to trial in September for 2nd instrument...no piano yet though. We'll have to start with a digital as we don't have space for an acoustic.

Also suffering from lack of sleep as DD2 is teething and had high temp all night

Oh goodness druid im suddenly very glad i live in the middle of nowhere! I was feeling a tad sorry for myself driving the girls 2 hours each way daily for a summer music course last week but at least we have no neighbours to complain about practise.....

Yeah i get it now

Sorry to hear that floot. Could you try to agree a time when you can play? The advice on consulting environmental health pre-emptively is excellent.

owln definitely a good idea to pick pieces your DD is secure with. We did not do that, and it was a super stressful experience, although DS2 did get in. This time round he is playing one piece he has already performed in a master class and another, he should be okay with, I think! You get the result and feedback several weeks later. They don’t say anything much in the audition.